67 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

As of the last patch, the Cataphracts arms have very limited side-to-side motion. When compared to the extreme torso twist of the catapult, the cataphracts fully-actuated arms are actually less mobile.

In order to make up for this disparity in mobility, the cataphract should probably gain at least 15 degrees of torso twist range.

At Mr. 144's suggestion, adding his detailed analysis to OP:

The Definitive Brawler:
160 Degree HBK (120+40), top of the charts in mobility but only a medium.
Dual reticules is actually a huge advantage with energy points only in the arms (convergence not an issue)
This makes it the 'best' brawler, but a bit of a glass cannon. I think it's balance is perfect.

Other chassis than the HBK:
120-130 total (90 torso +arm), but all gain at least one other advantage to compensate such as...
*Increased Vertical Range
*Increased Maximum Speed
*Increased Weapon Tonnage
*Increased Armor

The Catapult:
140 Degree Torso Twist with high twist speed.
Zero convergence issues in any hardpoint variant configuration.

Now, the Cataphract:
110 Degree total (90+20).
Ballisitc/Missle Arm-based Hardpoints create convergence issues unless LRMs, SSRMs, and/or Beam weapons are used in them.

So basically, the 'phract' is the absolute Worst Brawler in terms of targeting, both in convergence, and range of motion. Don't get me wrong, I Love my 'phracts'. They have excellent firepower potential, nice armor (despite opinions on hitboxes), nice speed, and a very fun mix of hardpoints. The problem is, there is really no distinct advantage to warrant having the worst range of motion in the game.

A Bump to 105 torso (+15 increase) and the current 20 degree arm, for a Total of 125 Degrees would put in smack 'average' compared to all other mechs. It also reduces the convergence issues a bit using SRM, PPC, and/or Ballistics in the arms, but does not remove it completely. It also provides a nice niche in terms of piloting, an aspect of mechwarrior I thouroughhly enjoy. It would provide a unique targeting and motion method with sufficient strengths and weekness to compete with all standard chassis', and both extremes of the the CPTL and HBK.

A long complicated way of saying.....
/signed

Mr 144

Edited by Lefty Lucy, 02 December 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Agreed

This is the only problem I have with the phract. Its torso twsit is abysmal.

[Zero Neutral]

Or, at least, make the arms move more quickly to the reticule.

[Clay Pigeon]

Yes. Swap the torso twist of the pult with the phract

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

It was fine before the "fix" to the clipping issue, but now the Cataphract definitely lacks side-to-side aiming flexibility. Enhancing torso twist by a decent amount would fix the issue nicely.

I support this.

[Leetskeet]

Reminds me

Lol at the Cataphract's arm range. Good fix, yo.

As I watch Catapults turn completely backwards instantly to shoot me

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Clay Pigeon, on 01 December 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Yes. Swap the torso twist of the pult with the phract

Seems like too far an extreme solution.

Lefty has the right idea to just increase the maximum torso twist angle by like 15-20 degrees.

[Corvus Antaka]

I agree. I also think the catapults extreme torso twist should be cut down, as a long range support mech it should have one of the worst torso twists, not a near 360 one.

[Roland]

Did they actually reduce the actual arm movement? I had thought that they just reduced the animation movements, to prevent it from graphically clipping through the mech.

I have not noticed that I have any particularly limited aiming capabilities with my Cataphract.

[SpiralRazor]

Signed.

[CocoaJin]

or provide the mech an increase in turn rate. I'd rather be able to spin the mech around faster, thus giving it greater mobility, than have a few extra angles on the torso, just to have other mechs get behind me a second or so later.

The increased turn can still delay them getting behind me, but at least I had have a better time reversing my turn to get them in my sights again.

As of right now, I feel like those lumbering, fat-*** robots in the beginning of the 5th Element.

Edited by CocoaJin, 02 December 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Roland, on 01 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Did they actually reduce the actual arm movement? I had thought that they just reduced the animation movements, to prevent it from graphically clipping through the mech.

I have not noticed that I have any particularly limited aiming capabilities with my Cataphract.

Your arm reticle can only aim about 20 degrees past your max torso twist, unlike most mechs that have about 45 degrees of arm movement.

[MustrumRidcully]

I support this motion.

If they want to lower the arm movement for aesthetical reasons, they have to consider the gameplay implications and find a way to compensate it. An increased torso twist rate should do.

[SilentSooYun]

MustrumRidcully, on 02 December 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

I support this motion.

If they want to lower the arm movement for aesthetical reasons, they have to consider the gameplay implications and find a way to compensate it. An increased torso twist rate should do.

Or a shorter torso barrel, yes: I can't agree with this enough.

Of all the issues this game still has, I have no idea why they felt this needed fixing right now. I don't think I have heard anyone complaining about clipping issues... the people I drop with are all too busy fighting to worry about a little arm overlap.

[Bagheera]

+1000 Prior to the change, the arm articulation was one of the best things about CTF. Once again, whoever is deciding on nerfs was too heavy handed.

[Boogie Man]

I had already suggested a fix for this in the suggestion forum a while ago. Please bump my post so the devs notice it!

http://mwomercs.com/...72#entry1516472

[Bloody Moon]

+1 from me Lefty, 15 degrees, 10% twist speed and it's good as new.

[ollo]

+1, didnt even really notice it until i played today and notices how limited the distance of reticule to crosshair really is...

[Lefty Lucy]

ollo, on 02 December 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

+1, didnt even really notice it until i played today and notices how limited the distance of reticule to crosshair really is...

Yeah, it's really limited the benefit I get out of my SRM6s in my brawler 2x.

[skullman86]

I bet the Ilya will get a torso twist bonus of some kind to make it "special" and they'll ignore the rest of the variants.