124 replies to this topic

[Leetskeet]

Zero Neutral, on 01 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

You are completely incorrect.

The hard points are 1 on each arm, and 1 in the torso, that means that you need to hit with 2 different reticules. Good luck chief. Hope you have a nice engine to close in to range to hit with both reticules...

I almost don't want to reply to you because you're a consistent borderline vegetable, but I'll give you another one.

The reticles mean nothing. They* converge. You line them up, you shoot. It's the same thing as a 3D. They do not cause issues. The issue with arms is when you have a single off center ballistic like the Dragon or Centurion which causes the shot to fling randomly when you're strafing. If you can't aim and wait a tenth of a second for the torso to lock with the arms, then you're bad, there isn't anything difficult about it. There literally almost isn't even a delay if you aren't in the smallest possible engine. You're grasping at every pathetic straw you can find to somehow try to make an argument. It's boring.

Edited by Leetskeet, 01 December 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[Sifright]

Leetskeet, on 01 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

I almost don't want to reply to you because you're a consistent borderline vegetable, but I'll give you another one.

The reticles mean nothing. The converge. You line them up, you shoot. It's the same thing as a 3D. They do not cause issues. The issue with arms is when you have a single off center ballistic like the Dragon or Centurion which causes the shot to fling randomly when you're strafing. If you can't aim and wait a tenth of a second for the torso to lock with the arms, then you're bad, there isn't anything difficult about it. There literally almost isn't even a delay if you aren't in the smallest possible engine. You're grasping at every pathetic straw you can find to somehow try to make an argument. It's boring.

Excellent post.

My favourite bit is where he acts like convergence problems with ballistics doesn't effect every single other weapon in the game in the same way.

Edited by Sifright, 01 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[Leetskeet]

Zero Neutral, on 01 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I hear UAC/5 are great at hitting moving targets too, without moving your arms or torso.

If I really wanted to be firing ballistics from two different reticules, well, I could already be doing so... and no I don't recommend it.

You're almost confirmed bad at this point. Are you actually trying to shoot while you're dragging the two reticles around separately? To play a 3D. Learn to aim. It's not difficult. You line up the shot, wait for the mech to be where you want it, and shoot. They're perfectly aligned. Quit being bad.

[Kobold]

Of course this just leads to a symptom/cause discussion. If the issue is "MOAR UAC = MOAR WIN" then the fix should involve fixing the UAC, not just limiting the mechs that can carry them.

[Sifright]

Kobold, on 01 December 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Of course this just leads to a symptom/cause discussion. If the issue is "MOAR UAC = MOAR WIN" then the fix should involve fixing the UAC, not just limiting the mechs that can carry them.

Thats a highly contentious point.

I'd argue that realistically speaking nerfing the UAC so that it's not really strong in large groups is a bad idea simply because there is no mechanic they can change that won't make it worse for mechs which can only fit a double or single of them.

Simply put if you nerf weapons so that have large numbers of them isn't very strong mechs than can only fit a few of each weapon type. the centurian 9-D comes to mind it's going to struggle because of it's horrid hard points.

[Zero Neutral]

Leetskeet, on 01 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

I almost don't want to reply to you because you're a consistent borderline vegetable, but I'll give you another one.

The reticles mean nothing. They* converge. You line them up, you shoot. It's the same thing as a 3D. They do not cause issues. The issue with arms is when you have a single off center ballistic like the Dragon or Centurion which causes the shot to fling randomly when you're strafing. If you can't aim and wait a tenth of a second for the torso to lock with the arms, then you're bad, there isn't anything difficult about it. There literally almost isn't even a delay if you aren't in the smallest possible engine. You're grasping at every pathetic straw you can find to somehow try to make an argument. It's boring.

Buy the hero mech because you think it's P2W and let us know how it turns out...

If you think it's the bees knees, then go ahead and buy it. I prefer my 4X.

Good luck nub.

Leetskeet, on 01 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

You're almost confirmed bad at this point. Are you actually trying to shoot while you're dragging the two reticles around separately? To play a 3D. Learn to aim. It's not difficult. You line up the shot, wait for the mech to be where you want it, and shoot. They're perfectly aligned. Quit being bad.

Yeh it's totally the way to go /sarcasm.

Do what you want. The hero mech is not P2W.

Go ahead and buy it and you will not win more than you would otherwise...

[Relic1701]

Guys, please....

A new player came and asked a perfectly valid question about how the game plays, and you turn it into a hero mech/convergance/ballistic arguement....

Stick to the topic at hand.

OP....just have fun, the grind is a pain, and the only way to avoid it is paying cash to get a mech or buy premium time. Any of the mechs you buy only with MC, have a lifetime C-bill booster attached to them.

See you on the field

This is a really helpful guide....well worth a read. http://mwomercs.com/...oups-and-teams/

Edited by Relic1701, 01 December 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

Relic1701, on 01 December 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

Guys, please....

A new player came and asked a perfectly valid question about how the game plays, and you turn it into a hero mech/convergance/ballistic arguement....

Stick to the topic at hand.

OP....just have fun, the grind is a pain, and the only way to avoid it is paying cash to get a mech or buy premium time. Any of the mechs you buy only with MC, have a lifetime C-bill booster attached to them.

See you on the field

Yup, the main point is that there is no P2W.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 01 December 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

My number one turn off in this game are all of the whiners... so sad.

Kobold, on 01 December 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Of course this just leads to a symptom/cause discussion. If the issue is "MOAR UAC = MOAR WIN" then the fix should involve fixing the UAC, not just limiting the mechs that can carry them.

Eventually there should be more ammo types for the AC/5 which give it an edge over the UAC/5.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 01 December 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[PhaelanPKell]

Zero Neutral, on 01 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

You can create a group in the group tab, then you invite people from your friend's list. Once every one is in the group, each player's Launch button is replaced with a Ready/Not Ready button. When all players are Ready then the group leader can launch the game.

Thank you excatlly the info I was looking for!

[Laokin]

LaserAngel, on 01 December 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Running certain loadouts with a death and a loss can cost you more in game C-Bills than you earn. Premium makes the game more convenient even when you lose or when working toward a new mech/hardware.

I sincerely hope PGI improves player participation performance C-bill payouts because running a trial mech stupidly still earns more than doing best in your own personal customized mech .

This is not true at all.

I can earn up to 171k in a match with my personal customized mech, where as I'd get around 90 on a trial.

I'm a free loader too, haven't dropped a penny on the game yet.

For the OP's question... things I wish I knew;

XL engines take up slots in the side torso. I bought an XL engine and couldn't figure out how to equip it because I hadn't enough slots in my side torso.

When missile locked, if you break Line of Sight to the spotter the missile will miss despite the "Incoming Missile Warning."

Manual Power Downs make you untargetable my lock on munitions.

Edited by Laokin, 01 December 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[Sifright]

Laokin, on 01 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

This is not true at all.

I can earn up to 171k in a match with my personal customized mech, where as I'd get around 90 on a trial.

I'm a free loader too, haven't dropped a penny on the game yet.

and I can earn 210K on a perfect game in my best personalised mech.

If you don't take into account repair costs though your total victory award means nothing.

If I win do over 1k damage in my A1 SRM6 cat and get killed doing it, I can lose money.

If i play well and torso twist to ensure spread damage and lose my weapon ears and manage to fire the majority of my missiles i'll have a repair bill upwards of 150k....
If i do all that and lose i will be out a rather serious chunk of change.

Which is to say you can lose money even on a win.

Any one saying otherwise is playing energy mechs and has no idea what they are talking about.

Edited by Sifright, 01 December 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Laokin, on 01 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

This is not true at all.

I can earn up to 171k in a match with my personal customized mech, where as I'd get around 90 on a trial.

I'm a free loader too, haven't dropped a penny on the game yet.

I did specifically mention a loss, dying, and a specific loadout. Running out to die in a trial Jenner can net you ~65,000 C-Bills for doing nothing. You can pull off the same with a suicide bot in trial mechs. Now this is a problem!

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 December 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

Sifright, on 01 December 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

and I can earn 210K on a perfect game in my best personalised mech.

If you don't take into account repair costs though your total victory award means nothing.

If I win do over 1k damage in my A1 SRM6 cat and get killed doing it, I can lose money.

If i play well and torso twist to ensure spread damage and lose my weapon ears and manage to fire the majority of my missiles i'll have a repair bill upwards of 150k....
If i do all that and lose i will be out a rather serious chunk of change.

Which is to say you can lose money even on a win.

Any one saying otherwise is playing energy mechs and has no idea what they are talking about.

That can only happen on a full boat and it is a deterrent for full boating.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 01 December 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[Laokin]

Sifright, on 01 December 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

and I can earn 210K on a perfect game in my best personalised mech.

If you don't take into account repair costs though your total victory award means nothing.

If I win do over 1k damage in my A1 SRM6 cat and get killed doing it, I can lose money.

If i play well and torso twist to ensure spread damage and lose my weapon ears and manage to fire the majority of my missiles i'll have a repair bill upwards of 150k....
If i do all that and lose i will be out a rather serious chunk of change.

Which is to say you can lose money even on a win.

Any one saying otherwise is playing energy mechs and has no idea what they are talking about.

I can blow up right off rip, do no damage, and have my team lose in My Cat K2 and still be positive.

Quote

I sincerely hope PGI improves player participation performance C-bill payouts because running a trial mech stupidly still earns more than doing best in your own personal customized mech .

This is what I said was untrue, because it is. Or rather, misleading, because there are a metric ton of viable effective builds that will net you positive gains.

Quote

101,229.69
Accumulative C-Bills Per Match

Straight from my stats page. I haven't been in a trial mech since I got my first mech. I'm all free, never spent a penny. You won't ever get that average in a trial mech.

Furthermore, complete repair and rearm for my build is 32k. And most of that is ammunition.

A free player has 4 mech bays. Stop acting like we only have one. This game isn't about "Piloting my favorite mech" this game is about "piloting my favorite mechs." After all we have a stable of personalized mechs, therefor -- it's clearly designed to steer you into using your entire stable.

Some will be cost effective, others not so much so.

I also didn't say the economy was perfect, just that the one statement was indeed false.

Edited by Laokin, 01 December 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[Sifright]

Laokin, on 01 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I can blow up right off rip, do no damage, and have my team lose in My Cat K2 and still be positive.

Yes and I can make over 180K per match after repair bills in my F variant Jenner.

If you are cherry picking cheap variants of mechs then you are missing the point.

Trust you to pick the one variant of the catapult that has almost no rearming costs by the way

Slightly disingenuous don't you think?

[Laokin]

Sifright, on 01 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Yes and I can make over 180K per match after repair bills in my F variant Jenner.

If you are cherry picking cheap variants of mechs then you are missing the point.

Trust you to pick the one variant of the catapult that has almost no rearming costs by the way

Slightly disingenuous don't you think?

Not at all disingenuous, it was in reply to this statement, which IS disingenuous.

Quote

because running a trial mech stupidly still earns more than doing best in your own personal customized mech .

Try reading the whole thing within it's CONTEXT next time.

I also pilot a Cat-A1 with Fero Fib armor and I still post profits, so I stand behind my original statement regardless.

The statement that was made again, is that Trials are always better than doing the very best in your personalized mech.

I said this is NOT TRUE at all, and then posted an example. How is that disingenuous?

I'm just going to assume you didn't read my entire post, or the post I was replying to.

Edited by Laokin, 01 December 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Sifright]

Laokin, on 01 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Not at all disingenuous, it was in reply to this statement, which IS disingenuous.



Try reading the whole thing within it's CONTEXT next time.

I also pilot a Cat-A1 with Fero Fib armor and I still post profits, so I stand behind my original statement regardless.

The statement that was made again, is that Trials are always better than doing the very best in your personalized mech.

I said this is NOT TRUE at all, and then posted an example. How is that disingenuous?

I'm just going to assume you didn't read my entire post, or the post I was replying to.

Bleh I have to admit I did miss the exact phrase you were responding to.

That said what I was claiming was disingenuous is actually the mech choice you said you make money with.

The K2 is a very very cheap catapult to run all of the other variants are more expensive because Lasers and ballistics are cheap to run. Missiles of any kind rack up huge cost very quickly.

Non-Streak SRMS are actually very expensive as it stands now. Not that it will stop me from just zombie rearming and running at 75% free rearm to play because i find the full 6 SRM6 cat to be very fun.

that said if i actually pay for my missiles i'll struggle to break even. This is with a 75% win/loss ratio.

[Laokin]

Sifright, on 01 December 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Bleh I have to admit I did miss the exact phrase you were responding to.

That said what I was claiming was disingenuous is actually the mech choice you said you make money with.

The K2 is a very very cheap catapult to run all of the other variants are more expensive because Lasers and ballistics are cheap to run. Missiles of any kind rack up huge cost very quickly.

Non-Streak SRMS are actually very expensive as it stands now. Not that it will stop me from just zombie rearming and running at 75% free rearm to play because i find the full 6 SRM6 cat to be very fun.

that said if i actually pay for my missiles i'll struggle to break even. This is with a 75% win/loss ratio.

On my A1, I usually don't run out missiles, so after the Welfare re-arm I usually have around 83% ammo, I don't rearm until It gets down to the free 75%, this allows me to turn a pretty good profit, if I rearmed after every match, I'd be losing or breaking even more often than not.

Like I said, I don't think the R&R rates are right at all, but my post wasn't so much about economics as much as it was addressing that very specific statement.

P.S.

Sorry if I seemed rude in the previous post -- that wasn't my intention.

Edited by Laokin, 01 December 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Sifright]

Laokin, on 01 December 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

On my A1, I usually don't run out missiles, so after the Welfare re-arm I usually have around 83% ammo, I don't rearm until It gets down to the free 75%, this allows me to turn a pretty good profit, if I rearmed after every match, I'd be losing or breaking even more often than not.

Like I said, I don't think the R&R rates are right at all, but my post wasn't so much about economics as much as it was addressing that very specific statement.

P.S.

Sorry if I seemed rude in the previous post -- that wasn't my intention.

No worries, sorry if seemed snippy.

I'm not very diplomatic in how i type up my thoughts and with out being able to 'hear' tone it's easy to take a post as being hostile so sorry if i came across that way.

but yea, the repair and rearm rates certainly need tweaking for missile boats.

People might have a point if i was running Artemis but i'm not and I can still lose money on a win