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You Are Wrong About Pug Players.


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#81 AvatarofWhat

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:37 PM

View Postkapinga, on 30 November 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

oh ya i almost forgot. ive got 78 kills with 806 deaths, been in on 367 wins and 690 losses , i have a kd ratio of 0.10 i dont think thats to bad , since all but 3 drops were a pug drops with no comunication at all cept what info i give as a scout.
Kapinga out


Jesus H christ...

I salute you for playing over a thousand matches and not giving up despite having only 78 kills and a .10 k/d ratio. Hang in there, someday you'll get better.

God bless you Kapinga...*sheds single tear*

EDIT-

kapinga said:

so smoke some weed and mellow out.
have fun all thats the main point!

You must play hella blazed...gimme some ;)

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 30 November 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#82 BlackBeltJones

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

View PostSevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

cool ;) have fun being bad we'll be good and be laughing at you.

Why not start a poll to see if you can get PUGs banned? You're obviously passionate about this - do something actionable rather than spewing counter-productive malice.

#83 JimSuperBleeder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

I (key word "I") win most of my games so I don't really care. If anyone has ever seen me in a game its usually a non stop murder train to murder town. HaHuehue!

All pugs have to do is show some initiative and use a cookie cutter strat and not have any rambos; and that is usually enough to stand a chance at winning.

#84 Sevaradan

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostBlackBeltJones, on 30 November 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Why not start a poll to see if you can get PUGs banned? You're obviously passionate about this - do something actionable rather than spewing counter-productive malice.


but i like counter productive malice...

View PostDesrtfox, on 30 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Could you be more of a ****? Could you? Being "good" at MWO is hardly the way to measure oneself. I'm guessing you haven't figured that sort of thing out yet. Pity.


it is a perfectly reasonable way to measure one's success while playing MWO.

View PostJimSuperBleeder, on 30 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

All pugs have to do is show some initiative and use a cookie cutter strat and not have any rambos; and that is usually enough to stand a chance at winning.


this, yet the consistently fail to :/

View PostDesrtfox, on 30 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Could you be more of a ****?


I can try no guarantees though...

Edited by Sevaradan, 30 November 2012 - 04:59 PM.


#85 JimSuperBleeder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostSevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:


this, yet the consistently fail to :/



CORRECT!

#86 Blunder

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

here's a better answer: anyone can be bad and/or a ****. i've seen organized premades lose, and i've seen the entire enemy team as organized streakapaults. the capacity to suck is not limited to those without friends

#87 ball0fire

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:28 PM

TL DR

this is why world of tanks has clan wars and company battles

problem solved


randoms vs randoms

clans/ groups vs clans/ groups

#88 BlackBeltJones

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

View PostSevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:


but i like counter productive malice...



it is a perfectly reasonable way to measure one's success while playing MWO.



this, yet the consistently fail to :/



I can try no guarantees though...

I do love my enemies almost as much as my friends. I am somewhat excited by this burgeoning relationship.

#89 Grugore

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

All I know is that having to play with pugs has taken away a lot of the enjoyment of this game for me. That's personal experience, and you can't argue with that. You can't change how I feel about it. You can't make me feel better. It just is, And I hope and pray that 8vs8 comes out next Tuesday.

#90 Flyby215

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:40 PM

Chock me up as another who despises the "elitist/premade" mentality.

When someone asks "how do I...?" I always smile and help them out as best I can. These people are the future of *our* game and I happily pull more than my own weight in any way to make it more enjoyable for them. Now I fully recognize that my decision to only PUG comes at a price, a steep loss-to-win ratio, and my kill/death ratio is a mere 1.4.

Despite it all, I take a lot of pride in being a PUGer. My lowly C1 catches many by surprise as I regularly top the charts with 600-800+ damage win or loss... which, mind you, is better than the vast majority of premade members. Yes, I must carry far more than my own weight, but I do so with a head held high.

So face me 1v1 if you dare, or all together if you want, PUG stompers and bashers, I'll make at least 1 of you pay before my fiery end!

#91 dF0X

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

View PostSevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:


but i like counter productive malice...



it is a perfectly reasonable way to measure one's success while playing MWO.



this, yet the consistently fail to :/



I can try no guarantees though...



LOL, no, KDR means virtually nothing in a team based game. MWO is no exception.

#92 BlackBeltJones

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

View PostGrugore, on 30 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

All I know is that having to play with pugs has taken away a lot of the enjoyment of this game for me. That's personal experience, and you can't argue with that. You can't change how I feel about it. You can't make me feel better. It just is, And I hope and pray that 8vs8 comes out next Tuesday.

This is important! But please be aware that others feel the exact opposite of you and they are 100% correct too; their experiences and beliefs can't be argued. We can all maintain our beliefs based on our individual experiences and we all deserve latitude for those beliefs but many times attitudes here do not reflect an ounce of compassion (both sides).
These threads remind me of a CS:S match where a angry fellow was screaming and cursing into the mic. Several others tried to calm him down with conversation to which he argued that he was pissed and upset, he also indicated that others get mad and mic spam and curse and yell to which another player responded with "Yeah I get angry and pissed - hell I even curse, I just don't hit the (mic) button".

#93 Accurs3D

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

ITT: PUG=/=PUB.

#94 BlackBeltJones

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:55 PM

View PostSevaradan, on 30 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:


but i like counter productive malice...



it is a perfectly reasonable way to measure one's success while playing MWO.



this, yet the consistently fail to :/



I can try no guarantees though...

Also I was wondering if you ever got your Cloudsong back?

#95 Sevaradan

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostDesrtfox, on 30 November 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:



LOL, no, KDR means virtually nothing in a team based game. MWO is no exception.



I dont remember, but im pretty sure i havent mentioned KD being the sole deterniner of skill?

personally i like wins, i have **** loads of them. (and kills but i like wins moar)

Edited by Sevaradan, 30 November 2012 - 06:05 PM.


#96 Grugore

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:08 PM

View PostBlackBeltJones, on 30 November 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

This is important! But please be aware that others feel the exact opposite of you and they are 100% correct too; their experiences and beliefs can't be argued. We can all maintain our beliefs based on our individual experiences and we all deserve latitude for those beliefs but many times attitudes here do not reflect an ounce of compassion (both sides).
These threads remind me of a CS:S match where a angry fellow was screaming and cursing into the mic. Several others tried to calm him down with conversation to which he argued that he was pissed and upset, he also indicated that others get mad and mic spam and curse and yell to which another player responded with "Yeah I get angry and pissed - hell I even curse, I just don't hit the (mic) button".

Well. Yes. I agree with you on most of that. I just hate the fact that I'm FORCED to play with them. They're not all bad. We have several former pugs in our merc unit that are working out quite nicely. I even pug occasionally to test new mech builds. But for me, the experience has been mostly negative.

#97 BlackBeltJones

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostGrugore, on 30 November 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

Well. Yes. I agree with you on most of that. I just hate the fact that I'm FORCED to play with them. They're not all bad. We have several former pugs in our merc unit that are working out quite nicely. I even pug occasionally to test new mech builds. But for me, the experience has been mostly negative.

Why the heck can't everyone articulate while disagreeing like you do? I want to see more of your posts here even if I don't agree. As per your signature - you may be mean but you're effective with communication.
Personally I think that the TeamChat , when integrated with MWO will resolve almost all these issues as well as create a much more robust platform for clan recruitment.

#98 Jalen

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

I should've kept an exact count of how many matches I've played since June. Let's say a ballpark of over 5,000 matches now. Being generous, I'd say around 100 of the pubbies I've played with over that time have been good, useful or capable players.

Most of my matches have been in premade groups, but I've done my fair share of straight PUG drops too if I'm testing something new and just want to drop real fast and see how it works, or if there aren't any openings in any of our groups. I'd say around 10% of my overall drops have been PUG drops. In the last 8 PUG drops I've done, I'm 0 and 8. Every single time I've been the leader in damage, kills and experience on my team. Every single time I've ranked higher than two to four of the winning team's players. In all but one drop, I've gotten the only kills for the entire team. Now, don't get me wrong here: I am not bragging by any means. I was not a hulking beast in these matches, I was just the only player who did anything at all on my team. In those last 8, I only dropped in my regular mech once, because I just needed 15GXP to unlock a module. The rest were all testing mechs I've never played before, and I still did more than the entirety of my team. Again, it's important to reiterate: It is not because I am that good, it's because they were that bad.

Here's an average match these days. Our group of 4 figure out where each other are, find our wingmen and start moving towards our objective. One of us usually says over the chat that we're a 4 person on comms and what we're planning on doing. 1 of our players has already suicided, another is sitting there AFK for the entire match. The other two will either blindly charge straight ahead or follow whatever mech is in front of them. If the mech in front of them is the other pubbie, they will most likely plow straight into the enemy and attack different targets, while the enemy rips them apart. If the mech in front of them was one of us, they will move with us until they see an enemy mech, at which point they will charge straight to their death, guns a' blazin'. Within two to five minutes, depending on mech speed and map size, we're immediately 4v8 (or 6 or 7, depending on how many of the enemy's pubbies have suicided, gone AFK, or were in a Commando that came streaking directly at us and died instantly).

Since Phase One of this matchmaking garbage, there has been only THREE times that I have been surprised by PUGs who have been effective players. This is something I have kept an exact count of. These three matches had a combined total of seven players (2, 3 and 2) who were good and useful teammates.

So the answer here is that yes, PUGs suck. No matter how you slice it, PUGs suck. There's no argument here to be had.

They might not all mean to, and there truly are some people in PUGs who really are trying and really aren't that bad, but they most certainly are the minority. I don't blame all of them for sucking, just the suicide farmers and AFKers. There's a learning curve here and new players are coming in every single day. Without a real tutorial or training mode for new players it's to be expected.

If I were just coming into this game for the first time and didn't know anything about anything, I would be one incredibly frustrated player. I'd really have to be a fan of the franchise to not give up on it within a week. The best thing a new player could do is find a group to game with. The fun will come from playing with those people, learning things from your teammates, and having a good time despite the entire desk being stacked against you having that good time. Hopefully your teammates won't encourage you to suicide farm, even though it is by far the only sane way to grind through the pure sucky garbage this game is for new players who haven't bought any MC. I report every single suicide farmer I see, but I totally understand why they're doing it. I'm really lucky that I was able to get in on the Founders program and didn't have to grind C-bills to get the mech I wanted. If my only choice was between a miserable playing experience for around 30-50 matches or suicide farming, I'd choose a third option: uninstall and delete.

#99 Cato Phoenix

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:18 PM

We have had some epic pugs.

However, if you group drop, you are 100% assured of having people you are working in a team mindset with, even if they perform poorly you likely know what went wrong.

So with pugs, even 1 or 2 fail-bloggers can sour others' opinions, especially since losing even 1 mech early can hobble a team.

#100 bLaCkMaMbA

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:20 PM

The argument here shouldn't be that if PUGS are bad. Fact is there are a varying degree of skill level in PUGS in terms of some can be elite/great communication, some good, some average, some not too good, some totally new. The problem is the reliability of PUGS since it's totally random.

Understand that many people who are in the "premade" category were just PUG's looking for reliable teammates so they wouldn't have to deal with that varying degree of skill level/cooperation that they can be randomly dealt. In a competive team game with a win or lose result, can you blame them for doing that?... of course not. So all they did was go on to the TS3 server seeking out the higher percentage of the people who wanted what they wanted... reliable teamwork and communication.

PUGS however thought it was unfair that those people were matched up against them when they had the same exact option to do what those people did but chose not to. They were not excluded from that option in any way and the community was really friendly at first in promoting with welcome arms the TS3 server.

The PUGs started complaining and the result was phase 1 matchmaking which punished the teams. That of course made them mad because they basically were punished for seeking out better teammates because they didn't feel randomly assigned PUGs were reliable enough. They basically thought... "how can people be punished for wanting reliable teammates in a team based game?"

Keep in mind that even in premade groups, there were people of varying skill level (good/average/bad/new people) but one thing most of the people who sought premades had in common was that they all wanted communication and were willing to work together the majority of the time. With random PUGs, thats not the case the majority of the time since its totally random.

So to me it all boils down to teammate reliability. Some people sought it out... some wanted to go solo at all costs. However many feel the PUGs should have expected that they will get unreliable teammates in a random PUG environment which would lead to a less successful win/loss ratio. Just because they wanted solo doesn't mean others should have been forced to dismantle their full groups and be forced to play with random PUGs... just doesn't make sense in a team based game.

All this could have been easily fixed with a Solo only queue. This lets the solo people stay with in their area while the solo people who didn't mind going on against teams should have been still allowed on the team queue. Really glad 8v8 is finally returning with guaranteed group vs group battles... it's what Mechwarrior should be and it's what premade's wanted from the very beginning. Contrary to what the PUG community believed, PUG stomping was actually boring for most teams but that was the game at that time... all they did was play with the cards which were dealt to them.

Edited by bLaCkMaMbA, 30 November 2012 - 07:35 PM.






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