35 replies to this topic

[TheMightyWashburn]

TL;DR: Decrease A1 armor and speed to make streakcats manageable.
First off. The devs intend to reduce smoke and shake from all missiles and ballistics.
(somewhere in command chair)

Second. The streak can not be nerfed as you would if it were over powered as a single weapon. Obviously it is important for it to be a viable option to pop in for a little damage boost if you have one or two missile hardpoints but dont want to pack on the LRMs and SRMs are impractical, say, for reasons of speed and maneuvering.

Many of you have realized these two things and if you think that the streak shouldnt exist at all this thread isnt for you so dont bother commenting.

If you recognize the first and second premise then I would like to suggest that we do not fix the SSRMs (save for the shake and smoke already slated to be dealt with) but instead fix the A1 cat.

For those of you who dont know the A1 cat has 6 missile hardpoints making it ideal for a number of builds, be it a streak cat, a srm boat or several variations on the LRM boat (my own having 2XLRM20+2XLRM15 [I have no armor and only go 37 kph])

I suggest that the devs alter the A1 cat variant by substantially* decreasing the cat's maximum armor and maybe moderately decreasing it maximum engine size.

How this would affect gameplay for the 3 builds on this variant.
LRM boats would not be seriously effected as they dont need a whole lot of speed and if they are doing it right dont need much armor either. In my own LRM boat I rarely die even though I have only 1 ton of armor on my whole mech.
SRM and SSRM boats would both become a more manageable threat on the battlefield. The reduced armor would force them to route more easily and make the tactic I have seen several premades use, where they simply rush our well entrenched lines so quickly that even concentrated fire can only take down one or two before the other 3-5 mechs overun our position and there can be no doubt that the streakapult is superior to any other mech at close range combat.

The streakapult should not reign supreme over CQC, however, I do think they should be a formidible foe. But they simply should not be able to run across 300-400m of open space while under heavy directed fire without being nearly if not totally demolished upon arrival.

What do you think of this solution?

*by substantial I mean a degree that allows them to be effective up close but by no means able to run at nigh 70 kph under heavy LRM and ballistic fire and still be so dangerous.

Edited by TheMightyWashburn, 01 December 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[BumbaCLot]

waaa

[Vandul]

If you cant get to my Artemis LRM/5 A1 sled and kill me, you must be doing something seriously wrong.

[TheMightyWashburn]

Vandul, on 01 December 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

If you cant get to my Artemis LRM/5 A1 sled and kill me, you must be doing something seriously wrong.

You... didnt even read it did you?

[Otto Cannon]

[Vermaxx]

Dinking the armor and speed of an entire variant because you hate one build is really stupid. And hypocritical.

All they need to do is some minor tweaking to SSRM, like FORCE the system to spread the hit locations nonrandomly, to 'simulate' the random of tabletop. This game uses an expanding cone for missiles, meaning close up or in short bursts they tend to hit center mass. Force the missiles to pick targets from the whole mech, and they instantly lose a huge portion of their fear factor.

The lowering of shake, smoke, and fire will also go a long way toward making streaks less terrifying; without making the weapons totally useless for the people who use smaller numbers of launchers as actual backup weapons. Like how medium lasers got a heat boost because of boating, and now people can't carry the backups like they should be able to.

Lots of people use the A1 for other things, like dumbfire SRM (which is actually much more deadly) and the ALL LRM ALL THE TIME builds. Narfing the variant because people don't like it carrying six dinky SRM2 is a big mistake.

[Captain Midnight]

ITT the OP doesn't realize that if you boat a weapon and it's OP, then it's an OP weapon, end of discussion; the rest are SSRM apologizers who think their streak A1s are fine.

[Sifright]

TheMightyWashburn, on 01 December 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

TL;DR: Decrease A1 armor and speed to make streakcats manageable.
First off. The devs intend to reduce smoke and shake from all missiles and ballistics.
(somewhere in command chair)

Second. The streak can not be nerfed as you would if it were over powered as a single weapon. Obviously it is important for it to be a viable option to pop in for a little damage boost if you have one or two missile hardpoints but dont want to pack on the LRMs and SRMs are impractical, say, for reasons of speed and maneuvering.

Many of you have realized these two things and if you think that the streak shouldnt exist at all this thread isnt for you so dont bother commenting.

If you recognize the first and second premise then I would like to suggest that we do not fix the SSRMs (save for the shake and smoke already slated to be dealt with) but instead fix the A1 cat.

For those of you who dont know the A1 cat has 6 missile hardpoints making it ideal for a number of builds, be it a streak cat, a srm boat or several variations on the LRM boat (my own having 2XLRM20+2XLRM15 [I have no armor and only go 37 kph])

I suggest that the devs alter the A1 cat variant by substantially* decreasing the cat's maximum armor and maybe moderately decreasing it maximum engine size.

How this would affect gameplay for the 3 builds on this variant.
LRM boats would not be seriously effected as they dont need a whole lot of speed and if they are doing it right dont need much armor either. In my own LRM boat I rarely die even though I have only 1 ton of armor on my whole mech.
SRM and SSRM boats would both become a more manageable threat on the battlefield. The reduced armor would force them to route more easily and make the tactic I have seen several premades use, where they simply rush our well entrenched lines so quickly that even concentrated fire can only take down one or two before the other 3-5 mechs overun our position and there can be no doubt that the streakapult is superior to any other mech at close range combat.

The streakapult should not reign supreme over CQC, however, I do think they should be a formidible foe. But they simply should not be able to run across 300-400m of open space while under heavy directed fire without being nearly if not totally demolished upon arrival.

What do you think of this solution?

*by substantial I mean a degree that allows them to be effective up close but by no means able to run at nigh 70 kph under heavy LRM and ballistic fire and still be so dangerous.

problem with this is that it dies relatively fast already under coordinated fire.
You reduce the armour by more than a couple of percent and it's going to go down like a tonne of bricks given the size of the hit boxes.

Streaks with **** pit rocking removed and smoke reduced will be no threat to larger mechs.

SRM heavy A1's should still be a huge threat how ever. They have a lot of draw backs for their impressive punch and require a lot of aiming ability to use well.

Nerfing catapults armour just forces them to be spam lrms at long range or not be used.

I don't think you can reduce their armour currently and not make them worthless as brawlers.

[Franchi]

see sig.

[Pale Jackal]

ECM should nerf A1's, as should reducing SRM screenshake.

Reducing max engine size is an interesting idea, but that nerfs 6 SRM6 boats, and I do love fast LRM boats.

[Phalse]

Crippling the entire chasis, which would also impact any other configuration of weapons it could carry, isn't the answer. It would just make the whole A1 variant useless.

The problem is the loadout. The streak srm 2 is just too powerful in its current form. Fixes to the weapon system itself are more justifiable. Perhaps the rate of fire could be reduced (say the fire control system takes longer to update the tracking for each volley), or the damage reduced (maybe the addition of a guidance system necessitated a reduction in the size of the warhead).

It would also be nice if the amount of shake and blur were connected to the size of the missile rack. An SRM6 should cause much more shudder than the streak srm 2. Right now there is simply too much disruption to the target being caused by this particular weapon.

[dal10]

how many people complaining about the a1 are light pilots? for example I know midnight likes lights.

[One Medic Army]

Funny, you don't see this many issues with A1s boating SRM6s, or LRM5s, or playing with balanced loadouts of LRM+SRM+SSRM.
Which tells me that the problem really is that Streaks are just too good for the minimal skill/tonnage/heat/ammo/space they require.

Loading up a 65ton mech with only 9tons and 6crit slots of weapons with say 6tons of ammo and no extra heatsinks shouldn't present the amount of threat they do. A big mech that lightly armed should downright suck (excepting super-fast Dragons who have speed). PERIOD.

(I pilot Atlas, Hunchbacks, Cataphracts, a Catapult, very rarely a Jenner)
Every single mech I have apart from the Jenner (and the Hunch-SP when it has 2x SSRM launchers) mounts more tonnage of weapons than an A-1 streakboat.
Apart from the SSRM hunch SP all my hunches mount at least 11 tons of weaponry, and they all have extra heatsinks past the DHS in the engine.

Edited by One Medic Army, 01 December 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[Vermaxx]

I love people who quote "skill" with SSRM, as if it takes a huge amount of "skill" to hit mechs.

Hit them well, yes. Hit them at all (especially with anything spreadfire or rapid fire), no.

The SSRM isn't any less "skilled" than anything else. You need to play smart. The missiles don't drive the mech, pick targets, move around the map carefully, turn the torso to spread damage, jump jet as necessary, or time fire to really fork people. The missiles don't even fire themselves.

I HAVE TO DO ALL THAT. And I can tell you, having used a streak cat, I am not impressed. I've had a few perfect storm runs where I get four kills. I've done that in several other mechs, none of which carry streaks.

I did it tonight in a Hunch 4-H carrying 5 medium lasers and no DHS. 3 kills before the AFK guy at the base.

Streaks are only effective when you are probably already fked anyway - like when you get teamrolled. One on one, a heavy versus a heavy or assault, streak cats do not win reliably. They do not, contrary to popular belief, solo teams. They kill damaged mechs, or people not paying attention, or speed up wolfpacking. In other words, they kill you when you were already fk d anyway.

[ObsidianSpectre]

One Medic Army, on 01 December 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Funny, you don't see this many issues with A1s boating SRM6s, or LRM5s, or playing with balanced loadouts of LRM+SRM+SSRM.
Which tells me that the problem really is that Streaks are just too good for the minimal skill/tonnage/heat/ammo/space they require.

Other possibility: Streakcats are specialized boats, and somebody ran into them in a situation that they're especially good at, and now they're overreacting.

The presence of ECM is going to be enough of a nerf. It makes streakcats even more specialized. No further nerf is needed.

[Sifright]

Vermaxx, on 01 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Streaks are only effective when you are probably already fked anyway - like when you get teamrolled. One on one, a heavy versus a heavy or assault, streak cats do not win reliably. They do not, contrary to popular belief, solo teams. They kill damaged mechs, or people not paying attention, or speed up wolfpacking. In other words, they kill you when you were already fk d anyway.

I'm going to have to disagree very heavily with here but it's conditional.

My SRM6 cat eats the hell out of any heavy mech or lower. streak cats are my worst night mare.

They rock the hell out of my cockpit with chain fire and I end up spending ages trying to get my baring line up shots and can't because hes using jets and i'm covered in smoke.

every other mech I turn to slag with ease streaks eat-me alive.

Edited by Sifright, 01 December 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[One Medic Army]

ObsidianSpectre, on 01 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Other possibility: Streakcats are specialized boats, and somebody ran into them in a situation that they're especially good at, and now they're overreacting.

The presence of ECM is going to be enough of a nerf. It makes streakcats even more specialized. No further nerf is needed.

I don't deny that ECM will make things harder on them, but only 4 chassis will have ECM.
As to running into them in a situation that they're good at, I pilot brawlers and strikers. All of my mechs are specialized at <270m engagements, and my atlas for instance has more trouble with ripple-fired SSRM boats than any other mech.

[Woodpeckr]

Sifright, on 01 December 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

They have a lot of draw backs for their impressive punch and require a lot of aiming ability to use well.

ROFLCOPTER

[Sifright]

Woodpeckr, on 01 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

ROFLCOPTER

You try using them outside of knife range accurately with this netcode and get back to me.

edit: SRM6's that is not streaks if you hadn't worked it out.

Edited by Sifright, 01 December 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Demoned]

well in my opinion i don't think the A1 does all that much damage,
just sold mine thought I'd give the SSRM build a go, I've see friends do great deal of damage with it,
and thought why not
but to my dismay'ish i can pump out more damage in my Hunch HBK-4SP
between 100/200 extra per match,
now i have run the Hunch alot more than a A1, so i guess it just doesn't suit my style of play.
or maybe it does take a little bit of skill to play it right.
But in the end i sold mine so i won't really know,
medium player here it would seem

Edited by Demoned, 01 December 2012 - 09:55 PM.