2028 replies to this topic

[Xander Pappyson]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 December 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

never happens in pug gameplay mate and using tag yourself is suicide so... just don't make up scenarios that a: relies on others being the perfect helper, and b: gameplay that puts others out so it never happens.

I guess you mean don't make up a PUG scenario. Copy. When I post in the forums I will attempt to delineate between working as a team in a premade or how to run around with my head chopped off in a PUG. No worries brah.

Edited by Xander Pappyson, 07 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Smegmw]

Yay ECM it's exactly what the game needed. Do not change it in the least. It is perfect as is.

[Mack1]

ECM and Exploding gauss may be great in Premade groups with counter ECM and Tag but it has totally broken PUG matches

This video should be watched by the Dev's it explains everything.

[Cerlin]

After playing with ECM all week I would say I very much enjoy the net effect it has. Encourages more team work, rewards situational awareness, generally makes the matches a lot more interesting. I say by far the most interesting tactical change introduced since closed beta.

[Ludens]

As they do with the upcoming new mech, the developers should also announce the upcoming useless mech, to give us a chance to save a few credits.

[Latvanis]

ECM is ower powered ,and here is my opinion why.
If you are in a disadvantage (not at certain situations or circumstances[color="#000000"])[/color] because you dont have it ,makes it owerpowered.
My explenation.
My faworite mech is CICADA 2A ,but it does not have ECM. And because of that I'm easy to spot ,easy target for LRMs because of that CICADA 3M is "better" mech to use. Its the same for Raven , but dont know about Commando and Atlas. If CICADA 3M is ment to be just better than any other CICADA , Raven ,then ok ,no problem. But if its not then

My soloution. Make ECM dubble edge sword. Wich you can toggle on or off. And when hes on ,it disrupt every mech. Inclouding that mech whos using it.
Result. You can only spot your enemy when he can spot you. You will not be in a 100% pure advantage by useing it. And there wont be every single mech with EMC running around ,it specialy Atlas DC LRM boat with ECM.

Edited by D1irte, 07 December 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[CatHerder]

This ECM wreaks of commercial pressure: add something to the game that will make it easier to attract new audiences who aren't as familiar with the strategic/tactical aspects necessary to be good at this shooter.

Translation: attract some of the COD folks that just like to run-and-gun...

Had the devs really been thinking of the paper-rocks-scissors aspect that they SHOULD have been thinking of, then BAP would offset ECM short-range, or other countermeasures would have been put in place.

In particular, I remember reading that this ECM version was a combination of 3 different versions from canon (Guardian ECM, Angel ECM and a 3rd one I forget). Before you complain that this game isn't canon: CANON IS WHAT IT'S BASED ON!

If I go and complain that an ERLAS weighs 5 tons when it should weigh only 3, and generates 10 heat when it should only generate 7, what will the answer be? "That's non-canon". Well, since we don't give a crap about TT/Canon anymore, let's just go ahead and lower the heat requirements, or up the damage/range of some weapons just to make them "more usable and attractive". Hell: let's lower the firing rate of the AC20 to 2 seconds and its heat to 3! Also, all this talk of "this is IS not Clan" would then be baseless - if nobody cares whether this is TT, then why try to stick to TT rules? Why make a distinction between IS/Clan?

So...after ranting...here's a less-nonsensical diatribe:

ECM is important for recon boats so they don't get nailed while relaying information to their lance/star/etc... But there's a reason it only covered that specific boat in TT.

I think ECM should only be allowed on light mechs (arguably, the CICADA as well, since it's fast enough to be used as a recon mech), but any variant of light mech. It should also only cover that mech except in jamming mode in which case it should have a limited (90m? 120m? 180m?) range - i.e. for scout-to-scout chases. It should continue to function as-is, but only for the boat it's installed on. However: if ECM is jammed - detection (and missile lock-on) should be allowed.

Its current form is incompatible with unorganized matchmaking because it's IMPOSSIBLE to determine how many ECM boats your team will have before launch - let alone opfor. Naturally, the team with more ECM boats will have a considerable advantage over the opposition because they can continue to be covered by ECM even while jamming enemy ECM.

The only people happy with this are the morons who never learned that cover can block LRMs and break missile lock, and never learned to move tactically through the battlefield (i.e. just want to charge in and blow stuff up). Granted - LRM trajectories in the past made cover useless, but that has since been fixed and I for one was happy with where things were.

Am I delusional? Maybe... but then again, MechWarrior games have always been billed as "the thinking man's shooter" precisely because of the careful planning one puts into configuring one's rig prior to battle, as well as the strategy and tactics that needed to be employed throughout.

Edited by CatHerder, 07 December 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[HaMaT]

Devs need to limit ECMs to 2 per team imho

[Capt Cole 117]

Premade will find ways to counter ecm, pugs are as crappy as they were before. Nothing has changed.

[Lacewing]

My opinion and how i see the game right now:

There are no LRMs flying through the air, there are no missle boats at all since ecm came out. Because to mount a LRM launcher is useless, it's better to mount an additional laser instead.

I'm piloting an atlas and have a LRM 20 mounted but allmost never use it, because you can't hit moving targets without a lock on and you never get a lock on cause all enemies are cloaked.

The counter to the light mechs with lag shield (SSRM) is now useless too with same reasons why the LRMs are.

The result:
Allmost all mechs have brawler fit and that will not change until something happes with the ECM. (For example cloak only the mech with ECM.)

That's all and sorry for the broken english.

[Latvanis]

Capt Cole 117, on 07 December 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Premade will find ways to counter ecm, pugs are as crappy as they were before. Nothing has changed.

Then kill ECM for good.
Reasons. ECM will not work in premade.
In pugs ,mostly brawlers will be an option Because LRM SRM are partialy killed.
There is no reason for ECM it is just killing pub games even more

Edited by D1irte, 07 December 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Capt Cole 117]

D1irte, on 07 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Then kill ECM for good.
Reasons. ECM will not work in premade.
In pugs ,mostly brawlers will be an option Because LRM SRM are partialy killed.
There is no reason for ECM it is just killing pub games even more

Because it adds strategy, if you don't want frustrating games join a group, its super easy.

[CatHerder]

Here's an interesting tidbit from http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite:

"The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.[2]"

I think the problem here is the interpretation of the 180m statement. The way I read it, is that ECM will only be effective *for the mech carrying it* up to 180m. That means that the mech can be detected, locked on, and fired upon from further distances, but when the missiles reach 180m, they lose lock and track. Likewise, if he's 179m in front of you, you won't be able to detect/target the mech in question (unless you have a BAP, which will let you know that you're being jammed).

I think the devs interpreted the 180m statement to mean that it would cover friendly units inside that umbrella. That's not how I read that statement and it's not how it works as per the rules/canon.

So... PLEASE FIX IT so my founder's money won't have gone down the drain...

[Ogresan]

I love ECM and what it has added to the game. I don't think it is working quite right though as it completely negates targeting outside its range when it should only delay it. Other then that its working exactly as it should.
I don't like that it is limiting the choices for mechs for different roles, but I wouldn't spread its ability to be used to other chassis either. There should be a difference between the variants and this is a decent way of making that difference.

Edit: Quote from Sarna.net which is a quote from the 3050 TRO.

"Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors. Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming."

Seems like it is working mostly as it is supposed to.

Edited by Ogresan, 07 December 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[StUffz]

CatHerder, on 07 December 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Here's an interesting tidbit from http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite:

"The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.[2]"

I think the problem here is the interpretation of the 180m statement. The way I read it, is that ECM will only be effective *for the mech carrying it* up to 180m. That means that the mech can be detected, locked on, and fired upon from further distances, but when the missiles reach 180m, they lose lock and track. Likewise, if he's 179m in front of you, you won't be able to detect/target the mech in question (unless you have a BAP, which will let you know that you're being jammed).

I think the devs interpreted the 180m statement to mean that it would cover friendly units inside that umbrella. That's not how I read that statement and it's not how it works as per the rules/canon.

So... PLEASE FIX IT so my founder's money won't have gone down the drain...

Nope the interpretation is quite correct. It means the ECM guards all mechs within the 180 meters to against enemey electronic targeting. Everything outside the radius is not protected by ECM.

Edited by StUffz, 07 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[Latvanis]

Capt Cole 117, on 07 December 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Because it adds strategy, if you don't want frustrating games join a group, its super easy.

It was a joke. That crap takes away every single strategy. Just take ECM and AC /Lasers. Its the best strategy now
ECM is as broken as was the 1st artemis. Where he just headshoted everything ,now even if you had old OP artemis. No 1 would give a damn... You cant use it properly any way. Nor pub nor team games. Today i played in dropship 13. Played more than 15 games. And only 3 games i had seen some rockets. And im still no shure if those misiles did anything. Because i had 0 rockets incoming in my way.

Edited by D1irte, 07 December 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[StUffz]

D1irte, on 07 December 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

It was a joke. That **** takes away every single strategy. Just take ECM and AC /Lasers. Its the best strategy now
This **** is as broken as was the 1st artemis. Where he just headshoted everything ,now even if you had old OP artemis. No 1 would give a ****... You cant use it any way. Nor pub nor team games. Today i played in dropship 13. Played more than 10 games. And only 3 games i had seen some rockets. And still those rockets did 0 dmg.

I have to disagree. The addition of ECM as defensive and offensive passive tool brings up more strategic possibilities. What you just need to do is to adapt existing strategies and add ECM equipped mechs to your team. Yes it changes the game but not so far that it is broken.

[X O]

StUffz, on 07 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I have to disagree. The addition of ECM as defensive and offensive passive tool brings up more strategic possibilities. What you just need to do is to adapt existing strategies and add ECM equipped mechs to your team. Yes it changes the game but not so far that it is broken.

Before the Patch Id like to play my little LRM Cat, now i cant hit anything. ECM in other Team, no Lock ... ECM near me ... i can do **** ... .

[PeeAeMKay]

I like the idea of ECM:

• I like to have one more option to counter LRM boats.
  
• I like how ECM can strengthen team play since you have to coordinate with the ECM mechs where they go and who they protect.
  
• I like to disrupt streak boats and to make their life more difficult.

However, in it's current form ECM suddenly feels like the central, core element of the game. Everything seems to revolve around ECM, especially in PUGs:

• Do we have ECM on our team or not?
  
• Where do our ECM fitted mechs go, so I can stay close to them?
  
• If I leave the ECM bubble, I'm suddenly the lone target for the enemy LRMs.
  
• Where are the enemy ECM mechs, so we can kill them off first?

So, right now ECM seems to limit gameplay, instead of diversifying it. If coordination in your team fails, the ECM mechs wander off alone and you have no benefit from it. If coordination works however, all mechs move forward in one blob instead of maybe flanking the other team.

Also, for LRM boats, the matches now fall into two categories:

• The enemy team is unlucky and has no ECM.
  
• The enemy team has ECM, which means that it is extremly hard for them to participate in any meaningful way. They have to hope that the enemy ECM mechs get killed off fast, or that the enemy team breaks formation. They have not much influence over both options, making the gameplay frustratingly passive for them.

I want to have ECM in the game, but I agree that it maybe should make locking targets harder, not impossible. Right now, it dominates the gameplay, it should have a weakness or counter.

[PeeAeMKay]

StUffz, on 07 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I have to disagree. The addition of ECM as defensive and offensive passive tool brings up more strategic possibilities. What you just need to do is to adapt existing strategies and add ECM equipped mechs to your team. Yes it changes the game but not so far that it is broken.

I think ECM can bring more defensive and offensive options, but to me it doesn't feel like it's quite there yet. I agree, the game is not broken, but there are some options that now don't make much sense.

Playing an LRM boat right now is not really a challenge, but a gamble. If the enemy team has ECM, you have to hope that the fitted enemy mechs get killed by your team mates or that a couple of enemy mechs leave the ECM bubble. Both are not your choices but those of your team mates or the enemy team.