2028 replies to this topic

[Vaktor]

I don't think ECMs should completely stop a lock on inside the ECM bubble but make the lock on take a lot longer. ( I never play Steak cat in case you think that is why I think this)

That being said I like the dynamic the ECM brings to battle and as soon as we can knock the little ****s down it will be a lot better.

Of course I hate going 8v8 with a balanced force and getting rolled by a bunch of lights with ECMs... the only counter we had was Steaks and we don't have that option anymore... You can't even counter the ECM with ECM unless everyone is rolling with one because they all have them.

Edited by Vaktor, 05 December 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[Ogresan]

I think part of the issue right now is everyone wants to try ECM to see how it works, how it can be exploited for easy wins, and how it may be countered. We need to be patient though and see where the tactics evolve. There may be tactics that makes ECM irrelevant, it is too early to tell. Also today is the return of 8man drops. Not the 8mans of yore (pugstomping anyone?) but against other organized groups with established leadership and practiced roles. Too many variables make it hard to see what is really going on.
I do think ECM on the Atlas is too much and its my main ride. One of the best counters to ECM is to destroy the mech carrying it. This is very difficult when there are 5 Atlases covering each other electronically and physically. Certainly not impossible but very difficult.
It is still important to let PGI know how we are using ECM and what we think should be changed to make it more reasonable (if it is indeed unreasonably powerful, time will tell).

[Taizan]

Utility wise, ECM currently completely overshadows BAP and NARC, its supposed to have a large impact but in comparison it brings too much utility to the field for the module's weight.

BAP having the same weight, but with less utility is now completely negated by ECM.
NARC having double the weight, but only one utility function (although quite powerful) and that function being way to short for a "magnetically / attached active probe" was already very weak and now is out of bounds compared to the weight / utility ratio of ECM/TAG/BAP modules.

Suggestion for BAP:
Let it at least increase the detection range, even ageinst ECM. Imo you would still have a 50% decreased detection range, even when sporting BAP against a ECM-ed target.

Suggestion for NARC:
NARC should be active until the mech which has the buoy on it has taken a certain amount of critical damage to reflect that the NARC buoy may have been destroyed or mechanically removed.

Edited by Taizan, 05 December 2012 - 12:58 AM.

[Vassa]

ECM puts new players at a huge disadvantage. Without built-in usable VOIP it will end up frustrating them out of the game. Without the ability to communicate by voice (It's impossible to drive/fight and text chat effectively at the same time. That fact is what killed Auto Assault.) new players are left in ignorance of what is happening.

After 6 or 7 matches of being unable to use any missiles and being blind-sided by Invisible 45 foot tall battle robots they'll go elsewhere.

By 'usable VOIP' I mean, when I drop into a match there is a voice channel available already for everyone in on my team to use without going to a THIRD PARTY or trying to cobble together a 'friends list'.

ECM as an invisibility cloak is way over powered and takes zero skill to use.

Edited by Vassa, 05 December 2012 - 01:15 AM.

[Marineballer]

Hmm
I thought it will improve the game.
I know it offers offensive possibilities like flanking and something like that.
However, its only a siccor, stone and paper thing. In premade it seems that its important to have more ecm as the enemy. We had games where we fought against 5 or more ECM.
That force me, to take 5 ecm, too. That decrease the variety of seen mechs.

I would like to cap the number of ecm to 2 per team. It's only a suggestion. It will force right positioning, think about dropdecs and variety of mechs without a loss of teamplay.

EDIT: Another point wich comes to my mind is that ECM in the implementation now reduce role warfare. most of the mechs wich were driven are ecm mechs. so when 6 of 8 players have ecm then its not a role, it a force to have.
There should be a "role" for electronic warfare. Thats the role of Raven, commando or maybe an command mech. I know DDC is command-type oof atlas. However its a game its not a novel or lore.

just my 2 cents.

Edited by Marineballer, 05 December 2012 - 01:21 AM.

[Koningswulf]

ECM works perfectly well, you just need to use different tactics now than before.
I personally like that you now need more scouting and light mech to cover your flanks
and that speed is more important than ever. It is much more the hide and seek it was in the stories.
I most say I had my doubts about EMC but after seen it in action now I really like it.

ECM in itself is no winning equipment, it cost tonnage and slots and have no bearing in winning or destroying mechs on its own. It is a helpfull item for certain tactics and somewhat a cover for lots of LRm but in the end ECM doesnt help one bit when you shoot those mechs to smitherens. And the improvment of the range of Tag to 750 will go a long way to negate ECM.

Edited by Koningswulf, 05 December 2012 - 01:17 AM.

[Nauht]

Nebuzar, on 04 December 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

ECM needs rebalancing or PGI needs to create an ECCM for certain mechs. The ECM is too strong an unbalances the game due to the fact that mechs with it are invulnerable to any missile attacks and this should not be the case.

There should still be the ability to lock a mech that has and ECM while in an A1 but that's not the case. My A1 (LRM and Streak fit) was unable to lock ANY targets while a jenner circled me. There should still be enough of a signal to lock a mech

/snip.

The problem isn't ECM - the problem is you. You relied too heavily on easy mode lockon weapons.

Now you have to learn how to shoot.

Slap on 6xSRM6, learn to shoot and then come to the revelation of how powerful that A1 build is.

BTW: I love ECM as is. Thumbs up.

[LynxFury]

Ran mostly a tricked out Raven 3L and a Dragon tonight.
ECM seems to be working as intended.

I think a graduated effect would be better balanced. Perhaps 3 bands of decreasing protection (green, amber, yellow) with the current one current effect for only the inside band with reduced detection and longer lock on time for the outer two bands.

Still saw quite a few missiles and was on the victorious non-ECM side a half dozen games. Fewer missiles but by no means were they gone. Our dedicated LRM boats still had a vital role, and killed quite a bit, but it took more teamwork to call vulnerable targets or tag the ones inside the bubble--those are good things.

Consider allowing streak missiles to be dumb fired and extending the tag effect to 2-3 seconds.

I'd leave its rarity to select chassis and not limit its number on teams in anyway.

It's a great addition, just needs a wee bit of adjustment to bring role more in proportion to BAP, AMS etc.

Edited by LynxFury, 05 December 2012 - 01:29 AM.

[MordorSV]

ECM prevents missles targeting and prevents missles shooting.
I play the game for fun. Fun is to shoot some mechs.

No missles shooting -> NO fun!

How can i kill an ECM *** sitting in the missil Catapult? - No chance!
Dont use missles? or change mech to ECM ***? That is not the answer or workaround i expected.

Why i do not have a Smoke, for example to prevent lasers shooting?
Or why i do not have an Active armor to destroy-absorb all fired shells and bulles?
Why there is only ECM and no other absolute shelds against lasers and ballistic?

Remove ECM for now. And let it do some map cloaking-hiding in th future but not in-visual-sight targeting prevention.
It shold be negating a Begle Active Probe bonus and no more! Current implementation runis the game!
Missles are the most reload expencive and most useless at the moment.

[Jonnara]

"Please attempt to respond to the following questions in your responses:
The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM..
A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance."

Running Founders Catapult LRM15s 4 medium lasers

Been running 8v8 with TAG enabled scouts and they report back unable to tag mechs running ECM.So how is TAG the counter to ECM???

ECM is an Electronic-warfare Counter Measure, so logically it should be stopping BAP and Artemus IV but shutting down LRMs altogether??
Please look at your metrics and rethink what ECM should be doing.

Edited by Jonnara, 05 December 2012 - 01:40 AM.

[Heinreich]

Knoxic, on 04 December 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

2. All combat is now regulated to up close brawls. LRM's are completly a non issue and while you can still snipe (Guass or PPC) the inability to target mech means it's just a guessing game on WHERE to snipe them. Since most 8 man are now Atlai meadium and heavy mech (who are suppose to be the backbone of Mechwarrior) can not stand up to the Steiner Scout Lances.

An all gausscat team can still snipe them to death from a mile a way. Everyone aims for CT at the designated target then BOOM. When they get close enough to engage the cats can still outrun them to reposition. An all fast hunchies with gauss team should also be able to do that too. Its not an insurmountable problem.

[Nauht]

Jonnara, on 05 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

"Please attempt to respond to the following questions in your responses:
The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM..
A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance."

Running Founders Catapult LRM15s 4 medium lasers

Been running 8v8 with TAG enabled scouts and they report back unable to tag mechs running ECM.So how is TAG the counter to ECM???

ECM is an Electronic-warfare Counter Measure, so logically it should be stopping BAP and Artemus IV but shutting down LRMs altogether??
Please look at your metrics and rethink what ECM should be doing.

You know what the point of ECM is in the real life military? Look it up.

All those missiles that require locks - that's what ECM was created to counter. You can still dumbfire LRM's.

[MadaO]

Just make it fair to all. Empower everyone. Like AMS, BAP, NARC, etc, let any mech mount 1 ECM maximum. I find it very odd that every electronic equipment is available to all except the most crucial one. Trying to encourage team play? It won't work. Even teams now just rush off to cap by themselves with ECM. Just make it available to everyone so those without are only without by choice.

[Kobura]

We had a D-DC, me and a friend in Ravens, and an SRM-cat. We used the Ravens' ECMs to lock down enemy LRM/SSRM units, while one of us (usually me) ensured our squads stayed unjammed. D-DC led fire support on a slow advance, Ravens ensured light attack didn't get Streaked to death. Strong victory.

Don't obsess over ECM, work around it, just let it mesh into your overall game plan instead of derail/override it. Also, TAG un-cloaks enemies it hits...so there's that. Consider a dedicated EW platform or two with BAP ECM TAG and Sensor Module (I also have Zoom and Target Info on my 3L [which I bought today to test out ECM]) so the rest of your team can be 100% combat effective. It doesn't ruin the game, but it does make the enemy expose your team instead of just LRMing to bits what the brawlers "spot" in their close combat for free. Options, it added options.

[Kiltak]

The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
Missiles are now next to useless, as if the nerf to damage wasn't enough

The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
It works as described

A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance."
Make the lock immunity occur only on the ECM mech not umbrella to all mechs.
BAP & NARC should be able to counter or workaround it.

It's overpowered at the moment and the only people praising it are the ones using it to steamroll others: the best feedback you'll have is the number of people who'll stop playing till next patch.

[Jonnara]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

You know what the point of ECM is in the real life military? Look it up.

All those missiles that require locks - that's what ECM was created to counter. You can still dumbfire LRM's.

You realize how slow LRMs are? If you get hit by me dumb fireing LRMs you should not be playing this game or any game.

And i forgot to add, please read the Battletech rule set for ECM it does only what i suggested in my other post. Here is the link http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Suite

Edited by Jonnara, 05 December 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[SineCurve]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

I'm running my RVN-3L with BAP, TAG, ECM, 2x medium lasers, and 2xSSRM2(2 tons ammo). Oh and an XL280 and Endo-Steel. I have yet to die once in this mech.

It's a beast i tell you! A flippin' BEAST!! It is EVERYWHERE!!!!

Don't bother to cap my base, i go 129kph i'll be there before you can type to your team to tell them where you are. Don't stray too far away from your main force, or i'll have my TAG on you and streaks in your back. Big brawl in the middle of the map? I'll be right there, and so will my ECM bubble. They have ECM? I'll counter it and TAG the enemy ECM. Big brawl over and no targets? I'll be the first in the enemy cap.

Thank you for making my RVN-3L what it is supposed to be. One of the most feared EW mechs in existence.

+1 on this. I bought and leveled a Raven for just this purpose, and been having a BLAST with it so far.

And yes, it is painted black.

[Herrmann van Hinden]

Ha! First of all, repair that IE10 Problem with the Forum My Feedback is quite simple: It now plays like Mechwarrior should play! I played with my Raven 3L yesterday, like the days before, and I was the only one with ECM in the first drop (playing without any Group that time) and I was the one who drives the enemy crazy... we won without a single loss I think. That of course changed through the evening. However, this works exactly right and you should not Change ist within the next few weeks, let Players adopt their strategies and then maybe Change the System. However, the only Thing that may be tweaked is the LRM Problem. It Looks strange having an Atlas running around with ECM, which makes them the most used Mech These days, and catapults quite useless in their supporting role form 2nd line (I usually Play a Cata with 2 LRM20). ECM should work, but the same Moment there should be a weak spot for LRM if there are Scouts. As far as I know, Catapults and other supporters usually had their Scouts, giving them the Targets. NARC and TAG seem to be useless at the Moment, and this might be the right Moment to give NARC the power to breach ECM and act more than just a few seconds as guidance for indirect fire (which means no Artemis Bonus, just normal LRM fire). As an alternative, and maybe better Fitting into the implementation as it is right now, would be TAG to do this Job, which sounds even more sexy because ist just providing bonuses to others, which gives the Scout a stronger role. for Example: TAG combined with BAP will provide a lockable target for 30 seconds.... something like that. Keep ECM the way it is, but give useless devices more sense to spend the weight for them, that would work out great then. Sorry again for not being able to use carriage return, but it works on None of my Windows 8 Systems, this Forum.

[Nauht]

Jonnara, on 05 December 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

You realize how slow LRMs are? If you get hit by me dumb fireing LRMs you should not be playing this game or any game.

And i forgot to add, please read the Battletech rule set for ECM it does only what i suggested in my other post. Here is the link http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Suite

Thanks for that. That just confirms ECM should be kept as is.

[color=#000000]
The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony^[1]. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam aBeagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.^[3][/color]
[color=#000000]
The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.^[2][/color]
[color=#000000]
The Clans used the Guardian as the basis for their own ECM Suite, which is lighter and more compact than the Inner Sphere model but functions identically. The Draconis Combine used the Guardian as the basis for their experimental Angel ECM Suite.^[4][/color]

[Jonnara]

@Nauht,

where in there does it say its stops Missile systems?

Its stops BAP, Csi, Artemis and NARC.

Stopping any of these should not make locking impossible.

PS- Why are you people trying to debate me when all I am doing is following the format and giving my feedback?

Did I attack any one's feedback to try to advance my own case?

Edited by Jonnara, 05 December 2012 - 02:04 AM.