119 replies to this topic

[Zero Neutral]

Streak cats will be fixed with the cockpit shake/smoke blind rebalance.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

*facedesk*

The only "nerf" to jenners needs to be collisions.

Streak cats are OP in both their streak ability's and their LRM boating ability's.

[Vincent Lynch]

took a streakcat down 2 hours ago with my gauss/PPC cat.
they are NOT op.

[Cerlin]

Wait so ok I just came back to the games after a couple months break and I see this post after playing about 20 games recently and I am confused. Firstly, the streakcat is easy to kill...with LRMS But the Jenner is a fragile little thing, that is seriously dependent on the pilot. You cant nerf the pilot. Hell I am NOT very good at light mechs and every time I use a jenner (pretty stock) I seem to die in a fire. What am I missing? Why do people love nerf bats so much in online games? I actually like the jenner least of the lights but why should that stop others from killing me with it? (and for the record ive seen a lot of commandos in the pub matches too, they kill my LRM catapult just fine.)

[Codejack]

Roland, on 02 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Uh.. yeah. And you're able to do 30 points of damage to them, every single time you pull the trigger. Neither one of those mechs should be able to do significant damage to you in the time it takes to kill one of them with a streak cat.

A typical Jenner takes 5-6 alpha strikes to kill, that's 14 seconds assuming that I can keep lock the entire time. Then I have to switch targets, regain lock, and do it all over again.

Roland, on 02 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Seriously, if you are killed by light mechs, while you are in a streak cat, then the problem exists between your chair and your keyboard.

I'll be keeping an eye out for you and your L33T SK!LLZ then.

Roland, on 02 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

No dude. It really is exactly as easy as I make it sound. And everyone who has used streaks knows it.


No dude, it's really not tough to get a lock on a jenner. If you can't hold the reticle over a moving target for the 2 seconds it takes to get a lock, then again, the problem is you.

You are seriously the first person I have ever seen, EVER, that suggested that they were being beaten by Jenners in their streak cat.

With the jerky turning, matching up torso and legs, and the Jenner jumping all over the place? And that's without even mentioning the teleportation problem; how can I hold a reticule over something that instantly changes place? That's not including enemy fire, either.

Guess what? I PUG exclusively, but my win/loss ratio is >1. I have no doubts about MY skill.

Zero Neutral, on 02 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Streak cats will be fixed with the cockpit shake/smoke blind rebalance.

If that's all they do, then I'm fine; I don't normally chain-fire, anyway; it shakes them more, but also spreads out the damage.

[Captain Midnight]

Codejack I'm afraid you sacrificed any credibility you had when you said "keeping a lock is hard" and "I die to jenners in a streak A1"

[Codejack]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Codejack I'm afraid you sacrificed any credibility you had when you said "keeping a lock is hard" and "I die to jenners in a streak A1"

That didn't stop me from killing you the other night.

[Captain Midnight]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

That didn't stop me from killing you the other night.

In your ezmode streak A1. Were you one of the 4xA1 lances I encountered? I'm unfortunately stuck grinding lights at the moment for XP so I take a lot of bad beats in my Commandos. I'm pretty sure my team has dominated you hard on multiple occasions so I'm not too worried, hell even if I lose 100% of my games in a Commando I wouldn't be too worried.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 02 December 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[Codejack]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

In your ezmode streak A1. Were you one of the 4xA1 lances I encountered? I'm unfortunately stuck grinding lights at the moment for XP so I take a lot of bad beats in my Commandos. I'm pretty sure my team has dominated you hard on multiple occasions so I'm not too worried, hell even if I lose 100% of my games in a Commando I wouldn't be too worried.

Nope; I gaussed your butt.

[Captain Midnight]

Well then it sounds like we have had some fun rounds together! :-) I don't mind dying when it comes to INGAME and while I hate streaks I understand why people use them. Lights are very annoying and you don't get extra points for using a harder mech, it's natural for people to use the best mech they can.

I just have a problem with the Streak A1 being the best mech, so I advocate nerfs on the forums. I have a very different ingame personality compared to my forum personality. Ingame I play the game we have, on the forums I advocate the game I want to have.

I am kinda snarky though sometimes and I ask streak A1s what they plan to do on the 4th. :-)

Edited by Captain Midnight, 02 December 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Webber]

Notice how codejack just keeps coming out with defensive aggressive comments when people comment on his skill or credibility? Hilarious to watch, but he must be a sad sad mechwarrior.

[Codejack]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Well then it sounds like we have had some fun rounds together! :-) I don't mind dying when it comes to INGAME and while I hate streaks I understand why people use them. Lights are very annoying and you don't get extra points for using a harder mech, it's natural for people to use the best mech they can.

I just have a problem with the Streak A1 being the best mech, so I advocate nerfs on the forums. I have a very different ingame personality compared to my forum personality. Ingame I play the game we have, on the forums I advocate the game I want to have.

Oh, please don't take anything as an insult; you were tough.

But so am I. Again, I only PUG, but my win rate is over 50%

And I agree about playing the game we have; I just see the balance problem differently: I get killed by 2 Jenners working together. That's fair. If they don't, they're meat. That's fair.

But in, say, my Gaussphract, 2xGauss, 2xMLAS, 1 Jenner will kill me. I can take an Atlas or an Awesome, if I'm good (and right now, if I'm lucky), but I can't take a light, and since I have no missile hardpoints, there is no weapon I can load that can take a light.

As a result of this, I find myself all too often as the only heavy in a group full of lights... and I'm tempted to just power down and wait it out, because I know that I will die without ever hitting a thing.

Then, of course, I find myself in my streakcat in a heavy/assault round.... not optimal.

Fix the netcode and I will change my loadout, but how varied does it get? 6xSRM6 with better hit detection sounds like an overall loser for the Jenner, if you ask me.

[Codejack]

Webber, on 02 December 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Notice how codejack just keeps coming out with defensive aggressive comments when people comment on his skill or credibility? Hilarious to watch, but he must be a sad sad mechwarrior.

Isn't it interesting how my tone reflects the person I am speaking to; almost as if sometimes I have to clearly spell out the point of a comment so that a person who isn't very intelligent will understand, with perhaps an underlying amusing insult that they do not.

[Captain Midnight]

My problem with the A1 isn't the effectiveness, it's the lack of skill. Same with LRMs. I don't think in a game where everyone has to aim their weapons there should exist a weapon system where you don't have to aim. Anyone who thinks streaks are fine should also think lasers ought to autoaim as well. Why shouldn't every weapon be a lockon with 100% hit rate? The short answer is because that's boring and that sucks; these same people are fine with streaks because THEY are the only ones using them. Therefore they feel unique and powerful and just ignore how easy it is.

I think a twofold fix is needed, cap speeds at a level where the lagshield does not exist (140kph is where it starts in my experience, almost EXACTLY 140kph and the hitbox starts flying around) and nerf the crap out of streaks. Perhaps every shot breaks the lock and you have to lock it up again? Maybe triple the cooldown so it's a decent alpha but zero DPS? Something.

[Rhaegor]

I am all for nerfing Jenners.

[Captain Midnight]

Rhaegor, on 02 December 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I am all for nerfing Jenners.

Jenners are insanely OP too, they should both get nerfed instread of neither.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 02 December 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Codejack]

Captain Midnight, on 02 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

My problem with the A1 isn't the effectiveness, it's the lack of skill. Same with LRMs. I don't think in a game where everyone has to aim their weapons there should exist a weapon system where you don't have to aim. Anyone who thinks streaks are fine should also think lasers ought to autoaim as well. Why shouldn't every weapon be a lockon with 100% hit rate? The short answer is because that's boring and that sucks; these same people are fine with streaks because THEY are the only ones using them. Therefore they feel unique and powerful and just ignore how easy it is.

I think a twofold fix is needed, cap speeds at a level where the lagshield does not exist (140kph is where it starts in my experience, almost EXACTLY 140kph and the hitbox starts flying around) and nerf the crap out of streaks. Perhaps every shot breaks the lock and you have to lock it up again? Maybe triple the cooldown so it's a decent alpha but zero DPS? Something.

I just don't see it; the damage is no higher than boating any other set of weapons, i.e. 2xAC/20, 4xAC/2, 2xgauss, 3xPPC, whatever, except that it works at short range instead of long range and you can't concentrate your fire as well.

A good Jenner pilot will twist, turn and fly so that the damage gets spread out; I have seen them take 8 unblocked alpha strikes before dying. They can RUN out of range by then.

FYI: I just reloaded my A1 with SRM6s; I was lag missing an Atlas at 100m.

[Codejack]

Rhaegor, on 02 December 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I am all for nerfing Jenners.

See, I'm not actually after nerfing anything; I think that solving the bugs will sort most of the issues out, and if not, then they can rebalance it later. This is beta.

Yes, SSRMs are nice because they circumvent the lag problem; Jenners are nice because they exploit the lag problem. They are perfectly countering each other right now, and when the code is done, it won't matter.

Besides, Jenners are so good at killing everything else, shouldn't there be something on the field that they fear?

[Captain Midnight]

Yeah the lag is killer it messes up the system for sure, I know what you're saying... The problem is that PPCs are really hard to use at any range. Gauss are not very hard but you do need to aim.

The problem I guess is just that after 10 hours of play a streak A1 will break quadruple digit damage. After 10 hours in a gaussapult you probably still miss at least 10% of your shots even if you are a prodigal FPS player. Zero skill weapons should inherently be worse than ANY skill weapons. And dramatically worse than massive skill weapons.

Breaking quadruple digit damage with an AC2 cataphract for example is very very difficult, perhaps impossibly difficult. But in a streak A1 you get quadruple digit damage for basically no effort in comparison. That just isn't right.

The only quadruple digit damage I see on a regular basis is Jenners and LRM/SSRM boats. Nothing else can touch that. That SCREAMS imbalance. Saying "jenners are OP BS, so A1s should be OP BS too!" What if 4Ps autoaimed for Torso and were OP too? The game would suck! The less skill in the game, the more the game sucks and the more it's like call of duty.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 02 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Codejack, on 02 December 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I've had it with the "Streakcats are OP; there's no way that I'm just a sucky mech builder and pilot!" threads. Here's what happens:

I have 4 mech that I rotate through:

Mission 1: Guncat; 1 kill, 2 assists, wound up getting killed by a pack of Jenners, there might have been a Cicada in there, I don't know because I never got a good look at them.

Mission 2: Gaussphract; 2 kills, 2 assists, win

Mission 3: C4 Catapult, LRM-boat, 1xMLAS; 0 kills, 1 assist, killed by Jenners

Mission 4: Streakcat; 3 kills, 1 assists, win

Mission 5: Guncat; 0 kills, swarmed by lights, died early

Mission 6: Gaussphract; 0 kills, 1 assist, killed by 4-man

Mission 7: LRM-boat; 0 kills, 0 assists, swarmed by lights, died early

Mission 8: Streakcat; 1 kill, 3 assists, killed by 2 Jenners working together

Mission 9: Guncat; 0 kills, 1 assist, killed by lights

Mission 10: Gaussphract, 0 kills, 0 assists, killed by lights

Mission 11: LRM-boat; 0 kills, 0 assists, killed by concentrated LRM fire

Mission 12: Streakcat; 3 kills, 3 assists, capture win

Here, I'll help you:

Guncat - screwed by aiming slow projectiles versus fast mechs; best at range against targets with no cover
Gaussafract - see above
Skillcat - all it requires is 270m range and a brief line of sight; Streak lock doesn't break due to LOS and you're fast enough to maintain Streak range against everything except the absolute fastest (and even then, they're almost completely shreded by the time they outrun you)
LRMcat - sucks within 180m and requires people helping you (ie, not in groups except for premades and the smartest of PUGs - or the dumbest of opponents)

Now, bringing Jenners into the mix, all of them are currently running the Jenner-D cause it has JJs, 2 missile hard points, and 4 energy hard points. That means a 150kph tweaked XL engine, 1 JJ to abuse the currently broken system, 4 lasers, and 2 Streaks with max ammo. Streaks are currently only hitting the torso (someone tell me why it has taken them this long to decide that the short range missiles and scatter to the legs just like LRMs) and your nose is a large enough target where it takes next to no targetting skill. So, they lance around and tear you a new one while you can do absolutely nothing because you lack the speed to escape on your gun/lrm mechs and your AMS, if you have it, doesn't do anything against it.

So, you ask why you shouldn't take your SkillCat? Your playing good mech designs in a sandbox which is too small for you to take adequate advantage. As for Jenners, yes, they're broken. But, can you imagine what the current game would be like with SkillCats running around and no Jenners to somewhat counter you?