2028 replies to this topic

[xXBagheeraXx]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Relax your buthole, and breath a bit.

Now that ECM is implemented they can actually work out how the counters should work, and implement them.

And remember, this is still BETA. Just reserve opinion until they give everyone a viable counter(not just ECM mechs). And really if you are not having fun go do something else until the next patch, then come back and participate in THAT weeks patch day madness. And it just might be that for some mechs the only counter to ECM will be to take out the ECM mech.

ZOMG LOOK OUT!! NEW GAME MECHANICS!!

I just took a NICE crap, my butt is very relaxed...Your concern over my rear end is appreciated.

My issue is ONE add-on should not be the end all-be all...and effective "counter" is to reduce its effectiveness...I have already posted a pretty good idea that will still add some new tactics centered around the Ecm module without it being as game-breaking as it is now.

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 04 December 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Xendojo]

Nyr Vonn, on 04 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Really, you made an assault mech untargetable until its 200 meters away. What a major screw up. ECM should not be on any mech except scout mechs. An atlas with ecm litterly owns the battefield. FAIL! FAIL ! FAIL!

I have come to accept that ECM on an atlas is broken.

[Xendojo]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 December 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I just took a NICE crap, my butt is very relaxed...Your concern over my rear end is appreciated.

My issue is ONE add-on should not be the end all-be all...and effective "counter" is to reduce its effectiveness...I have already posted a pretty good idea that will still add some new tactics centered around the Ecm module without it being as game-breaking as it is now.

Just wait till all the counters are working correctly. As it is they are not even close. NARC is useless, TAG and BAP are next to useless. Just wait until these things are working, then decide if ECM needs a nerf. ECM is supposed to be a game changer.

[Bridgeboy]

Generally, I like the idea of ECM, but right now the game is just a battle of who has more ECM mechs Maybe if the ECM counter undid every nearby enemy ECM, one team wouldn't be able to roll the one with less ECM's. That would also make LRMs and Streaks more useful again.

[Redlor Fidelious]

Over Powered

No suggestions yet on how I would go about tweaking it, but right now. It totally changes the entire game. 50% of missile play is now gone. More later as I have ideas.

[bangers]

For any of us who recently spent the cash to buy the 6 missle cat, we thank you with open arms about making our loot go to waste. Why would you guys even make such a major change without even consulting the community that saved your butts by shelling out money to get this project this far?!

Whoever thought this up was either stoned or had recently undergone a heroin relapse. To date, I can;t think of a more game altering change in a patch. Total fail!

Did I mention this was total fail?

Just wanted to be sure you were listening!

[Rustycan]

Hooover, on 04 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

**** you very much for not announcing you were not going to NOT allow it on the jenner until AFTER I was ted all my time buying and skilling them up.

They made the post for the chassis that would allow it one day, and removed the jenner the very next day.....not sure how you could have skilled them all up so quickly.....well done...

[xXBagheeraXx]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Just wait till all the counters are working correctly. As it is they are not even close. NARC is useless, TAG and BAP are next to useless. Just wait until these things are working, then decide if ECM needs a nerf. ECM is supposed to be a game changer.

To be honest, what ecm does to BAP and NARC is correct as per canon...anything under the ecm influence cannot be narc'd and tag effectiveness is reduced....thats why i suggested seperate systems...an atlas with an ecm option will probably chose the A-Ecm that masks everyone..but himsself..making him a huge target...however his masked mechs could possibly be nasty lrm/gauss loadouts...the atlas himself is vulerable to enemy missile boats, but his supporting mechs are free to ruin your day...or...you can go the Gecm route...this only masks YOUR mech, making lock-ons take longer (both versions can do this, but A-ecm to a lesser effect to the mech using it) and reducing your detect range...lets say about 400-500 meters for standard radar and 600 to 800 or so with bap mechs...Narc's can stay the way they are....ineffective under Aecm cover...but CAN be used on Gecm mechs. THIS will definitley change the way the game is played, and make teamwork very important....shure you can all pile around that D-DC, but when he gets focus fired by every lrm mech that can get eyes on him you will think twice against marching in the open behind him...Gecm can be used on ninja scouts, or brawlers who have short ranged weapons and need to get in un-noticed...

New tactics, with countermeasures, same functions....except you have to pick and choose what role you want your ecm to be, you cant have it ALL...Scouts would likely run Gecm...to...SCOUT...but that bap lrm mech might detect you...Big boys/fire support might choose to mount Aecm to mask the other missile boats around them to nix the amount of return fire....for example your lrm boats COULD stand out in the open and make it RAIN on the opposition without the enemies LRM support being able to return fire...however that sneaky jenner behind you that you didnt see coming with GECM might spot your aecm support....do you see how this opens up the game to new tactics? Both systems have easy counters...and the streak missile could still be used as a light mech counter, at the very least to a light mech mounting Gecm within a certain range...but the increased lock time would make things interesting...

Of course no mech should be able to mount BOTH systems, even if you have the space/tonnage or this would be imbalanced. And also Aecm should not overlap other aecm mechs, or it would also be pointless.

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 04 December 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Paewen]

I think this is exactly what the game needed. Despite all the people saying this isn't balanced, I would respectfully disagree.

If a mech has ECM and is in disrupt mode, have one of the mechs on your team with TAG sit 400m away and TAG the ECM mech so your LRMs can target them. Very effective counter to ECM.

I'm runnning a rave with TAG and ECM. I can effectively scout now (if i'm sneaky, noone knows I'm on the hill behind them). Streak cats no longer destroy me almost instantly (unless a raven running counter is with him).

People just need to adjust tactics to fit the mechanics. This was long needed. A game changer for the positive.

Now all they need to do is reinstitute collision damage and knockdowns and that will balance out the lights running through a formation of heavies.

[Elddric]

Dear Santa,
I would like a plastic rocketship and a pony, and a light mech that has jumpjets and ecm. Even just a widdle commando.

[USMC Iceman]

So from all this I have read. I get some basic themes, #1 My easy button is gone. #2 I can't think and I don't want to try new things.

Change is good. And I enjoy the challenging to out think this new problem.

[Dethfyre]

After playing several 8 v 8 matches, I've got to say that ECM is way too damned powerful for the measly 2 tons / slots required. Who thought that giving it the ability to cloak an ENTIRE TEAM if they're within range was a good idea? It generates no heat, takes no ammo, and the only counter is another ECM or someone with TAG? I'm curious if the developers have actually tried using TAG against a fast moving light... it's damned near impossible to keep TAG on target for any meaningful length of time unless the light is sitting still. Lights don't sit still.

Several people have thrown out suggestions that appear to be reasonable alternatives... I would hope PGI is seriously considering those. (Make target locks take longer instead of completely negating them entirely as is currently the case, and/or make the ECM effective for the equipped mech only - that still allows scouts to do their jobs incredibly well without completely breaking the game in the process).

I feel the current ECM implementation is so powerful it has actually become required equipment. You literally have NO hope of winning a match if you don't have at least 1 ECM on the team - name one other component you can say the same thing about (that also generates no heat, takes no ammo, is always on by default, requires almost zero user interaction to operate, and only takes 2 tons / slots).

Please fix this.

[Sentri]

The ECM is good, it changes things up but it obviously needs some tweaks.

TAKE ECM OUT OF HEAVY/ASSAULT MECHS

I can't tell you how many games I played today where the tonnage was just out of whack. Atlas's as far as the eye can see loaded with ECMs, It's a powerful tool, but you should have to make a choice. Heavy tonnage or ECM not both.

There needs to be a slight balance for missiles. Obviously before groups would run heavy missiles and tear people apart, Now I am seeing almost no missiles rendering that item basically worthless, instead seeing basically nothing but energy sniping or in-your-face slug outs.

Give targeting advantages to keep missiles viable: perhaps heat based targeting for groups with heavy energy builds. etc.

Make matching based on 'combat weight' not tonnage. Giving heavy combat weight to things like ECMs, that way you can calculate for how many ECMs a group is running so you aren't matched to nothing but Atlas's running ECM (since they are both heavy and using a very effective tool) so groups even out a little bit better.

Consider specialized ECM: Self only for scouts or /group within range minus self for support I saw this suggested a few times and it seems to be a good idea, that way missiles can still be effective because it gives you a big target and fleshes out support a little bit. Making tactics more important. It seems like that would be a longer implementation process however.

Maybe more things will reveal themselves as things develop. Excited to see how it will play out!

Edited by Sentri, 04 December 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Buzzkillin, on 04 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I do like it a lot already and helps reinforce the role warfare PGI wants to bring, now I need to rethink my strategy and mech loadout if every battle is going to have ecm included.

yeah a lot of people are doing this and we're going to see a lot of the same on the battlefield. my feedback for ecm is that it shouldn't shroud surrounding players. everyone huddles to the ecm mech to avoid missles and everyone wants to target the ecm mech like it was a streakcat or jenner. no balance, just polarisation, redundancy of any mech with too many missle hardpoints and get yourself an ecm mech if you wanna win cause if you redlight now you're picked on for death like a straggler. in a way it's made stratagy more narrow as everyone will do the same thing to win. so yeah if you get rid of the shroud allies ability we'll see a devide between people who want the ecm advantage and those who want a particular build. at least then we might see some diversity back on the field.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Sentri, on 04 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Make matching based on 'combat weight' not tonnage. Giving heavy combat weight to things like ECMs, that way you can calculate for how many ECMs a group is running so you aren't matched to nothing but Atlas's running ECM (since they are both heavy and using a very effective tool) so groups even out a little bit better.

Maybe more things will reveal themselves as things develop. Excited to see how it will play out!

i mentioned in one post ages back this very same problem, grouping by class means you can have 4 atlas vs 1 atlas 3 awesome. that means the 4 atlas have an firepower carrying advantage of 60 tons! like having an extra catapult or something on your side. no wonder i've never seen a 3 atlas plus team {most likely premade} lose unless the other team had the same.

now plenty of people are saying the easy button's gone for lrm boats. so they presume we all want to play laser warrior where you group all your mediums together and fire in one button hit. i wonder just how many of those hypocrites we have on the forums? me i don't mind being a laser sniper it's the best style of play as CQ battles cause terrible lag. so i've always tried to be fire support a role the oh so concerned for role players will see dissappearing.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 04 December 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[Monky]

I suggest the spotting radius outside of ECM be increased to 90 meters, and ECM be removed from the Atlas D-DC, and added to all variants of Raven and Commando and Cicada.

- You can't effectively maintain a 20 meter radius against an enemy, unless you're simply faster than them. 90 meters is much more realistic, and still challenging.

- Atlas D-DC can just spam 1.5 tons of weight into their chassis for like a heatsink and half a ton of leg armor. a hard to target mech that keeps his team nearby is near impossible to practically counter with ECM jamming, you WILL die in an attempt to do so unless they're completely stupid, due to the short range you can counter at. Even better is 2 D-DC atlas.

- You're only going to see ECM capable variants of the chassis selected for ECM, from here on out barring people trying to master the mech, and after they master if they're smart they'll switch back to the ECM variant, because it is the most powerful 1.5 tons out there.

Additionally, you might reconsider the entire 'not able to target outside the ECM bubble' it seems more like targetting should be disrupted only when you are within the ECM bubble as an enemy. the ECM bubble should only reduce effectiveness of tracking weapons IMO as far as defensive measures go when applied to friendlies. Cancelling out Artemis/TAG/Narc and increasing lock on times/info gathering times on the loadout of the mech and short circuiting beagle probes seems like a plenty powerful device.

Edited by Monky, 04 December 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Sprouticus]

I said it pre implementation, Ill repeat in this thread


Set the bubble to 150
Set the range to 300-400


Try those numbers

[Zyllos]

I agree here, GECM is currently over powering the game at the moment.

But, I love the suggestion that GECM should cover the mech itself and give mechs around it (180m) make 50% time to lock on.

Then, AECM should cover those around them but not himself.

[Seraphax]

I like that it forces PUG's to stick together now

[Theaus]

ECM is good addition but needs counters other than itself; seeing way too many 5 or 6 man atlas premade teams, or even groups all with ECM ability. There just get close enough to counter your ECM's and you done. Put the ECM on the something that does almost exclusively that so each team has once give to have only one or two, so make it much heavier and slot intensive. And give counters with tag and/or beagle. Or make it work only for the users