119 replies to this topic

[Codejack]

Asakara, on 03 December 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Where I just think the OP hates jenners:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1528730




How again are they buffing Jenners next patch OP?

By the way, I am looking forward to your "nerf ravens and commandos" thread later this week.

Jenner + ECM = unkillable mech for most of us. I just chewed through an Atlas then 2-shot a Dragon in my 6xSRM6 A1, then got hounded to death buy a Jenner who is just never actually where he appears to be when I pull the trigger.

I don't have the same problems hitting Ravens and Commandos with, say, lasers; they can at least be cornered. Jenners just jump over the obstacle, then come at you from behind.

[Fiachdubh]

Yep those lights will get you every time. When standing on the edge of the battlefield with an enemy Atlas and Awesome to the left of me and an enemy light to the right of me.. I always go left (in my Hunchies).

EDIT: I also run away from Catapults because of their seemingly impervious armour but I especially run away from streakcats.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 03 December 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[Asakara]

Codejack, on 03 December 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Jenner + ECM = unkillable mech for most of us. I just chewed through an Atlas then 2-shot a Dragon in my 6xSRM6 A1, then got hounded to death buy a Jenner who is just never actually where he appears to be when I pull the trigger.

I don't have the same problems hitting Ravens and Commandos with, say, lasers; they can at least be cornered. Jenners just jump over the obstacle, then come at you from behind.

1) Jenners are not getting ECM. So how are they buffing them again?
2) Raven 3Ls and Commandos can go at or nearly at the same speed as a Jenner.
3) Ravens can carry the same max armor as a Jenner.
4) So jump jets are OP? A Jenner without jets would be fine, like a Raven then?

[Codejack]

Asakara, on 03 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

1) Jenners are not getting ECM. So how are they buffing them again?
2) Raven 3Ls and Commandos can go at or nearly at the same speed as a Jenner.
3) Ravens can carry the same max armor as a Jenner.
4) So jump jets are OP? A Jenner without jets would be fine, like a Raven then?

You don't actually play the game, do you?

It was my understanding that, yes, at least one model of Jenner would be getting ECM.

Neither Ravens nor Commandos can go anything like as fast as a Jenner; Cicadas can, but their hardpoint layouts suck.

Ravens can be as tough as Jenners to kill, but they are not as fast or as maneuverable, and their weapon loadout isn't quite as good.

It's not jumpjets, it is the combination of everything; right now, unless I'm in a streakboat of some description, tangling with a Jenner is basically certain death. I have tried lasers, pulse lasers, light AC, heavy AC, LB-AC, Gauss, mass SRMs; even LRMs are only effective within a fairly narrow range, unless they are stupid enough to let you catch them in the open.

So, streakcats counter Jenners; Jenners counter Gausscats, Gunphracts, Nawesomes, and Fatlases; any of those can kill the streakcat. How is the conclusion here that the streakcat is OP?!

[Asakara]

Codejack, on 03 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

You don't actually play the game, do you?

It was my understanding that, yes, at least one model of Jenner would be getting ECM.

Neither Ravens nor Commandos can go anything like as fast as a Jenner; Cicadas can, but their hardpoint layouts suck.

Ravens can be as tough as Jenners to kill, but they are not as fast or as maneuverable, and their weapon loadout isn't quite as good.

It's not jumpjets, it is the combination of everything; right now, unless I'm in a streakboat of some description, tangling with a Jenner is basically certain death. I have tried lasers, pulse lasers, light AC, heavy AC, LB-AC, Gauss, mass SRMs; even LRMs are only effective within a fairly narrow range, unless they are stupid enough to let you catch them in the open.

So, streakcats counter Jenners; Jenners counter Gausscats, Gunphracts, Nawesomes, and Fatlases; any of those can kill the streakcat. How is the conclusion here that the streakcat is OP?!

LOL!

I do not see anywhere that the Jenner is getting ECM tomorrow. Perhaps you can quote the official text which states that?

You realize a Raven 3L can mount a 295 XL engine vs a Jenner's 300 XL and a Commando can also go 1 kph faster than a 300 XL Jenner with an 215 XL engine right?

Besides Raven 3Ls being just as fast as a Jenner, their loadout is nearly the same with the Jenner D getting 1 more energy hardpoint over the 3L, but the 3L's missile slots are in the torso and arm (instead of both in the CT) allowing larger launchers. A Jenner can not fire a 45 point alpha travelling at over 140kph.. But a Raven 3L can (with speed tweak).

Finally, I never stated the streakcat is OP (please quote me if you have proof). I have been consistently asking how the Jenner will be buffed next patch, as that is what you stated (quote provided above). So, how are Jenners getting buffed next patch please?

Edited by Asakara, 03 December 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

The Jenner JR7-D (or was it the K?) was going to get ECM but was pulled. The only mechs getting ECM now are:

Commando COM-2D
Raven RVN-3L
Cicada CDA-3M
Atlas AS7-D-DC

See: http://mwomercs.com/...dian-ecm-suite/

Edited by TruePoindexter, 03 December 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[Codejack]

TruePoindexter, on 03 December 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

The Jenner JR7-D (or was it the K?) was going to get ECM but was pulled. The only mechs getting ECM now are:

Commando COM-2D
Raven RVN-3L
Cicada CDA-3M
Atlas AS7-D-DC

See: http://mwomercs.com/...dian-ecm-suite/

Good, that would have sucked.

[Garth Erlam]

'Aim for the giant ears' would be my recommendation on tackling streakcats. My Cicada does ok against them, haven't fought many in my Jenner to be honest.

[TruePoindexter]

Garth Erlam, on 03 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

'Aim for the giant ears' would be my recommendation on tackling streakcats. My Cicada does ok against them, haven't fought many in my Jenner to be honest.

This and shoot from 271m+

Also use your teammates as bait

[Trauglodyte]

Dammit, TruePoindexter beat me to it!

Anyway, SkillCats are only problematic if you accidentally come face to face with one. Then it is merely a "can you get away faster then they can chew your back armor?" On some maps, you can use buildings to your advantage but that slows down your straight line progress, thus limiting the amount of distance you can put between you two.

I honestly fear the Commando/Jenner/Raven Streak boaters more. In a Cicada, they're just as fast so there is no opening the range. At that point, you need help from group mates (shocker!) and you have got to be the better pilot. Only issue with that last point is that even then, you can't open up offensively on them cause you'll just end up getting Streaks in the face.



PS> My Cicadas are better than Garth's! /flex

Edited by Trauglodyte, 03 December 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

You are using the most OP build in the game, "no way to kill" = I can't aim so I need crutches. Yeah, I know the lag shooting sucks, but still... you're basically coming out and saying exactly what all the A1 haters are saying; that A1s are OP and automatically get kills, you just don't have a problem with it because you want kills not skills :-/

yeh it only takes two mechs to kill a jenner under normal conditions since it can run circles around everyone without getting a direct hit, If its jenner on Jenner they will be going at it all match long (can't say how many matches that has happened stopped counting two months ago). So one on one only a jenner has a even chance to kill a jenner. One on one any higher weight class mech in the hands of a capable pilot should be able to kill a jenner, but they can't (It's not OP though lol). Streak cat is an easy kill in my hunchie, or atlas they are dead before they get in range. He is correct if he had gotten more support from his team in his other cats he would have had more kills, and lived longer. So I say if he wants to play a streak cat play it.

[Codejack]

Beo Vulf, on 03 December 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

ge. He is correct if he had gotten more support from his team in his other cats he would have had more kills, and lived longer. So I say if he wants to play a streak cat play it.

And that's really the key; I PUG exclusively, so I can't count on having anyone to fend off pesky lights. I have to do it myself.

I play Catapults, and I have an A1. What else am I supposed to do with it? Intentionally make it worse than it could be? The alternatives are, frankly, worse from the point of view of anyone looking ahead; 6xSRM6 + Artemis with no lag to protect you? 6xCLRM20?

[Saint Rigid]

I appreciate the point of the OP. The sentiment being "Light mechs are literally the death of me in every machine that I run, except the machine that is good at killing light mechs." So is the problem the light-mech killer, or the light mechs themselves (specifically Jenners, of course).

The answer is that they both need some fixes, but the Jenner needs more fixes (in my opinion). The streak-cat is good, yes, but it's not so good that I see four in every game. It has competition in the heavy category, which I see very often (more often than not). Streak-Cats have a very limited range, they have limited ammo capacity. You can destroy 50% of their effectiveness by destroying a single arm (which is pretty big and literally a hit "BOX"), not to mention dropping the other arm off with ZERO back-up weapons, and all those missiles can explode with critical hits (not to mention massive legging kryptonite).

Jenners seem arbitrarily good when compared to ALL other light mechs, that is indeed a problem.

The Streak-Cat has a DPS of 8.56 and a firepower rating of 30. Doesn't seem frighteningly high. Is it good, yes it is... but I don't think it is overpowered. People like to throw that word around a lot. It just needs some small fixes. In the overall scheme of things, is it an easy button, yeah I think it is. But is it a AUTO-WIN button, I don't think so.

[Codejack]

Incidentally, this thread has helped me improve my streakcat by a surprising amount.

I was running with an LRM, 15 or 20, but it was heavy, artemis doesn't work with streaks, two different kinds of ammo was kind of a drag....

So I dropped a std 300 engine in the sucker and now I just chase the little buggers down

[Strig]

Yeah ... I would say my optimal build for a Streakapult looks like the following:

• Endo Steel
  
• XL 300
  
• 21 single HSs (10+2 in engine, 9 spread across torso) ... they're cheaper than DHSs and more than cool enough
  
• 6xSSRM2s (7 tons of ammo in legs, CT and head)
  
• AMS (2 tons ammo)
  
• BAP
  
• 1 JJ (although once it is fixed I can easily sacrifice a HS or two for more)
  
• 1 CASE for reduced engine damage (nothing else necessary)
  
• completely MAX armor

I am running a little under max weight (64.69 tons) with 2 free crit slots so modifications are possible, but this thing is a blast to pilot and very efficient. Its a tad expensive (with the worst repairs coming from extremely long matches where I use all my ammo and get every shred of armor and equipment blown off). But it is very survivable if I don't charge in like an ***** (which I sometimes do ).

[Stormur Herra]

Roland, on 02 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

You were killed by Jenners while you were in a streak-cat?

I mean, sure, the Jenner is a very powerful mech... But seriously, that's on you at that point. If you can't kill Jenners with a streak cat then you are doing something very wrong.

The idea that the Jenner counters the streak cat is pretty funny.

1v1 a Jenner should be able to kill a streak cat with 0 problems. It's faster and can dictate range. Just wear the streak cat down from 271+m. In a team fight, killing something slowly from long range with med lasers might not be the most useful thing you could be contributing to a fight though.

[Lefty Lucy]

Strig, on 04 December 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Yeah ... I would say my optimal build for a Streakapult looks like the following:

• Endo Steel
  
• XL 300
  
• 21 single HSs (10+2 in engine, 9 spread across torso) ... they're cheaper than DHSs and more than cool enough
  
• 6xSSRM2s (7 tons of ammo in legs, CT and head)
  
• AMS (2 tons ammo)
  
• BAP
  
• 1 JJ (although once it is fixed I can easily sacrifice a HS or two for more)
  
• 1 CASE for reduced engine damage (nothing else necessary)
  
• completely MAX armor

I am running a little under max weight (64.69 tons) with 2 free crit slots so modifications are possible, but this thing is a blast to pilot and very efficient. Its a tad expensive (with the worst repairs coming from extremely long matches where I use all my ammo and get every shred of armor and equipment blown off). But it is very survivable if I don't charge in like an ***** (which I sometimes do ).

Upgrade to DHS, and use a SFE. Your repair costs will be a lot less.

[Kraven Kor]

Xenophontis, on 02 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

I kill all manner of lights quite easily without using a streak cat. Aiming is pretty hard, yeah?

To be fair, I do find I have to "lag shoot" sometimes, which is annoying.

But yes, I can kill lights without streaks. Not "easily" but I certainly am not frequently being, uh, "touched in a bad way" by light mechs all that much

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Yeah the lag is killer it messes up the system for sure, I know what you're saying... The problem is that PPCs are really hard to use at any range.

Well at least that makes me feel better about sucking with my PPC... still not giving it up though!

[Quazil]

barnmaddo, on 02 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

The OP is the only one who posted anything remotely resembling data, everyone else is just trolling with their unsupported opinions.

If you crank out the math, the streak-cat is the most effective mech in the game followed by the gauss-cat.
It's not even close. - well it wasn't close until they added the cata, the 2x AC5, 2x UAC5 build is on par with the gauss-cat but.

Edited by Quazil, 07 December 2012 - 12:07 AM.