2028 replies to this topic

[krolmir]

I agree ECM is totally out of balance, I like the effect, and hate it all at the same time. It causes all fights to become brawl fest; which is only fun on an Atlas. It's sad to see terrible pilots doing good because of ECM. Oh look, its and Atlas coming straight accross the lake at Forrest colony. He's 950m out, but he's got an ECM. Cross your fingers and hope you hit him with your ER PPC's, Lasers, and Gauss (fat chance really). There really is no excuse for that. I have regularly been able to sneak up on the opposing team with my Awesome, before ECM came out. I did this by staying low, not skylining myself, and watching my sensors. I wired back to my teamates positions, numbers, and types of mechs. I waited until they engaged the enemy and swung in from behind. Now their is no way to really do this without getting wasted before you can even communicate anything to your team, or get in a good position to spot.

[vettie]

wow i read through all the posts in this 48 oh, no now 49 page thread...

What can be said that hasnt been already?? And possibly several times already. I pity the Dev or Dev assistant that has to make heads or tails from this in a reasonable time frame..

Ok. here is my thought(s).

What we have labeled as GUARDIAN ECM is actually a hybrid of the table top Guardian and Angel ECM suites. I guess I am ok with that.

However, the table top counter to either of those systems was not only TAG and or an equal amount of Counter ECM applied, but it was the BV.

How is BV covered in MWO? I am not sure (at this point in the game) it is even addressed.

I mean the weight and tonnage of ECM is nothing. 1.5 tons / 400k C-Bills. that is 1 heat sink and a few scattered ticks of armour and 2 or 3 wins or 5 to 7 losses (of doing nothing). yes there are limited chassis, and this is good.

I am still on the fence as to if ECM is too much or not. It has really changed the game, but we have only had it for 2 days. Too early. It DOES seem to have rendered viable Catapults not so viable anymore. A Catapult or 2 loaded with some type of LRM and a couple of lasers for self defense has always been a big part of BattleTech / MW, but now, they are very limited if even used. The A1 pilots (disregarding the Streak Boats (no offense to any of you Streak boat pilots)) ONLY has missile slots, so a balanced load out would be some LRMs and SOME SSRMs or just SRMs (for close defense).

So a very light, very inexpensive piece of equipment has almost rendered a complete chassis set (less the K2) a shelf item (for now). Yes you can argue that LRMs are still useful and targets are out there and I dont disagree with that. I am simply saying for the most part, catapults are not being used as catapults were and should be.

We really dont want this game to turn into a pure laser fest. We must proceed with caution.

Edited by vettie, 07 December 2012 - 11:55 AM.

[Buckminster]

While I find ECM annoying, after reading through large chunks of this thread, I really find myself wondering exactly how bad some other pilots are. I'm pretty bad (mostly PUG, a W:L ratio of about 1:2, K:D is about .55), but I don't see all of the "OMG MWO IS OVER!!!!" fuss.

Yes, ECM is a bit OP, and well used it can be a game changer. But last time I checked, my PPC shots across the lake in Forest Colony are no less accurate. My ability to walk around unnoticed hasn't changed. Sure, you have to be extra careful when walking - that void on your map may have an ECM'd mech in it, but it may not. And sure, ECM'd mechs are harder to hit with LRMs or Streaks, but last time I checked, every mech had non-lock weapon options, and even those lock weapon options are still just as effective on non-ECM'd mechs.

There are options. Thermal vision still lets you see mechs. Direct fire weapons still fire directly. It's not the end of the world people.

Edited by Buckminster, 07 December 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[Intikam]

Something is terribly wrong with ecm scouts... they can take far!!! to mutch damage. You guys must have messed something there. cant be that i hit a overheated commando in close range with 2 salvos of 4 medium pulse and his armor turns from yelow to orange

[Not a Number]

vettie, on 07 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

[...]

What we have labeled as GUARDIAN ECM is actually a hybrid of the table top Guardian and Angel ECM suites. I guess I am ok with that.

[...]

It's more than a hybrid of those two systems. In tabletop, ECM only ever affects things inside or passing through its 180M range bubble. It doesn't interfere with locking or sensor range outside of it, but in MWO it does.

If it didn't it might actually be pretty balanced and would probably still be a game changer.

[Rumrunner2]

After 3 days im really start to hate ECM. Why?

Because of rubberbanding and warping best way to deal with fast lights are SSRM. But useless if target use ECM.
At the end, team with most ECM and most Raven 3l mostly win the match. Its boring.

And es mentioned before, what we have called "Guardian ECM" in the Game atm is a mix of AngelECM and StealthArmor. This tech is NOT available in the timeline of 3049, and there is no tech to counter it. Very bad idea of PGi to create ECM that way.

Next very bad idea of PGi is to release ECM now, they better waited until the netcode works and we have a chance to kill an ECM Raven with classic weapons.

I m close to stop to play, the game is getting more worse from week to week, and i lost my trust in PGi.

Edited by Rumrunner2, 07 December 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[18 Inches of Hard Steel]

It makes everyone with an ecm run streaks and everyone without an ecm cant do ****. how can 1.5 tons decide the entire meta?

[Vasces Diablo]

Simply put, a 1.5 ton piece of equipment (with no downside/cost of use) shouldn't essentially brick a 65 ton mech.

With ECM like this in the game, what's the point of even using mechs with missle hard points? The risk is to great of being useless as opposed to bringing all beams/ballistics to the field.

Mechs like catapults and trench buckets exist for a reason and fire support is part of the game. ECM was not intended as a stealth umbrella and should not be implemented in that fashion. ECM in its current state eliminates a whole style of play and forces matches to become exclusively close range brawls.

Edited by Vasces Diablo, 07 December 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[BlackJackRaider]

Reading through these responses, I am going to try to offer a constructive criticism for how to fix ECM (this coming from a Raven 3L pilot who also believes it's broken--pls put the pitchforks away):

Make ECM have 3 modes.

1-Disrupt.  180m bubble which prevents missile lock but allows the mech to be targeted.  However, the ECM would prevent any information other than the chassis from being transmitted.  Enemies would not know the variant, weapons loadout, or health of any targeted mech within the bubble.  TAG would still counter by allowing friendly mechs to lock on to a targeted mech (so long as the spotter was outside the 180m bubble).  However, it would allow teams to still communicate and focus fire in away that is currently very tough for many groups.  This would probably make more of a difference in 8v8 than in Pug matches, but it would make for a more balanced 8v8 game.

2-Counter.  This would work exactly the way it is now, at least in my mind.  I feel like counter is pretty balanced, except for the fact that it totally depends on who brought more ECM to the match in many situations.

3-Stealth.  This mode would be basically what we have now--prevents both targeting and missile lock on.  However, IT SHOULD ONLY EXTEND TO A 10m BUBBLE.  Allies outside of this tiny bubble would get no benefits at all.  This would allow spotter/scout mechs to do their work and would also add an element of strategy to base capping.  A couple light mechs standing basically on top of each other could cap while staying hidden, but it would be much harder to make the entire group of six assaults hidden on radar.

That's my 3 cents.

Edited by BlackJackRaider, 07 December 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Not a Number]

Mechs can already use the terrain to their advantage, especially lights with their low profiles. Add to that the fact that its only possible to spot mechs that are actually in your field of vision. So sneaking around is already quite possible without any kind of stealth field. ECM doesn't need it. If anything it should be actual Stealth Armor or the Null Signature System from BT canon, along with its drawbacks like reduced heat efficiency, that would provide this kind of stealth.

We wouldn't want sneaking to become too easy now would we.

[LynxFury]

I like your suggestion blackjack.

I'd tweak it just a bit. 1-instead of "180m bubble which prevents missile lock but allows the mech to be targeted." I'd limit targeting to without 500m of the viewer.

3- Stealth I'd make it without 25m. Ten meters was practically in collision range, 25m meets your intent though and could only really be used to a very well coordinated wing men.

[Griffin839]

My main gripe with ECM is that it should be limited to light mechs only. I can't even describe the frustration of fighting Atlas with ecms. Atlas are tough enough already, but without missle fire to whittle them down, they are almost guaranteed 2-3 kills before being taken down.

[Buckminster]

I'd also like to see some other downside to ECM - maybe something like you can't capture the base in an ECM bubble. It'd reduce the effectiveness of light mechs zipping by to cap if they have to leave themselves exposed to fire to do it.

Right now it's only real downside is that it is limited to 4 mechs, but when one of those mechs is an Atlas, that's not much of a negative.

[LynxFury]

Quote

I'd also like to see some other downside to ECM - maybe something like you can't capture the base in an ECM bubble

You get the bar, warning text, and Betty telling you when they are capturing whether inside the bubble or not.

[ilyha]

Damn, i have TAG, Artemis, Narc. And can do nothing with ECM enemy. Wat's wrong? Just delete Awesome-8R, it's completly useless.

Edited by ilyha, 07 December 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[SteelLynx]

I'm piloting a ECM-Atlas atm. And I still don't like it the way it is now.

I just finished two games without firing a shot. Both teams just circled themselves, those with faster mechs won the cap race. There is a lot less action going on. And if you've found the enemy ECM pack, you're most likely alone. And you'll be shot into pieces before you even have chance to realise whats going on.

In a PuG game, I can't try to play on my own. This is doomed to fail. I don't mean to go rampage and kill everything on sight, but to stay back, sniping and firing LRMs to support the frontliners. Those things are completely gone today. Yes of course, lasers shoot the same way as before. But we're not playing who-has-the-best-mouse-skills, but try to use cover, speed... well, tactics. You CAN use very efficient tactics with ECM. But they're not fun.

ECM might be a great addition for organised premade groups. But I think it will kill PuG gameplay, if it stays like this.

[shotokan5]

I have ECM which says toggle on or off maybe its off? IT has never seemed effective in any way. its like a child that has too many toys to know which one to use.

[Not a Number]

You can't turn it off dude, but you can switch it to Counter mode which disables one nearby enemy ECM.

[Dormax]

Non Constructive Post

50 PAGES AND COUNTING!

[Vasces Diablo]

One of my fav mechs to pilot was my Cat -C4

2 LRM 15s
2 Streak 2s
2 med las

This is not a LRM boat, streak Cat, or a cheese build of any kind. This is a well thought out, tactically flexible mech.

I could have more LRMs, but I wanted to defend against scouts/harassers
I could mount larger SRMs, but I wanted the lock on feature
I could use pulse lasers, but I don't want the heat/weight increase
I could have kept the JJ for mobility, but I wanted armor and heat dispersion

Ultimately, that's what every thing in BT/MW is about when it comes to builds/load out. Trade offs and cost of use.

ECM is 1.5 ton piece of equip with no downside or cost of use and it essentially bricks a 65 tin mech.

That is the definition of OP.

I'm all in favor of ECM, just not this version of it.