2028 replies to this topic

[hydrix]

I really like the ECM. I just feel it makes some scout mech's (wich cant carry ECM) a bit useless..

[Not a Number]

Which would be a good reason to tone it down. It would stop it from being virtually mandatory and give people more incentive to play another mech. All Jenners have jump jets and all Ravens and Commandos could have ECM.

[Lusankya]

I think the only real problem with ECM right now is the ability to "stack" them. If it only took one ECM to counter multiple enemy ECM that would help a lot.

[Kraita]

sp1ce weezl, on 07 December 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Didnt noticed that ECM has no weight or slot ... thats pretty decent for my commando I guess, where 1,5 tonns and 2 slots would realy mean something.

Well I mean high weight costs 1.5 ain't exactly a lot. An AC20 is powerful but it weights a lot and has limited ammo so it balances.
Basically everything needs advantages and disadvantages.

[Buckminster]

I'll be curious to see what the next patch holds. I hope that after a couple weeks of seeing ECM in action, PGI makes some tweaks to it.

Although, I think some of this could also be handled through matchmaking. I've had plenty of good matches where only one or two mechs per side has ECM, and it becomes a tactic and not a must-have piece of equipment. I've also see matches where one team has 4 ECMs, and two of them are on Atlases, and those just become stomps.

Maybe if matchmaker took number of ECMs into account, or used some other method other than mech class, we'd be seeing less of the crazy outmatched games.

[Scratx]

Aresye, on 06 December 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Forgot to mention in my earlier post, but one thing people need to realize in this thread is not everybody that's irked by ECM uses LRM or streak boats.

I personally think ECM is op in its current state, due to a multitude of factors said earlier. I have 4 mechs. None of which have a single lock-on weapon.

This.

Do not ascribe to an ECM detractor the "He is an LRM/SSRM boater, of course he'd be mad!" tag. It's not true in many, if not most, cases.

thalarg, on 06 December 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

After several days of play I now think ECM is not that bad. This is after removing all streaks from all mechs. Playing solo.

Thank you for admitting ECM is broken as it is. I bolded the most relevant part.

(disclaimer: I am not and I in fact hate streakcats and not a fan of streakamandos)

Damocles69, on 06 December 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

leave ecm where it is. buff bap and tag

I'm of two minds here. Yes, BAP and TAG could use a buff to enhance its usefulness against ECM as it is. TAG especially could use a buff either way.

ECM... I'm thinking what is perhaps the best nerf to it may be reducing the effectiveness of the "Hidden" effect on a mech which lacks a non-countered ECM. (that is, if you are merely benefitting from another's ECM)

Maybe simply halving targetable range or something like that (~450m targeting range? That's Large Laser effective range) while still making lock-on harder and MAYBE adding a deliberate miss chance to Streak missiles fired at ECM-covered mechs under those conditions to simulate the fact ECM interferes with Streak tracking.

The mech using the ECM would still benefit from the full package.

This doesn't really solve the Atlas D-DC blobs, though... which can be an issue. So maybe allowing a single counter-ECM to counter EVERY ECM in range would work.

I actually like the ECM concept and aspects of its implementation, but it's really too good as it is, it's a no brainer to carry it if you can and makes most mech variants of mechs that can carry them totally obsolete and pointless.

[Mordin Ashe]

DrBunji, on 07 December 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

Lots of people in this thread that need to suck it up and realize that standing 1km from the combat and winning games by holding LMB, or abusing SSRMs to win every brawl and two shot any light mech isn't "balanced".

Ill go as far as to say that the TAG could use a range buff, but other than that... LRM's aren't supposed to be the be-all end-all weapon in the game - there is only one chassi that relies exclusively on missiles, yet that has become the most common mech on the field. It's a support weapon, jesus christ.

A streak cat backed up with a ECM boat is still as dangerous. Oh whats that? Streak Cats can't operate as well as lonewolf mechs? You can't run off on your own and expect to get 3+ kills? I'm sorry my stock of ***** to give is growing dangerously low.

TL;DR
Cry some more missilespammers, take your QQ home with you and L2P

This isn't possible since closed beta. Maybe you need to grow up a bit? Or maybe you need to "L2P", since you evidently get crushed by LRMs/Streaks, and both are rather easy to avoid... Hope there will be less people like you in future on the forums.

Anyway, I gave it some thought and I hope the devs will not nerf the ECM too much. It adds so much depth for light Mechs and it created a great gameplay environment for them, it would be bad to loose it. I especially like the two mode system and switching. Maybe such modes can be introduced for the LRMs already mentioned as well? Lets say, one for indirect fire and one for direct fire? Same could go fo SSRMs, one more for homed fire, another for dumb fire. Since the system is already in place, why not to use it. It should add more depth for the homed missiles as well, and counter some of the trolls, like the one I just quoted.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 07 December 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Allowing 1 ECM to counter all ECMS would be a great way to stop the ECM boating going on right now and wreck havoc on these 8 man ECM premades running 8 ECM mechs. Now we are talking strategy when 1 raven runs into your bubble and suddenly your whole party bus shows up on radar and is ripe for LRM plucking cause you didnt use cover.

ECM should never negate missile locks unless the ECM mech gets within 180m of the enemy and is in disrupt mode. Buff TAG/NARC, whatever, ECM negating 2 entire weapon systems is no good, and no one should be forced to take BAP/NARC/TAG/ECM just so they can use the weapons they brought to the fight.

TAG/NARC maybe should be able to overcome ECM within the 180m disrupt mode...maybe up to 90meters? This would especially be interesting in the case of the A1 since it cant hold a TAG.

Again, I'd recommend looking to mech4's system of ECM/BAP/Active/PAssive radar as they had a very smart yet simple system.

Only achieving the ECM bubble when linking an ECM raven to a command console mech would also be a much better way to encourage teamwork than giving an atlas an ECM.

most importantly I will say again KISS, keep it simple, stupid. ECM is all over the place with what it does/doesnt do, and something more logical and intelligent like mech4's radar system would achieve much greater success imho.

The whole game is worse for the ECM changes. My KDR & win loss isn't suffering, but my enjoyment of the game and fun factor took a big hit.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 07 December 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Aaron45]

Hello,

wasnt able to read all the 48 pages full of comments. But i do agree with ppl who said: Emc is overpowered.

Bought that raven emc mech and everything went to be soo easy. stealthy flank, pick a fat alone mech or go cap.

Also there are soo many emc mechs outta there,- its a rush on emc mechs. This can be stopped with this simple addition:

EmC has a limited time to be run: 120 Seconds overall running time? you should be able to on and off emc. After those used f.example 120 seconds emc will be useless.

With that addition emc use will be reduced and only used tactically for a short period.

Hopefully they do fix that soon.

[AvatarofWhat]

I've started mastering the commando for fun and I hate how useless the non-ecm variants are. All it takes is me running into an ecm raven or commando with streaks to pretty much get instantly destroyed. I run streaks on all my commandos and if im facing a jenner with streaks then at least both of us are on(more or less since the commando is still inferior) even ground. What bothers me is not that I can't use my streaks, I could still kill them with my lasers. What bothers me is that they can use their streaks and I can't. Unless there is a friendly ecm nearby I'm pretty much screwed.

So in short: if both lights can use streaks its fine. If neither light can use streaks its fine. If i am facing a jenner streaks or no streaks its fine(the jenner-f has more weapon hardpoints then the commando so even without streaks its pretty good). If the enemy light can use streaks and I can't... well I don't know about jenners and ravens with their heavier armor but as a commando pilot with paper thin armor even when maxed out I'm pretty much screwed. There needs to be a more effective non-ecm counter to ecm, otherwise all non-ecm variants of ravens and commandos are pretty much useless against streaks. If the ECM version of those mechs are not carrying streaks, even if I am not using mine I can effectively engage them with just my lasers. So is the problem streaks or ECM on only certain variants? not too sure.

When I'm piloting an assault, heavy, or medium mech ecm is totally fine. I don't carry exclusively lock-on weapons in any build and if the enemy has streaks those mechs have enough armor to take a few hits while I finish the enemy off.

Basically I like ECM as it is but it severely hurts light mechs who can't carry it because they can easily be streaked to death without punishing the enemy right back with their own streaks. Occasionally I'll sneak up on an enemy ecm raven or commando and chew through their back armor with 2 medium pulse lasers but that's rare. Once they get lock on me I'm screwed because the bad net code makes it so their streaks totally beat my lasers. Fighting heavier mechs in those other variants(even if the enemy has streaks) is fine because they can't simply follow me around and keep pounding on me, I can simply run away and do hit and run tactics. Since the other ecm equipped lights can more or less keep up with me in speed they'll just follow me till I'm dead from their streaks.

[Reminger]

The ECM ist overpowered!

In Sight of three Mechs i couldn´t spott any enemy! This patch makes ecm-mechs so powerfull, that many players just startet to run such a mech just to win. All players without ecm loses fun and stops playing.

[Black Ivan]

ECM is way overpowered. PGI invented the cloaking device for Mechs.

[Not a Number]

Mordin Ashe, on 07 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

[...]

Anyway, I gave it some thought and I hope the devs will not nerf the ECM too much. It adds so much depth for light Mechs and it created a great gameplay environment for them, it would be bad to loose it. I especially like the two mode system and switching. Maybe such modes can be introduced for the LRMs already mentioned as well? Lets say, one for indirect fire and one for direct fire? Same could go fo SSRMs, one more for homed fire, another for dumb fire. Since the system is already in place, why not to use it. It should add more depth for the homed missiles as well, and counter some of the trolls, like the one I just quoted.

The problem is that while ECM currently does add quite some depth for the mechs using it, it also removes a lot of depth from the game as a whole when it should of course be adding to it. Many previously valid tactics either no longer work or have become irrelevant because of how powerful ECM is.

I do like the Counter ECM mode they implemented and its pretty similar to the ECCM (Counter-Counter Measures) from the tabletop, so it fits pretty well. Maybe Counter mode does need to be able to cancel out two opposing ECMs instead of just one (unlike tabletop) but it would probably only have a minor effect on the game at most. Besides, its already the most effective counter to ECM as it is.

I'm quite confident that stripping the sensor range reduction from ECM entirely would both balance it (mostly anyway, but that's not so bad) and still keep the equipment interesting enough to use. Possibly more so because ECM users would have to actively move around harassing enemy mechs or protecting NARC'd allies, instead of just sitting back and letting the sensor range reduction do all the work for them.

[krolmir]

I think that ECM's should be availible on every mech. However, I also feel i needs to be not quite so overpowered as to eliminate the Fire Support Role, which is to make smarter Assault Mech pilots. It ruins role warfare for mechs that cannot equip it. Nothing like going to scout a ridge line, turning a corner and bam 2 lance's in the face. Just got out of a match-up where no one on my team had one, and the opposing team had 4 or 5. You might as well gave them an instant win button.

Edited by krolmir, 07 December 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[KalebFenoir]

inquisitor, on 06 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

No, it's reducing to 25%, not by 25%.

Yes, I noticed someone posted the actual patch notes. Kind of an odd thing to me, that ratio. I can understand that at long ranges (for missile lock), it cuts your active range down a notch, and that maybe when you get closer the ECM effect is more powerful, so your active locks and sensors have even more trouble (making you only able to target at 25% range of some medium to short range weapons), but if it's ALL weapons at ALL ranges cut down to 25% targetting range... well, that's just broken. That doesn't even sound right at all.

I like the idea of ECM in the game, but it needs to be balanced. Right now it seems a bit all-or-nothing. Either it blanks your targetting completely at all ranges, or....nothing. There is no other half to that equation.

[TarkaTarquol]

ECM really only affects those who run 'Mechs that require a lock-on. Me? Hell if I care about this ECM. Running my Jenner-F with its 6 Energy hardpoints, I don't need any lock-on to waste my enemies. I've noticed no real change in my gameplay, even when I get that "Low Signal" alert on my mini-map. Even against an ECM Commando, I can still chase it down and core it from the back, and larger 'Mechs I can still run circles around.

I'm sure I'd have a lot more grief if I still ran my HBK-4SP, but I got rid of that once I realized I'm one of those who favours speed over firepower.

[krolmir]

Maybe make elite module slot unlock an ECM unlock instead? Just a thought.

Also ECM is killing the light mech role a bit. I regularly see a light mech walking behind Assaults, instead of scouting and spotting. Some light mechs, however, are really using ECM to their advantage; getting out there and hunting down targets and spotting for Fire Support Mech's with immpunity, not having to worry about Streak Cat's and the like.

Edited by krolmir, 07 December 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[Snuglninja]

It's not balanced at all ecm was not intended to deny lock just counter bap, Artemis, and narc. No other sensors are affected. I should still be able to see you lock on to you with streaks and lrms I just loose Artemis. I hate streak cats also but we can't fix them by going so far away from canon and inventing tech that is more from star trek then battletech.

[Chemie]

ECM kills BAP but BAP does nothing to ECM. Breaks the rock-paper-sxissors if you ask me

ECM cancels BAP, LRM, SSRM, NARC and has no counter (other than close range ECM) Why?

[Cycleboy]

Just jumping on the end of this. ECM should not fully protect those that don't actually have the equipment. At <50m I'm trading shots with an Awesome. Can't even get partial lock. Either let make "in your f-ing face" distance allow lock (even if 25% slower or something) or let SSRM finally dummy-fire without lock. No weapon should stop firing if you have them in visual right in your face. No warrior would ever allow that.