65 replies to this topic

[ZliDiabetichar]

+1

[Socket7]

Step #1 Identify location of LRM boat.
Step #2 Hide behind cover.
Step #3 Expose yourself so they fire a salvo
Step #4 Hide behind cover
Step #5 Repeat steps 3 and 4 until LRM boat is out of ammo
Step #6 Laugh as the now defenseless LRM boat is completely helpless.

Alternate strategy for the impatient.

Step #1 Identify location of LRM boat
Step #2 Use cover and terrain to flank the LRM boat and close in on him without him noticing. (because he's busy shredding your teamates who decided to stand around in an open field being pounded on by LRMS)
Step #3 Shoot LRM boat repeatedly in the back.
Step #4 Laugh maniacally as LRM boat fires 20 racks at you only to have them bounce off because you are within their minimum range.
Step #5 Keep shooting them repeatedly with complete impunity because they have absolutely no close range weapons.

Edited by Socket7, 02 December 2012 - 01:49 PM.

[Umbra8]

So you are running 2 x AC20's with tonnage for ammo and complaining about closing the distance on a pretty standard LRM Catapult? It also sounds like you were in terrain with poor cover. I also note there was conspicuously no mention of AMS in your post. Let me summarize your post in this way:

Hey! Rock here. I got smashed by Paper. Nerf Paper!

You went up against the worst possible opponent in the worst possible way. One 35 ton jenner would probably have ruined that boats day. I know when I run a C4 if anything gets to within 180 meters of me (not hard with anything that runs over 80 kph and can use cover) my two medium lasers feel pretty damn inadequate. Even if they don't kill me (probably will) they'll take my missile fire out of the fight while I try to protect my back.

If you're running those heavy bore AC's, know your role. You are a slow brawler with a big punch, you are there to wreck heavy, slow mechs that can't dodge. You're an assault killer. Anything that's light, long range, or spec'd for speed will ruin your day. If you're going to run that specialized, don't complain when you lose to something that's outside your speciality. It was your mistake to engage that target and if you want to be effective against them it's not their weapons system that needs to be nerfed, it's your build that needs to be changed. I recommend dual AC2's or 5's on a K2. The DPS on the 2's can rival an AC20 if you stay on target for the same cycle time as a 20.

The tools are already in the game. Use them.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Yeah AC/20 is damn useless hwn that LRM carrier can catch you in the open and know about you.Especially if its only LRM mech(4xLRM20) and ure slow.And let say it K2 is not good mech for dual AC/20.You will do same work better with cataphract or w8 for Daishi .

[Vincent Lynch]

1. your point 7 IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED. so if that LRMboat is back behind the hill and the LRM still hit you that pilot is either just really, really good, or someone was spotting you.
2. you put an engine in your cat that makes it marginally faster than an atlas and then rant about not being able to close the distance to a cat with a decent engine???

Too lazy to make a Morpheus meme, but:

What if I told you...
...your build is simply crap?

[HarmAssassin]

[color=blue]Said is many times in another thread. Either LRMs need to better randomize their hit locations, or do less damage. Twice (in a row) last night I had Assault mechs cored by LRMs. I got the "incoming missile" warning (someone must have spotted me out that I didn't see), and before I could really do anything about it my center torso was destroyed. My arms and legs took no damage. Two rounds in a row.

If LRMs hit locations were completely random, or if they continue to focus on torso hits have the damage reduced, I wouldn't have a problem with them.

You could even introduce a system of aiming the LRMs to specific areas by where the person's crosshairs are pointing within the target designation box (60% chance that any missile hits where you aim, 10% of it hitting location to left, 10% right, 20% up or down... whatever).

But at 2.8 dmg per missile, a 50 LRM barrage that focuses the vast majority of its damage on the three torso's is slaughtering the heavy mechs.

Notice fewer and fewer people are playing assault mechs? When I started playing the game roughtly 1/4th of the players were in assault mechs. Now (and I play 6-7 hrs every day) I'm lucky to see more than 1 assault mech on my team, and quite often there are none.

Most of the cover in the game isn't tall enough to block incoming missiles, and much of it allow missiles to pass clean through it.

Oh, and I too have seen the jump cats firing LRMs while in the air, and it is extremly annoying as you don't get cover from them. Yes, it is a good tactic, but the sheer amount of damage (all done to torso locations) is ridiculous.

Any fight you get into, lights you up and exposes you to incoming LRMs. That's not a problem, and it is as it should be... but the sheer amount of damage they do makes it ridiculous.

Right now the most common weapons used in game seem to be SSRMs and LRMs. There are now Jenners running around with LRM 15s, so they can be their own spotters.[/color]

Edited by HarmAssassin, 02 December 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Snib]

HarmAssassin, on 02 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

[color=blue]Said is many times in another thread. Either LRMs need to better randomize their hit locations, or do less damage. Twice (in a row) last night I had Assault mechs cored by LRMs. I got the "incoming missile" warning (someone must have spotted me out that I didn't see), and before I could really do anything about it my center torso was destroyed. My arms and legs took no damage. Two rounds in a row.[/color]

Artemis + TAG/NARC do that. Also LRM damage just got buffed last patch.

PS: LOL @ OP

Edited by Snib, 02 December 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[HarmAssassin]

Snib, on 02 December 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Artemis + TAG/NARC do that. Also LRM damage just got buffed last patch.

PS: LOL @ OP

The enemy was not using Artemis, and as far as I can tell no one got close enough to Tag/Narc me. This is happening WAY too often for that to be the cause. More and more people are complaining, it is only a matter of time before they reduce the LRM damage (or increase randomization of hit locations), or lose players.

[Umbra8]

HarmAssassin, on 02 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

But at 2.8 dmg per missile, a 50 LRM barrage that focuses the vast majority of its damage on the three torso's is slaughtering the heavy mechs.

Current damage is at 1.7 per missile. May go up to 1.8 in the next patch. LRM 15s require three critical slots to mount. There are only two available in the torso of every jenner, so no, there are no jenners running around with lrm 15's.

[HarmAssassin]

Umbra8, on 02 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Current damage is at 1.7 per missile. May go up to 1.8 in the next patch. LRM 15s require three critical slots to mount. There are only two available in the torso of every jenner, so no, there are no jenners running around with lrm 15's.

I may be mistaken about it being a Jenner (perhaps a Commando), but it was definitely a light mech, and yes it did have a LRM15.

Also in the release notes it stated that the LRM damage was increased to 1.8 per missile in the last patch.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 02 December 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[Snib]

Umbra8, on 02 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

Current damage is at 1.7 per missile. May go up to 1.8 in the next patch.

You're a patch behind there. We're at 1.8 already.

Edited by Snib, 02 December 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Umbra8]

The Commando COM-2D can run an lrm 15 as it's stock build already uses and srm 6 and an srm 4. Thing is, an lrm 15 with say, two tons of ammo weighs in at 9 tons. The stock weapon loadout for the 2D is 6 tons without counting ammo, so one running an lrm 15 is running ******-all else, or had dropped its engine, or is skimping on armour. Frankly, I'd be fine with meeting one on the battlefield. The scouts on your own team will eat a build like that for lunch.

[Skyfaller]

Has the OP heard of his thing called 'cover' and that the maps are 90% made of cover..

and...

*gasp*

you can MOVE and stay in cover?

[zrap]

lrm have been changed, nerfed, buffed for quite some time now, went from totally OP to totally useless, but they are just fine at the moment IMO.

we'll see what happens when ECM hits.

[Nebuzar]

LRM's suck to get hit by especially if you get stuck out in the open. But I feel as it stands now the damage is comparable to other weapons, but should hit in a more dispersed pattern unless artemis is equiped. As it is right now there are times where the missiles on non artemis launchers seem to converge and hit all in the core of a mech but this doesnt happen all the time. Not sure if this is a glitch or a calculation error in the tracking programing.

AMS needs a bit of a buff cause as it stands right now an AMS will take out about 5 missiles of a pack of 40 that are coming at you making it virtually useless. Either the range needs to be increased out to 300m for AMS or it needs to be able to pick up targets a bit faster because it should be able to take out more missiles then that with as slow as they fly.

Also people are looking for ECM to be the fix all to LRM's, what most aren't realizing is that ECM will have a "chance" to break locks, and if this is calculated properly the larger the mech class the stronger the target lock will be and the less chance there will be that ECM will break the lock. So if the ECM has a 1/10 chance to break the target lock on a Catapult and it has a cycle time of say 3 seconds, then it could take 30 seconds to get one target break that will only last 3-4 seconds before the target is reaquired.

Long story short... learn to play your mech setup and class properly and learn to use teamwork as well as know the weakness of each weapon type so you know how to counter it properly.

[Dibster]

I think LRM's are currently overpowered. What makes them overpowered is that they consistently outdo direct damage long range weapons in damage output and require none of the skill to operate.

If you pit a gausscat or 2xPPC+Gauss mech against a 2xLRM20 mech, the latter will dominate every time at long range. The LRM mech can move around at full speed and still hit it's LRM's, while the other mech has more trouble hitting a moving, turning target consistently even while staying put itself. The LRM's also cause screen shake which makes it even harder for the direct fire mech to compete.

[Stabbitha]

Stormgut, on 02 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

This is your fault for running a cheesy dual AC/20 Cat. Getting eaten for free by LRM cats is one of the prices you pay for running a super-slow, super-short-range mech.

Do you have no common sense? If you stood a chance against LRMs in that build, how awful would they be against someone who is actually a decent counter to LRMs?

As for this:


The best LRM pilots are those that keep up close behind the front line brawlers on their team and provide support against targets 300-400m away, not the cheesy boats that sit on a hill and click on targets from 800m. They do more reliable damage, and aren't a liability for the team when enemy scouts break through the line to harass them.

TL;DR: They're doing it right, you're doing it wrong.

I agree with everything in this post.

OP is running a FOTM cheese build and complaining because it's completely neutralised by a LRM boat. Are you suprised?? Srsly? Would you support a nerf to AC20's if you met a LRM boat in the ice tunnel under 180m? In that circumstance, you are seriously OP. X D

re: using LRMs as a mid range support (rather than dedicated rear artillery) is also a great idea. Part of the reason my D-DC mounts 3x15 artemis with 9 tonnes of ammo, 2 large lasers and (when it's available) ECM... =)

If you stick with the pack, you won't have as many problems with scouts harassing you or a flanker medium catching you out. And when you're at 300m, the enemy doesn't have 20 seconds to hide behind a building. Plus, those annoying scouts and zippy mediums? Outside 180m and with little time to get to cover, they are stripped nekkid and in a lot of trouble in 1-2 salvos.

[Dibster]

And after saying all that you think they're balanced...

[Dibster]

The way it should be: LRM boats have to take cover because direct fire snipers are tearing them apart.

The way it is: Snipers must take cover because LRM's are thearing them apart.

Why: LRM's can shoot from cover, snipers can't.

Edited by Dibster, 02 December 2012 - 08:30 PM.

[Loqgar]

I agree that lrms need a nerf, too much damage, not enough work or risk. I disagree with almost every way you want to fix it. I think they need to make lock take 3-5x longer like WAY longer to get if the LRMer doesn't have direct LOS (add c3 later to reduce this back to maybe 2x what it is now, and make lock lose instantly if there was no direct LOS from the LRMer. And/OR reduce the amount of ammo/ton so LRM boats have to either pick the shots more carefully.

Do-add more involvement/risk to the boats.
Don't-reduce damage from LRMs they should punish those who make bad decisions about positioning.