99 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

i mean whats the worst thing that could happen if heat management is good on the stocks? Players go into mech lab and add more weapons since heat sink is so good now? They can't add more weapons to the stock variant because the stocks are already maxed tonnage.

Players would only need to switch out weapons. Since they arn't messing with heat optimization. if there's a problem you would know that its cuz of weapon balance. and tweek from there.

Just balance around stock mechs. Can't really go wrong there.

Edited by Tennex, 03 December 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Only if our weapons fire once every 10 seconds.

[Joseph Mallan]

Not all Canon Mech designs were heat efficient. The MMO turn needs to be more like TT. Move fire vent(however long this takes), keep moving wash repeat! Not this move fire fire fi(VENT)re, garbage we have now.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 December 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Tennex]

Roughneck45, on 03 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Only if our weapons fire once every 10 seconds.

thats wh you tweek the weapons. right now heat/heat sinks are just complicating balance for PGI. Assume that Stock variants are all relatively balanced around each other, make adjustments to weapons and heat sinks so that they are and go from there. "zero your scale" so to speak

[Taryys]

Bad idea. Firing 1/10 seconds would pretty much suck.
Stock mechs are not idea for MWO, but they are a great learning tool because they suck.

Edited by Taryys, 03 December 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Bguk]

One way to optimize heat is to not alpha all the time. I see way too many trial mech players fire everything at once. A little research before playing the game would help with the heat problems as well.

[Tennex]

Taryys, on 03 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Bad idea. Firing 1/10 seconds would pretty much suck.
Stock mechs are not idea for MWO, but they are a great learning tool because they suck.

u don't fire once every 10 seconds hwo come nobody understands lol. you balance the weapons. you can tweek damage, fire rate, anything. as long as its balanced...

What they've done at PGI is take the damage from TT and applied it as damage to the weapons while lowering the cool down. What should have been done is that Damage from TT be used as a Damage per seconds. Since its Damage/10seconds.

[Roughneck45]

Tennex, on 03 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

thats wh you tweek the weapons. right now heat/heat sinks are just complicating balance for PGI. Assume that Stock variants are all relatively balanced around each other, make adjustments to weapons and heat sinks so that they are and go from there. "zero your scale" so to speak

They didnt complicate much IMO.

All they did was let us fire our weapons at 3x the rate. Nothing is wrong with the weapons, you are just choosing to overheat yourself.

A heat neutral mech should not be easy to make, or too powerful, because then you run into the laserboat problem. Besides, it also makes heat an actual gameplay element instead of an afterthought once you have enough heatsinks.

The only problem that came from this, IMO, is that it made the gauss rifle even more attractive. Hopefully the explosion effect will balance it out.

DPS and spreadsheets never translate into an action game, so it should not be the balancing factor.

Edited by Roughneck45, 03 December 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Double heat dissipation across the board, halve the heat cap across the board. Problem solved. Canon mechs can fire more frequently, but alpha striking will shut you down.

[QuantumButler]

Something has to be done about the heat scale, that's for sure.

[Kanjejou]

If an oppoenent is at optimal range, not throwing everything you got is debilitating for you, so every trial mech user will alpah when all his weapons are in range. The problem is that rial mech have very little heat capacity

[Khobai]

Stock mechs need to be better. The stock mechs that don't overheat at all in tabletop overheat like crazy in MWO. Heatsink effectiveness needs to be at least double what it is now.

[Corvus Antaka]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Double heat dissipation across the board, halve the heat cap across the board. Problem solved. Canon mechs can fire more frequently, but alpha striking will shut you down.

This

[Tennex]

Roughneck45, on 03 December 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

All they did was let us fire our weapons at 3x the rate. Nothing is wrong with the weapons, you are just choosing to overheat yourself.

if they've actually increased firing rate at 3x. And firing rate was originally 1/10seconds and all weapons fired at the same rate. All weapons now would fire at 3/10 seconds and fire rate would be the same on all weapons.

Theres other things going on. I never played TT so i don't know if they took the actual damage from each weapon and applied it here to everyweapon while tweaking the fire rate however it feels right.

Damage from TT is a DPS not actual damage.

[Vechs]

Khobai, on 03 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Stock mechs need to be better. The stock mechs that don't overheat at all in tabletop overheat like crazy in MWO. Heatsink effectiveness needs to be at least double what it is now.

Quite possibly, just double the "tick" rate of Heatsinks, making them flush heat twice as fast. That would also be an indirect nerf to Guass rifles, by making competing AC's and energy weapons more attractive.

[Joseph Mallan]

Taryys, on 03 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Bad idea. Firing 1/10 seconds would pretty much suck.
Stock mechs are not idea for MWO, but they are a great learning tool because they suck.

I think if the sinks cycled every 4 seconds the heat issue would would more closely follow the Novel's feel of what heat was like.

[Khobai]

The problem is the weapons they tripled the rate of fire but left the heat and damage the same. That completely changes all the weapon ratios. That's why gauss is so good and ppcs are so bad.

[Lanessar]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Double heat dissipation across the board, halve the heat cap across the board. Problem solved. Canon mechs can fire more frequently, but alpha striking will shut you down.

This would literally solve 8/10 problems with stock mechs and heat issues. I may be mis-remembering, and I'm not claiming the TT rules as the "all father" of this game, but I don't believe adding additional heat sinks gave you a higher heat threshold in TT. Not sure about the Solaris rules (never played it).

Either way, the concern over heat isn't related to dissipation, but alpha strikes. Garth's three-second jenner would be unable to alpha twice and core the fictional atlas if the heat cap was 15+0.5 (SHS) or +1.0 (DHS). It would kaboom on the second alpha strike.

Second 1: Alpha 5 heat ML x 6 = 30 (Heat cap ~28) = overheat.
Second 2: Heat dissipated: 2.8
Second 3: Heat dissipated: 2.8
Second 4: Heat dissipated: 2.8 Alpha 5 heat ML x 6 = 30 (+18 existing) = kaboom.

[QuantumButler]

Lanessar, on 03 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

This would literally solve 8/10 problems with stock mechs and heat issues. I may be mis-remembering, and I'm not claiming the TT rules as the "all father" of this game, but I don't believe adding additional heat sinks gave you a higher heat threshold in TT. Not sure about the Solaris rules (never played it).

Either way, the concern over heat isn't related to dissipation, but alpha strikes. Garth's three-second jenner would be unable to alpha twice and core the fictional atlas if the heat cap was 15+0.5 (SHS) or +1.0 (DHS). It would kaboom on the second alpha strike.

Second 1: Alpha 5 heat ML x 6 = 30 (Heat cap ~28) = overheat.
Second 2: Heat dissipated: 2.8
Second 3: Heat dissipated: 2.8
Second 4: Heat dissipated: 2.8 Alpha 5 heat ML x 6 = 30 (+18 existing) = kaboom.

No, heat threshold was always static in TT, however the way heatsinks worked meant that if you had enough sinks to dissipate your heat you could spike your heat as high as you wanted and suffer no ill effects because heat dissipation happened before the ill-effects of high heat were applied.

[Lefty Lucy]

QuantumButler, on 03 December 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

No, heat threshold was always static in TT, however the way heatsinks worked meant that if you had enough sinks to dissipate your heat you could spike your heat as high as you wanted and suffer no ill effects because heat dissipation happened before the ill-effects of high heat were applied.

Heat threshold was *kind of* like HS+30 because as long as you stay under your HS dissipation you never touch the heat scale at all.