97 replies to this topic

[Pando]

Awesome! Thank's for the answers!

[o0Marduk0o]

Sajuk Kar, on 04 December 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Could you link to that please?

For your reading pleasure.
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1474814

[Skyefox]

EmperorMyrf, on 04 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

So if we were to completely follow how tabletop works, we would have clear and distinct tiers of equipment. When a new tier of tech is introduced (like how clan is about to hit next year) then it makes all previous tech obsolete. I know I myself do not want that, and from what I can tell the devs feel the same. Any build using any level of tech should still stand a chance against the highest level of tech, as it will provide a more rich experience to the game. That's how the game works now (more or less, still needs a hair of tweaking but that's coming anyways), and I hope that trend continues.

A very very exaggerated example of tiers could be world of tanks. If you've played it at all, you'll learn that anything two tiers above you will not be hurt by anything you fire and you will get absolutely trashed in one hit. I think the game would be best if it were to steer as far away from that as possible.

An AC/20 does AC/20 damage, no matter the Mech, no matter the Tech. The fact is, someone with DHS can fire his with much less concern for his heat curve, therefore giving him the technological "advantage";HOWEVER, if his aim is super garbeast, then it won't really matter and the dude with standard HS is going to outgun him anyway. So again, every advantage is useless in the hands of less skilled players, and those same technological gimmicks will not make or break a firefight. These upgrades are available to everyone, so there really is no big deal concerning whether someone has ES, or DHS, or FF armor, etc. These are tiny tweaks to better suit a player's desired performance from his Mech. This isn't Soviet Russia, just because poor Boris is still using 3025 tech doesn't mean Ivan isn't going to be challenged in his 3050 Swaggernaut.

[Xander Pappyson]

Hetfeng321, on 03 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

10 to 15 questions, an hour or two hours... so... 6 to 8 minutes per question, 15 seconds per word (on average)? Unless you are missing many, many fingers, you should be able to address all the questions in well under two hours. Considering that feedback is the main point of a beta, 2 hours out of an 9 hour work day, 20% of your work time, is not an outrageous period to spend collaborating with your community, the community that gave you money, the community that you are building this game for.

Really dude,

How does your calculation incorporate time to think on the right answer for the questions? This isn't lightning round. And BTW getting weekly feedback from our feedback = HUGE. Honelty getting something back every other week that has positive truthful answers to the constructive questions we ask works for me. I feel sorry for you that you need more. Let the Devs DEV man.

Bounty Dogg, on 04 December 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Guys, we are our own worst enemies here. We complain that the Devs dont listen? Its because we've made them standoffish by what we say/how we say it. We complain content comes out too fast with bugs? Thats cus WE'RE the Beta Testers! part of the reason we're HERE is to help quickly find and report those bugs to help hte process along, NOT to scream about how said bug has ruined the game/destroyed the game. Content is not coming out quickly enough? It has to be readied. If they thought we could HANDLE 3/4ths complete content with bugs that needed stamping out, they'd pass it to us so we could shorten the process by pointing out the where the bugs are, how they occur, steps to make them REcur, and all possible info on it. Beta shouldnt be charging real money? While I partly agree, They do have to sink in funds to keep this thing running. The fact that they made it a choice for us to support to game, instead of asking for a monthly fee, is better than (IMO) the alternative: you know, this game we're all passionate about (positively or negatively) CLOSING DOWN. Cus yes.....that can still very well happen. And I get the distinct feeling that those arguing negatively still see value in this game, or at least potential, or they wouldnt be arguing.....they'd have left by now.

Forgive me for rambling, but my point is really this.......If we want them to TREAT us as Beta Testers....then we have to start ACTING like Beta testers. The more maturely and accurately we can report bugs in a timely manner with accurate information to recreate, and the more we can fight down our passions that need to hurt something because the game is not we envision it to be, the more the Devs will TRUST us with bigger issues, like the testing of 2.0 heat sinks.

you don't give Fire to a child to play with.......either they or you WILL get burned. Time to start showing PGI/IGP we're not children.....anymore.

Agree 100%

[EmperorMyrf]

Skyefox, on 04 December 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

An AC/20 does AC/20 damage, no matter the Mech, no matter the Tech. The fact is, someone with DHS can fire his with much less concern for his heat curve, therefore giving him the technological "advantage";HOWEVER, if his aim is super garbeast, then it won't really matter and the dude with standard HS is going to outgun him anyway. So again, every advantage is useless in the hands of less skilled players, and those same technological gimmicks will not make or break a firefight. These upgrades are available to everyone, so there really is no big deal concerning whether someone has ES, or DHS, or FF armor, etc. These are tiny tweaks to better suit a player's desired performance from his Mech. This isn't Soviet Russia, just because poor Boris is still using 3025 tech doesn't mean Ivan isn't going to be challenged in his 3050 Swaggernaut.

lol @ swaggernaught

So you're saying a skilled pilot will drop an unskilled pilot. Sure, they should and they probably will with or without true DHS.

Remove every variable except the loadout. To keep things simple, lets use a HBK-4P (simple because one weapon type). Lets imagine a loadout with 6 ML and 26 SHS. He'll be running at roughly 43% heat neutrality.

Now imagine a true DHS build. 9 ML and 23 DHS. 3/2 more firepower, and 51% heat neutrality. If the two pilots are the same skill level, the DHS build is going to trash the other every time. Introducing the 1.4 DHS system just lessens the performance gap between the two builds. Now the heat neutrality would be 42%, meaning there's only one advantage between the two builds instead of two. But there's still an advantage, so it is still considered an upgrade.

(The above example was chosen as is because the heat handling lined up in the end. that was intentional)

[Falanin]

Garth Erlam, on 03 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Q: Can we please at least try DHS at 2.0? It doesn't seem like much of a boost to lights who usually benefit mostly from the engine heat sinks, but heavies and assaults that use big energy weapons need the boost. [Wolfways]
A: No. Prior to releasing the Dual Heatsink upgrade the forums were abuzz with whether or not they would be mandatory on all Mechs. With the numbers we've chosen, they aren't, so I'd say we answered those questions well. [Garth]

Sir, I am very disappointed. I sincerely hope you reconsider.

[steelblueskies]

because i can't say it in mr craigs performance post in command chair, thank you for passing it along garth, and for throwing it together mr craig.

seriously, the commentary even without actual changes just yet, helps ease some anxieties.

that said any upcoming word on the user.cfg bit?

[Widghet]

Sajuk Kar, on 03 December 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Is this a joke? So this is a "beta" but we're not really beta testers, and we're not allowed to test features of the game, just accept whatever the devs tell us as truth. Like "I could core a fully armored Atlas from behind with my jenner in 3 seconds with DHS". Just believing what other tell you as fact without having any desire to verify the information yourself, that's a really great outlook to have in life.

I would LOVE to know what weapons you got on that jenner to core an Atlas in 3 secs. DHS or not, that is still alot of armor to go though. I know even with a Jenner -F with 6 meds (DHS or not 1-2 aloha strikes and your shut down) can't drop and atlas in 3 secs. 10-15 maybe if he stands still and ignores you, or strips his armor out of his back. Now, if it was you and a few others, then sure, but i wave the BS flag on just your jenner taking out a fresh atlas in 3 secs. No way. just saying.

[chumppi]

Q: Can we see the option of bypassing the opening animation in the client and go directly to the login screen (either by hitting esc, or through setting an option in the client? The long opening can be rather annoying after a couple of times. [Farix]
A: *Cough pressspacebar cough* [Garth]

Garth didn't quite grasp the point of that question. Please let me either choose from the launcher of add a "intro=0" line to the config file of the game to skip the intros.

[DegeneratePervert]

Guys. Their logo is a cattle skull because how quickly piranha skeletonize a cow is a standard unit of measurement.

[Kyrie]

The answer on DHS 2.0 is expected. However, I will reiterate others points that full 2.0 DHS is necessary to make energy canon builds viable.

[Garth Erlam]

Klaus, on 04 December 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

I think they said somewhere the DHS nerf was before they were too OP on lighter mechs. I run a Cicada A2 with 6 Medium Lasers and 16 DHS. On a cold map I can Alpha Strike I **** you not 4 to 5 times in a row. With DHS being 2.0 that would be what? 7 or 8? Considering 2~4 alphas can fry almost anything's butt off that seems a little insane. The other side of the coin would be to make things generate more heat. Over all I think it's more of an issue that the bigger mechs are bigger yet still have the same amount of slots. I don't see the logic in that what-so-ever.

This is pretty much what I was referring to, in general. Also, and what people are missing, is that it would make the SHS->DHS utterly mandatory on almost every single Mech. Mandatory. As in, why on earth would you not be doing this? When I can go (hey, same Cicada) to alpha striking over a half dozen times for 30 damage each, that becomes an issue. In fact, it happened quite a lot in testing. That's a dual gauss in damage every single weapons cycle. Eight times in a row. So 240 damage.

The problem most people are experiencing in the heavier Mechs lies in the heavy heat weapons like the PPC/ERPPC, which are being worked on. Once those are tweaked, it'll be a very different story.

[Zyllos]

Garth Erlam, on 04 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

This is pretty much what I was referring to, in general. Also, and what people are missing, is that it would make the SHS->DHS utterly mandatory on almost every single Mech. Mandatory. As in, why on earth would you not be doing this? When I can go (hey, same Cicada) to alpha striking over a half dozen times for 30 damage each, that becomes an issue. In fact, it happened quite a lot in testing. That's a dual gauss in damage every single weapons cycle. Eight times in a row. So 240 damage.

The problem most people are experiencing in the heavier Mechs lies in the heavy heat weapons like the PPC/ERPPC, which are being worked on. Once those are tweaked, it'll be a very different story.

There is a MUCH better way of fixing this issue of DHS then having them split between how they are equipped. Here is my suggestion post about the issue:

[Sug] Current DHS vs. Proposed DHS

[Wolfways]

Garth Erlam, on 04 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

The problem most people are experiencing in the heavier Mechs lies in the heavy heat weapons like the PPC/ERPPC, which are being worked on. Once those are tweaked, it'll be a very different story.

They might need more than just tweaked.
My main mech is a K3 (for anyone who doesn't know it's a K2 with ERPPC's and 20DHS). I have no other upgrades apart from an XL engine because with the DHS nothing else fits.
I can fire three times (linked) before overheating, then have to run for cover to hide and do nothing to help out my teammates until my mech cools down to at least under 50% so i can fire again (still don't understand that). Because of the weight of the ERPPC's a couple of AC2's are out of the question so the only other weapons i have are two ML's and two MG's (another broken weapon).
I could replace the XL with a standard smaller engine and use two more DHS but i really need that speed to get into cover so often.
The K2 and K3 are just really bad for heat.

But tbh if there's no chance of getting better DHS then i'd at least hope...no i'd expect engine and other heat sinks to be equal, as the way they are now they are clearly a benefit to light mechs and less so the bigger the mech gets.

[zigg1]

[color=#959595]Q: Noticing a lot of MMOs that have had strayed from previous rules and canon (i.e. Dungeons & Dragons Online, Star Trek Online, Star Wars, etc), are we going to see a lot of "new" content that has never been used during Table Top or previous MechWarrior video games? [Ryvucz][/color]
[color=#959595]A: Not for awhile, if much at all. There's so much from the existing universe we can use already. [Garth][/color]
they won't even use the current rules why would you expect them to stick to the anything

[PPO Kuro]

PapaKilo, on 03 December 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Unless they're going to reduce heat as a whole by 20-30%, it will never be balanced. They could reduce the rate of fire, or reduce the amount of heat per shot while keeping the current rate of fire. Not just for certain weapons either -- every single one needs work. Even after reducing the overall heat, doubles STILL need to be full-strength.

Full-strength double heat sinks wouldn't fix heat the way it is right now. They would help a lot though.

I'm fully maxed out on my Jenners -- Master all the way. I'm not using ER weapons at all, just standard stuff. Yet I'm overheating like a **** with four medium lasers and two Streak-2s even with 13 double heat sinks on Frozen City. Full-strength doubles wouldn't make it heat-neutral, but they'd give me another alpha before the overheat warning goes off. Guess what -- that GIVES ME MORE OPTIONS.

What's going to happen when Clan tech gets here and we have ER weapons that generate even more heat? Every single 'Mech on the field is going to be overheating 20 times a match with these "Improved" Heat Sinks.

Edit: And you're gawd damn right I'm angry that they aren't even considering giving us full-strength doubles. That's bullsh!t. I know it, you know it, and they know it.

It's called trigger discipline! Overheat much? Stop being trigger happy! Too much heat generated by your weapons? LOSE THE ML!! Take SL or something. Ugh. ><

[rgreat]

Garth Erlam, on 04 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

This is pretty much what I was referring to, in general. Also, and what people are missing, is that it would make the SHS->DHS utterly mandatory on almost every single Mech.

There are already utterly mandatory. SHS is plain downgrade even now.
On ALL mechs and configs what generate heat.
Move on.

Quote

Mandatory. As in, why on earth would you not be doing this? When I can go (hey, same Cicada) to alpha striking over a half dozen times for 30 damage each, that becomes an issue. In fact, it happened quite a lot in testing. That's a dual gauss in damage every single weapons cycle. Eight times in a row. So 240 damage.

Medium lasers are the best lasers, while larger ones are much less effective?
Nothing new here. They have the best DPM per Tonn values from all lasers (except SLas, which are weak).
Problem is not in DHS, problem is Med Lasers + Cicada 6 E-slots combo.

Quote

The problem most people are experiencing in the heavier Mechs lies in the heavy heat weapons like the PPC/ERPPC, which are being worked on. Once those are tweaked, it'll be a very different story.

Lets hope.
But still it will do nothing for stock mechs. These are still be totally ineffective.

You killed ballance when you decided that weapons must fire 2-3 times faster while keeping TT damage and heat numbers for EACH shot.

All other issues are root from it. Like double armor, like constant tweaking of heat values and more...
You add more and more tweaks which move you further and further away from canon and complicate things even more.

Basicly, you could adjuct firerate (and other non canon values) as you wanted, while keeping close to stock BattleTech values in terms of heat and damage per 10 seconds...
I wonder why you choose against it?
I bet you will never achieve stock battletech mech efficiency with your system.

Edited by rgreat, 05 December 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[rgreat]

Keep in mind i do not assume TT rules as perfect.

Some weapons can be adjucted a bit, like AC2 or Med Lasers.
But the system itself is quite ballanced AND it is more or less a holy cow for many.

[borisof007]

Kind of bummed that none of my questions got answered, I thought they were good questions!

• What is being done to help new pilots learn the ways of piloting effectively? Training map, target range, separate individual queues for first 10 matches specifically for new players using trial mechs only? Sorry, I hate queuing up with trial users on my team as an experienced pilot.
  
• When are jump jets being fixed so that more jump jets allow for stronger/longer thrust (giggity)
  
• With the introduction of ECM's soon, what other sort of mech upgrades/equipment/modules can we expect to see in the coming weeks/months?
  
• When PPC's get their electronic disruption effect added soon, will this disrupt systems like missile locks, target info sharing for indirect fire, thermal/night vision, or more?
  
• Doing camo specs on Founders mechs still has that worn out armor/paint look. I want a shiny new ride! Please let us really make our mechs stand out with brighter colors/patterns!

[Al Bert]

borisof007, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

• When are jump jets being fixed so that more jump jets allow for stronger/longer thrust (giggity)

JJ is worked on

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1537287

--> in section Gameplay it states "* The number of jump jets effects proportionally equal to jump jets modules get replaced by damaged effects when jump jets get destroyed"

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1543279
--> more is coming

thats all i know about JJ

regards
Al Bert