111 replies to this topic

[Kraven Kor]

90% of the time that I am not dropping with FWLM - when I'm PUGgin - there are no major issues, but there are one or two players who are not sure how to pilot, or AFK, or whatever.

I don't get mad about it, but it is pretty much "Yup, I'm gonna lose this one" when that occurs. However, sometimes we still pull it together - whether I make any attempt to do so or just follow the herd - despite that.

It does however just make me want the full 8-man queue ASAP, because then I know for a fact I won't have to worry about "those players." I will have only myself and my known team to blame if we lose, or be proud of if we win.

[JimSuperBleeder]

I feel the term "noob" and "pug" are meshing together and that needs to stop.

Most if not all noobs are pugs; but not all pugs are noobs.

I don't mind being called a pug because that's all I do, just not when it has a greater negative connotation that it does.

[Sevaradan]

KingNobody, on 30 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

So, you refuse to help anyone, despite the fact that that sort of attitude runs contrary to every system of ethics ever devised (except maybe Randian egoism, but that's more of an unethical system) and also flies in the face of the concept of enlightened self interest? That is truly sad, and you have larger problems than with whom you are grouped in a computer game.

While leading a lance I'm already doing 3-4 things at once (trying to gain situation awareness, leading my lance, piloting my mech, trying to wrangle pugs etc) I have 0 time to teach some random, my guys I'll critique post match and discuss performance and improve/sustains etc, but in match I cannot and will not train randoms with out affecting my performance in another more critical task. There's only so many tasks I can perform at once.

[kapinga]

KingNobody, on 30 November 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I agree with the previous post that the worst thing in this game is the PUG/premade hostility. Whether that is caused by the snide derision and undeserved self-importance of premade players, or the stubbornness and lack of skill of PUGs seems to be at the center of the debate.

I play STO and am a member of one of the largest fleets on the server, and that has taught me that tight communication, focused fire, and adherance to a plan is the primary deciding factor in whether or not a team wins or loses. It is rarely a question of individual player skill. I agree with previous posters that when this communication gap is removed (such as when c3 comms are changed to include all members of a team whether they are in a group or not) we will see a much more even playing field, and the difference between premade and PUG will become trivial. I believe that expansion of the c3 system is the ONLY fix required to solve this problem, and separate queues for PUGs and premades are unnecessary.


edit: more posts while I was writing this, when I say "previous post" it no longer refers to the immediately preceding post lol

[kapinga]

I agree with Kingnobody, i pug cuz i think its rediculus to drop with a team of 4 in an 8 man team, once c3 is fully integrated so all team members can comunicate with one another everyone will see a big difference. I would assume to say there are peeps running a mech for the very first time ever. its not there fault there is no training arena, the only reason i can run my mech is because i played mecwarrior 1,2,3,4 even tho i was rusty i new how to drive , and now my performance is up , and i know it will get better with c3. so smoke some weed and mellow out.
have fun all thats the main point!
Kapinga out

[Sevaradan]

kapinga, on 30 November 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

once c3 is fully integrated so all team members can comunicate with one another everyone will see a big difference.

nope, pugglings even once they are c3 equipped pugglings will still be pure fail and get pwnd by premades.

[Catamount]

I think a critical point here is that too little distinction is being made between being bad and bad incoordinated.

PuGs aren't bad players; they're bad team players. This works out fine when the other team is equally uncoordinated and unfocused (which is typical in many matches I see), but when one team has even the first hint of some kind of overall focus, the other gets steamrolled.


I don't even think it's entirely the fault of the pugs themselves; I think it's largely just the lack of easy tools in-game. Having spent years playing Battlefield 2142, I've seen just how good and coordinated pugs can be when giving the proper tools. With that said, I also notice there's a tendency, often, for them to not use the tools they have been given. In at least 50% of matches I get into, no one actually even attempts to communicate, and in probably better than 90% of matches, no one communicates competently. I don't even remember the last time I was in a pug match and someone other than me called out targets to focus fire on, and I play about a half dozen pug matches a day to screw around typically (the rest is in premades of course, where one admittedly gets spoiled).

I do think, however, that if the tools for coordination were improved, people would be more willing to try and use them. This is going to be a crucial aspect of how MWO does as a game, since it is, by nature, a team game.


Premades will still do better, typically, mostly because a higher percentage (all) will be team-oriented players instead of lone wolves who get dragged into a team actions, kicking and screaming, but anyone who doesn't think that a pug that actually cares about winning as a team -an admitted minority it seems- and is given even remotely decent tools to communicate can't be a very effective fighting force has not played many team-oriented games.

Edited by Catamount, 30 November 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[kapinga]

oh ya i almost forgot. ive got 78 kills with 806 deaths, been in on 367 wins and 690 losses , i have a kd ratio of 0.10 i dont think thats to bad , since all but 3 drops were a pug drops with no comunication at all cept what info i give as a scout.
Kapinga out

[Sevaradan]

your right, .10 isn't bad its terribad.

[Lefty Lucy]

Sevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

While leading a lance I'm already doing 3-4 things at once (trying to gain situation awareness, leading my lance, piloting my mech, trying to wrangle pugs etc) I have 0 time to teach some random, my guys I'll critique post match and discuss performance and improve/sustains etc, but in match I cannot and will not train randoms with out affecting my performance in another more critical task. There's only so many tasks I can perform at once.

I can do it all and lead the PUGs with text.

L2P.

[dF0X]

Vlad Ward, on 30 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

Bad assumption.

Just because the average K/D ratio is, by definition, 1, does not mean that the average player has a K/D ratio of 1.

A small number of players with K/D ratios in the hundreds are going to push the average player's K/D ratio down below 1.

You're confusing mean with average, but barring that, you've also forgotten the small minority of players whose K/D will be far below 1 due to suiciding, etc.

Also K/D <> Skill. Not even close, not even as a rule of thumb or a guess.

[Sevaradan]

Lefty Lucy, on 30 November 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I can do it all and lead the PUGs with text.

L2P.

as i stated i can lead the pugs i just don't have them to teach them how to play.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Pug + Noob

Poob?

Look we can label people in even a more demeaning way!

Hooray!

I suppose its better than "****"

[Sevaradan]

Vexgrave Lars, on 30 November 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

Pug + Noob

Poob?

Look we can label people in even a more demeaning way!

Hooray!

I suppose its better than "****"

im sure we can find something even more offensive if we put effort into it ( i hope we can )

[BlackBeltJones]

Reading this forum, and this post in particular makes me want to stop playing MWO all together. For any and all complaints I may keep to myself I do love every single second of gameplay. Bugs/PUGs/LRM... you name it - who cares - I want to pilot a mech, albeit badly, and any issues are distant irritants that rarely diminish the joy I receive from playing (getting my face stomped in).
Maybe I'll just stop reading the forum.

[Sevaradan]

BlackBeltJones, on 30 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Reading this forum, and this post in particular makes me want to stop playing MWO all together. For any and all complaints I may keep to myself I do love every single second of gameplay. Bugs/PUGs/LRM... you name it - who cares - I want to pilot a mech, albeit badly, and any issues are distant irritants that rarely diminish the joy I receive from playing (getting my face stomped in).
Maybe I'll just stop reading the forum.

cool have fun being bad we'll be good and be laughing at you.

[BlackAce]

KingNobody, on 30 November 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

So, you refuse to help anyone, despite the fact that that sort of attitude runs contrary to every system of ethics ever devised (except maybe Randian egoism, but that's more of an unethical system) and also flies in the face of the concept of enlightened self interest? That is truly sad, and you have larger problems than with whom you are grouped in a computer game.

Pretty much and here's why: There are 100% FREE team speak servers out there that require neither a microphone or nor clan membership to use. In either server of the most popular, I've never waited longer than 2 minutes to get into a group. Given you're not willing to use it, I'm not willing to help you.

Meet us half way, then we'll talk.

[Bully_Hayes]

Sevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

yes, we know the pug scum exists (got shot in the back by one last match...)

no, its not my job to teach them (unless they join my unit, and end up in my lance...)



I don't know or really care where they come from until they are assigned to my BN, at that point their existence as anything other than a self propelled target begins matter to me

If we "elitists" kill MWO I'm fine with that at least that, at least it means it didn't get ruined by catering to casuals and pugglings. Better a dead game than a ****** one.

You and folks like you are way more of a problem for this community then the puggers ever thought about being !!

[dF0X]

Sevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

cool have fun being bad we'll be good and be laughing at you.

Could you be more of a ****? Could you? Being "good" at MWO is hardly the way to measure oneself. I'm guessing you haven't figured that sort of thing out yet. Pity.

[DraigUK]

4 Pugs who constantly suicide/die within a minute/AFK or simply play really badly, are in fact, ruining the fun of the game for me personally. You may not like that answer but that is my honest viewpoint. Being constantly in games where you can't rely on half of your own team sucks.

Hopefully Tuesday will fix this issue by bringing back 8 mans.