2028 replies to this topic

[LuckJaw]

Well, I am not seeing that.." what i see is Atlas 8 man group all with ECM... or bunch of light all with ECM... Or I see 2 light running side by side with 1 streak cat... Or all mass an moving as a big ball and all shooting of the same target...

1 Item cannot have that much of an impact on the game....

[Joanna Conners]

So far I'm content with it. I have no objections I can think of nor ideas for changing it.

[Thatguyoverthere]

BigMooingCow, on 04 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

...I think we need more than a couple hours to determine if it's balanced or not...

I completely agree with you! The general consensus so far seems to be that this implementation of ECM is a great addition to the game. Once Thursday rolls around (the day finals end and I go home) I'll be able to spend much more time playing the game, getting a feel for how ECM works. Even now, on a laptop with integrated graphics, getting ~12 frames-per-second, I felt like I was a benefit to my team in the RVN-3L.
On one occasion, I had nearly the entire team around me for ECM protection, as well as picking off any mechs that would try to attack me. It was really an interesting new playstyle, that game lasted about 10-12 minutes, and was a close match (though we did lose). I had other great games as well; wins and losses seemed to be by a closer margin.
However, I can see the issues arising with having four Atlases grouping up and making a massive blanket of innate ECM for the entire team. This would push LRM's (and even streaks) towards targeting lone targets, though once again, it's too early to say.
If I had to do something to balance the issue, it'd be to make ECM either available to Light-Medium mechs only (Even though the Atlas in the BattleTech universe does have ECM) or to make ECM more susceptible to damage. (It might be already, I've seen it destroyed on my Raven)

ECM has put gameplay in a positive direction. Players will adapt to changes. TAG can be used to land targets on ECM equipped mechs for friendlies to take them out. Though once again, the factor of having half the team ECM equipped may be an issue. ECM is destructible, even if the mech still functions.

Edit:
Teamwork is much more critical now. Teams will have to use ECM to their own advantages while trying to disable the enemy's. Once people have time on their hands to formulate new strategies, the initial shock of ECM to gameplay will be smoothed out.

Edited by Thatguyoverthere, 04 December 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[Xendojo]

Guardian ECM. It's doing what it's supposed to so far IMO. Makes my RVN-3L a real force on the battlefield. Makes sneaking a viable gameplay option. Changes the whole flow of battle, which so far seems like a good thing to me.

Will there ever be ECCM? Because i don't think BAP will be enough to counter ECM.

[Stingz]

Pulse lasers are an alternative to streaks. People need to stop depending on lock-based weapons (and netcode needs a fix) to be able to kill light mechs.

I'm happy that my Raven-3L is now an alternative to Jenners.

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Guardian ECM. It's doing what it's supposed to so far IMO. Makes my RVN-3L a real force on the battlefield. Makes sneaking a viable gameplay option. Changes the whole flow of battle, which so far seems like a good thing to me.

Will there ever be ECCM? Because i don't think BAP will be enough to counter ECM.

Press J to activate Counter mode when packing ECM, need 1 counter per ECM system.

Edited by Stingz, 04 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Silversteel]

Dear PGI thanks THANKS THANKS! I cant say if ECM is balanced or not but it brought this game to a whole new tactical lvl. In my opinion games seem to last longer. the roles are more important and my fear that ECM would obliterate LRM isnt there anymore.

The game feels more fun right now then ever before!

[JadeRaven]

I'm so happy with the Tag/ECM metagame.

[WardenWolf]

I'm not liking it. Forget the ability (or inability) to lock missiles - that might be okay, *maybe* - but to be unable to target *any* enemy mechs for things like damage assessment is rediculous. The last game I ran we got stomped 0-7, with our base capped finally while I ran off and hid in my Atlas... because I couldn't do jack. That was my LRM boat, with its own ECM and BAP equipped and some LPLasers for backup. I got maybe 3-4 brief target locks on enemy mechs when they strayed too far from their ECM partners, but I was effectively useless. I could try and hit mechs with my lasers, but couldn't tell if I was registering any damage because of complete lack of targeting info.

To sum up: ECM does too much right now. I'd rather see it have 2-3 specific effects, rather than such a broad brush of overpowered abilities.

[ackstorm]

I think that NARC and Tag (which are hardly used at all now) would make good counters to ECM and would increase their overall use in the game.

They are not 'easy' to use so they would not spoil ECM's purpose, but they would give teams fighting against ECM a way to work around the problem, one mech at a time.

[Xendojo]

Stingz, on 04 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Pulse lasers are an alternative to streaks. People need to stop depending on lock-based weapons (and netcode needs a fix) to be able to kill light mechs.

I'm happy that my Raven-3L is now an alternative to Jenners.




Press J to activate Counter mode when packing ECM, need 1 counter per ECM system.

Yea i got that but i mean a specific ECCM suite. That you can mount IN ADDITION to ECM.

[Bilaz]

ECM is overpowered - over time we will see more and more of d-dc atlas pilots. Teams without ecm are being owned and it hurts my eyes to see such things, even if i'm on team thats doing it. its literally i-win button -if you have more of it or your enemy dont have it then you win. In a week there wont be a mech without tag, ecm or both. wont me many missile users too.

Countering ecm with tag is not efficient in any way - range window is too slim and you cant really control range and/or keep target tagged for a long time since you sometimes have to get out of harms way and your target also does that - so you light up one or other mech for 5-10 seconds - not nearly enought time to lock, load and fire unless teammates already close and able to lock it anyway. maybe if everyone would have tag... but its kinda strange that 1 module on a mech gives so much benefit to whole team is also one that is so hard to counter.

As my mechs are not capable of wielding ecm and most fights is blind and chaotic melee in under 200m ranges i dont really see sense participating in this madness. Becouse its not about using cover, helping your team mates, deciding where to go, what to do and focusing fire on weakest/meanest targets - now its all about sticking to your ecm and shooting what you can when you can if you stumble upon it. my friend with ecm-atlas is having time of his life tho, wondering if he really needs non-atlas lancemates now.

Edited by Bilaz, 04 December 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Stingz]

WardenWolf, on 04 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

I'm not liking it. Forget the ability (or inability) to lock missiles - that might be okay, *maybe* - but to be unable to target *any* enemy mechs for things like damage assessment is rediculous. The last game I ran we got stomped 0-7, with our base capped finally while I ran off and hid in my Atlas... because I couldn't do jack. That was my LRM boat, with its own ECM and BAP equipped and some LPLasers for backup. I got maybe 3-4 brief target locks on enemy mechs when they strayed too far from their ECM partners, but I was effectively useless. I could try and hit mechs with my lasers, but couldn't tell if I was registering any damage because of complete lack of targeting info.

A solution is stop packing so much LRMs, you aren't a Catapult/ Stalker. I'm pretty sure the cross-hair still lights up when hitting an opponent (that or lagshielded lights).


ECM is sensor cloaking, not a literal force-field. Put those GaussCats/ Direct-Fire weapons to good use already, and nail the ECM mechs.

Edited by Stingz, 04 December 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[Jale]

With ECM added, normal SRMs will have their purpouse!

I think that ECM ( now ) is slightly just slightly op. It gets rid of all that boring LRM op boats and makes LRM usage even more harder ( easier with TAG and NARC ofc ) which is good - because its the way it has to be. And i cant imagine any scouts without TAG/NARC.
Regarding the problem when you and your enemy have ECM, i think if there is more frendly mechs with ECM in one specific area that yours will like be stronger.
Or when there is more ECMs in general and in specific area it could hurt those mechs that have ECMs somehow. Lets say if you are near enemy base generators ( you know if bases have their own ECMs ) your ECM could get weaker or even explode somehow and hurt your mech! - With this ECM mech would be on risk and would have to be more careful.

Edited by Jale, 04 December 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[Fabian Wrede]

Remover ECM NOW they are TO OP Game is totaly broken as it is now if you have ECM on your team and the other don't you win , other team have ECM and you don't U loose. ECM cloaced don't even show as hostle unless very close

Edited by Wrede, 04 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[SwordofLight]

"ECM is here and personally I can’t wait to ruin some streak cats day with this excellent piece of equipment." - Chris K

If you look past the blood red paint of my Cat A1, into its cockpit where my black-hearted pilot waits, eager to alpha again and again - you will see him doing a little seat dance and making obscene hand gestures at your ECM. I run a 4x6 boat - SRM4 x 6 - and I dont need a la la la lock. Oh yeah, uh huh.

Jokes aside (aside? I nuked four mechs today in the 'Crocodile'), I'm thrilled to finally see some EW elements in the game. I hope they do make the game radically unfair for anyone, myself included, who dont have ECM gear in their team. As it is, none of my mechs can mount it, but I love the idea. I'm sure all the Easy Button crowd will complain that this will make the game hard, and not fair, and not perfectly balanced, because historically, every battle ever fought by humanity has always been absolutly fair. The Varus Disaster, Thermopilae, Battle of the Buldge.

I'l reserve judgement as to how well it works when theres ECCM implemented. I cant say how well the BAP will work ingame against ECM. I recall having it in BT, but that was to counter the damn infantry our GM kept throwing at us every time we fought in an urban environment. It'll be interesting to see how it works in a real-time game.

-Don

"I just need to know one thing. Where they are."
-Vasquez "Aliens"

Edited by SwordofLight, 04 December 2012 - 02:21 PM.

[Haniwa]

so we hat already overpowered light mechs with lagshield and without knockdown. Now you made the only counter weapon (streaks) useless.

Congrats, you completly broke the game

[Kirado]

ECM is poorly balanced, like with real stealth technologies, you should pay a penalty for being cloaked.

How can the enemy target you, if you can't target them.. what are they targeting you with.. fairy dust..?

If I'm getting painted, my mech should be able to ping back and see the targeter. If you are cloaked you shouldn't be able to target anyone, or at least you get revealed or have to de-cloak to target.


All this does is if force everyone to arm up and now start an instant base cap or just all sit at base and wait.

So tactics go out the window. I don't care if people are sneaking around, it's lame and for people who have no fighting skills.

Dealing with streak-cats is easy if you play as group, scouts run interference and paint the streak cats, so I find the streak cat complaint very thin.

Bottom line ECM makes scouting pointless if you do not have ECM yourself.

No point looking at the map.

[LuckJaw]

Jale, on 04 December 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

With ECM added, normal SRM will have their purpouse!

Normal SRM already had their purpose... I repeat myself, but 1 items cannot be that powerful. remove the possibility to know who's alpha, beta, gama etc... Remove the possibility to use LRM and Streak, remove the possibility to know how much damage other mech have and where to hit to have the target kill faster and countering the other ECM... I hope you realize that this is a lots of good that little part gives... And that only for 400 000 CB....

[Stabbitha]

WardenWolf, on 04 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

I'm not liking it. Forget the ability (or inability) to lock missiles - that might be okay, *maybe* - but to be unable to target *any* enemy mechs for things like damage assessment is rediculous. The last game I ran we got stomped 0-7, with our base capped finally while I ran off and hid in my Atlas... because I couldn't do jack. That was my LRM boat, with its own ECM and BAP equipped and some LPLasers for backup. I got maybe 3-4 brief target locks on enemy mechs when they strayed too far from their ECM partners, but I was effectively useless. I could try and hit mechs with my lasers, but couldn't tell if I was registering any damage because of complete lack of targeting info.

To sum up: ECM does too much right now. I'd rather see it have 2-3 specific effects, rather than such a broad brush of overpowered abilities.

You're too used to fighting from the backlines. Even before ECM, my D-DC lives about 100m behind the frontline mechs. 3xLRM15 with artemis + 2 LPL's. Oh, some jenner is trollolololing one of your front line mechs, light him up and put 45 in him. Hey, someone spotted an awesome coming out from behind a rock at 400, LRM! Yes, you take more damage but you also deal more (rather than throwing away tonnes of ammo on people who let you get lock then duck).

Just because you can shoot at 900m (and give the target about 10 seconds of warning to find a rock to hide behind) doesn't mean you should.

[DegeneratePervert]

Wrede, on 04 December 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Remover ECM NOW they are TO OP Game is totaly broken as it is now if you have ECM on your team and the other don't you win , other team have ECM and you don't U loose. ECM cloaced don't even show as hostle unless very close

Shhh... A man is not completely born until he is dead. By learning to play other variants and having less reliance upon lockon weapons, you will be a better player overall.