2028 replies to this topic

[Mike McSullivan]

I think the ECM is ok in the moment.
There are only two things in my mind that could/should be changed or considered.

1. C3-Computer: right now, as i see it, we are all running around with (weight+spaceless) C3s. So, what we see right now with the ECM is the "normal" situation for everyone. Only LoS for C3-free mechs. The point is: We should all get used to it
2. NARC beacons are superior to artemis IV because the lock is never broken once it has been established, because the beacon is attached to the target (FASA Corp. - Technical Readout 3050). So, with the ECM included to the game, NARCs should be permanently attached to the enemy mech (until the Narc-using-mech gets destroyed). Why? Because with ECM we have a strong counter for that now in the game.

[Thorn Blackwell]

Sen, on 06 December 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

There is no reason for this. ECM is implemented perfectly. Any additional problems you may be encountering are PEBKAC.

I feel the same way about the original implementation of the gauss.

[HellixNF]

ECM has killed off Fire Support LRM's mechs, why have stuff to hide behind now, just a flat map with loads of ECM mechs so they can all run at each other and brawl in a tight ball. Yes Streak Cat's are now almost useless...good, but its swung too far the other way, Watched a Comando with ECM and x3 Streaks own 6 of the other team, only lost cause he ran out of ammo in the end. there's some very good idea's on here, limiting ecm to one mech per team, Raven only ( But turn on tripping again) and lots of other suggestions, as it stands i'm finding it hard to bring myself to log in and play, a player with only a few days play shouldn't be able to HAMMER players who have been playing for month's just by buying a light mech with ECM. I know this to be true as one of my son's created an account 3 day's ago and can own players iv'e known to be good players with prior high kill/played stats.. a Commando-2D can be obtained very easily after only a few hours play with trial mech's, another hours play and you're set to own the field.

[Comassion]

Alexander Malthus, on 06 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

ECM is ok with the exception of D-DC atlas having it. Restrict ECM to light and medium mechs only and it should be perfectly fine.

I think this is a fine idea - if the Atlas didn't have ECM, then full-ECM teams would have limited firepower.

[MercilessTRADER]

I like the ECM and it adds nice depth to the game. Still needs work in a couple of areas and we all know it will be tweeked. I think the ECM mech should be handicapped more somehow tho to equip it, whether it take more slots or more weight... I think there should be a higher tradeoff..
Obviously some other devices (bap,narc,beagle) should work to offset ECM also. Maybe just for the mech its equipped on, sorta a soft counter. Say boost range from 200 to 400, or make lock possible within a certain range ect... Heard many good idea like this in this forum.
Also a way to manually lock LRMs or Just line of sight shots, say within 500 or whatever, aided with a Device. Even a motion sensor device as a soft counter... Scouts could leave them in cave and the Enemy sets them off by motion.
With any new game play elements being added. The developers need to iron them out and THATS WHAT WHERE HERE FOR. Lets just help them get it right and keep the good ideas and opinions coming

[Frantic Pryde]

Ok, now that I've observed the ECM for a few days (don't have it on any mechs yet) I really really like the concept. I can see the information and electronic warfare getting off the ground with this and its great.

Its pretty clear though that organized groups are abusing this though. All ECM mech teams is a little off the wall. I think the suggested increase in the TAG range is going to be a big help, but ultimately I think the big problem is the maps.

Right now, the maps are just soooooo small and are to dense with cover! Using a sneaky close range weapon equipped all ECM force is basically easy mode since you can comfortably stroll over to the enemy base in no time at all and with plenty of cover which basically forces the engagement into close range giving the ECM force a distinct advantage.

I was not a huge fan of MW4 but I think they really got the maps right for the most part. especially the size. We need maps least twice the size of caustic valley. Caustic should be about the smallest. Colony Frozen City and River City are to small and Colony and don't really provide a whole lot of tactical options.

If the maps where larger, an all ECM unit like the one I just mentioned would lose a lot of effectiveness but still be useful. IT would promote more true scouting and take this game in a much better direction.

Lastly, I think we should give narc a new functionality here. Maybe an ammo type that fires ECCM ammo like the iNarc that comes WAY later down the time line. If your able to shut down ECM networks for about 20 seconds with a drive by attack from a light mech, it makes for some more interesting tactical options and a good balancer for the current state of ecm.

[rahvin]

After playing now 2 days with ECM in the game i just want to add my comments

First i think that ECM is in principle a good addition to the gameplay.
It makes SSRM boating nearly useless and adds more stealth elements to the game.
It also renders halfly afk LRM spamming from cover useless
I like that as my mixed range direct fire AS7-D is not rocked to death by streak-cats anymore if caught in SSRM range. If i was not caught unaware i could mostly take care of them before they were in range to pose a threat. So it was OP close up but could be countered on your own.

But and it is a big BUT it not just makes the boating useless, it renders missiles, except normal srm, more or less useless without at least the exact same amount (or more) of ECM Mechs in your team than the other has. This means dedicated missile support mechs like Catapult, Trebuchet, etc. are useless (in PUGs) and nobody wants to play that chassis/variants.
In premades they maybe still viable but there the ECM forces you to take the ECM holding variants of mechs removing the variety in options and removing some battlemechs completely.

So ECM is enhancing gameplay but by overdoing it it makes other options completely invalid.

Some suggestions/explanations which, i think, would also make LRM support mechs viable again.

• 
  
  Keep the equipment hindering features of ECM. No Artemis, NARC, Streak working against ECM-mech and mechs in the bubble.
  
• 
  
  No indirect fire possible.
  
• 
  
  Direct fire possible with lock on. Lock on time doubled und range of lrms halfed. Or whatever values you think more appropriate.
  
• 
  
  Streak should fire in normal srm mode if blocked by ECM.

Well. These are some suggestions from someone who doesn't use lrms but wants to keep every weapon and mech-variant usable.

Edited by rahvin, 06 December 2012 - 06:33 AM.

[Fiachdubh]

LtPoncho, on 05 December 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Maps we're much bigger, dude. There's 2 or 3 places max per map to hide and everyone knows them intimately because there's only 4 maps. I like you post because I wish it were different and you could ninja more.

&n

[StandingCow]

NARC should make a mech visible even if they are running ECM.

[DaZur]

FWIW...

In my chosen role of suppression / support, I'm enjoying the re-discovered ability to sit back and snipe Mechs without the inevitable and nearly unavoidable LRM heavy rain.

They still get to me forcing me to shoot and scoot but it's not the "block out the sun" oh crap.. here comes the instant death that was so prevalent before...

I actually enjoyed several matches last night where I was able to almost single-handedly hold the ridge on Frozen while my teammates did flanking maneuvers. Was very enjoyable!

[Poppaukko]

Sen, on 06 December 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

There is no reason for this. ECM is implemented perfectly. Any additional problems you may be encountering are PEBKAC.

The implementation would be quite perfect if the maps were a bit bigger. In the current sized maps the ECM range stretches a bit too far but not by much. I'd like to see how a 150 meter range would affect the gameplay.

[Corvus Antaka]

Asmosis, on 06 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Well the counter to ECM should not be ECM.

Its like saying streakcats are fine because the other team can have streakcats or laggy netcode shielded Jenners are fine because the other team can have them as well.

Having the counter to something, BE that something is not a good balance.

Its like having the following:

rock> rock
rock>paper
paper>scissors
scissors>paper

This. ECM countering ECM but only being on 4 mechs was a dumb idea.

[Riven Cale]

ECM is overall a great addition and from what I've seen it's been implemented very cleanly. I haven't seen any weird bugs related to ECM, so kudos for a stable feature addition.

It's a bit OP compared to other EW items tho. I don't think ECM needs nerfed, just buff some of the other items.

LRM fire support units are hit too hard by ECM, making the role unviable. It can still be done, but it's not really worth it. Ton for ton it's more effective to go completely direct fire. As someone who has spent equal time in a brawler and an LRM support role I think LRMs are often unfairly lumped in with SSRM boating. Indirect LRM fire is easily countered in this game via terrain.

The recon units providing spotting need better tools to deal with ECM. TAG should get a buff of a few seconds to the duration that the target is painted with the effect. Due to the travel time of missiles and the lock time required, particularly under ECM, the current effect duration is too short without requiring the recon unit to be overly vulnerable. NARC needs some serious love too. It's tonnage cost isn't worth the effect of it at all. TAG and NARC should be tactical tools, which require the target to react. Right now they are pretty easy to ignore.

[Corvus Antaka]

NARC/TAG overiding an ECM is great. Especially NARC, as in BTech LRMS would home to the NARC beacon if it was planted, something sorely needed now that ECM is in.

1. the ECM bubble is too big / shouldn't even exist. imho this bubble should only be created if an ECM capable scout is linked with a command console atlas/command mech, in this pairing, if the mechs are within 180 meters of each other, a 180 meter bubble could be created to stealth any mechs in the area. Now we are promoting teamwork while keeping some logic behind this system and making use of more than ECM.

2. ECM should drop radar range as it does now to 25%, If BAP can bring that range back to 500 meters, so Jenners or BAP fitted mechs CAN pull locks on ECM mechs if within 500 meters, this would be good. Since BAP can be put on any mech, this makes ECM remain specialist, while giving us a counter to ECM, 500m range still keeps ECM functional even if everyone takes a BAP, but makes it have a counter.

3. LRM mechs are hurting, all is not as dire as people say, but I have some key concerns. 1 may be addressed by NARC/BAP and Pauls posting on buffing these systems, and this is my key issue - the flanking scout being able to hide/NARC/TAG enemy mechs for his LRM boats, this has been lost completely right now. Scouts need to get much to close to the enemy to cause a disruption of ECM.

4. BAP needs counter functionality so the Jenner too can be a viable scout with being crippled due to no ECM.

5. ECM should only be on commandos/ravens, and possibly on all of these variants. Putting it on the most used commando was a strange idea?

6. Atlas with ECM was just a bad idea. The game has already devolved into 8 people humping each others legs in cover. LRMS was a counter for this, but since ECM rapes LRMS, and we have no viable counter at long range, well, it really has messed with gameplay bigtime.

7. The TAG/NARC not working within 180 meters has got to go. SSRM's are more than completely worthless. In example my Cataphract 2X, 2 ssrm2's. worthless now. Now, IF I took a BAP, I'd expect then my SSRMS's could work inside 250meters. but the only thing I can take as a counter is an ECM...and my mech cant mount that. BAP needs to counter ECM.

8. which then takes us back to the A1 SSRM boat, which will happily take a BAP and slaughter inside 250meters....again, the problem here is boating/weapon balance, and how stock and boating does not mix well. improved hardpoint design is waht is needed to address this, not an ECM hotfix that obliterates the ssrm's completely.

ECM being the only counter to ECM was a terrible idea, and it cannot stay this way - either every mech needs to be capable of taking an ECM now, or this needs to be fixed by adding command console functionality/BAP usefulness vs ECM, etc.

ECM should not mess with IFF signatures, nor with getting a lock with missiles. Yes to doubling lockkon time, NO to IFF jamming. this is the job of an IFF jammer. PLUS, this game is already supposedly un-newb friendly - I mean you talk of bringing in 3rd person cause the nubs are too dumb to run and turn, but removing the red box around enemy mechs, having no way to distinguish friend from foe in ANY other way....VERY bad idea PGI.

[Sajuk Kar]

Yes ECM counters BAP in TT, but what's the point of having an item in the game that is just completely overpowered by everything and rendered almost useless? They've even said they're adressing machine guns and flamers eventually.

[Walrus Jockey]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 06 December 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

This. ECM countering ECM but only being on 4 mechs was a dumb idea.

This is Beta, more mechs will be implemented as they are developed and I'm sure that there will more mechs that can carry ECM. Also some of the new maps that are being worked on will be bigger, much bigger ion fact.

Skill / Teamwork Counters ECM.. It's been that way since the 80'

What most poeple don't realize is that this game system and world has been around longer than most of its players have.. Don't change the bat just because someone doesn't understand how to use it.. It's a tool, learn to use it, work with it, and know its limitations.

[MADSix]

I retired my LRM Awesome (no longer useful in PUG), and went back to playing my Hunckbacks. 1 time in 6 PUG matches was I ever the target of LRM fire. It seems that ECM = no more LRM. I no longer had to worry about running through open areas. I could withdraw from fights without any care, as there was no LRM up the backside. Made the Hunchback much more survivable and slightly easier to use. The fact that ECM turns off FF identification inside its bubble is still very frustrating. I was so annoyed by this that I spent the c-bills I was saving for another Awesome on a COM-2D so I could participate in the ECM madness.

In all, my opinion of ECM is it is vastly overpowered. It makes LRM's useless, and therefore no longer used, removing a significant part of the game.

My thought on a fix is to remove the detect range bonus that ECM gives. Let ECM be a devastating short range item, but let it have no effect outside of its bubble. That make it so they have to be >180m from me in order to have the massive bonus that ECM provides.

My other thought is if you are going to keep it so powerful, make it a 8 Slot 6 ton (or more) item, so your ECM mech is severely penalized for using it. That way you have the choice between weapons or ECM.

[Buckminster]

My only real complaint is that an Atlas can get it. In some of the older MechCommander games ECM was limited to the Raven only, so if you did run ECM you were limited to a 35 tons mech.

I was in a couple PUG matches where we had two Atlas-D-DCs on our team, and it was stupid how they just marched all over things.

[XvDraxvX]

Its likely been said already, but i dont want to read through 600+ posts.

1. Lower the Range of the ECM Effect buy 10%
2. Remove ECM From the Atlas-D-DC

ECM is then Balanced.

[locilocisu]

Ceistant, on 06 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

This is Beta, more mechs will be implemented as they are developed and I'm sure that there will more mechs that can carry ECM. Also some of the new maps that are being worked on will be bigger, much bigger ion fact.

Skill / Teamwork Counters ECM.. It's been that way since the 80'

What most poeple don't realize is that this game system and world has been around longer than most of its players have.. Don't change the bat just because someone doesn't understand how to use it.. It's a tool, learn to use it, work with it, and know its limitations.

But that's exactly the problem with ECMs. It doesn't really have any drawback for the Mech that chooses to equip it other than some minimal extra tonnage.

Any Mech that can mount ECM would mount it, without any consideration since the drawback is insignificant. I think this is bad design. You always want people to consider whether to do one thing is good or bad, decision making, and reward people when they make a good decision. Nothing is to be gained without decision making in a game.

If people starts thinking... hmm maybe it'd be better to drop the ECM for some extra ammo... that's a good thing! Or extra laser or ECM... that's a good thing!

As of now, the drawback of putting on an ECM is way to small compared to the benefit you gain from it.

The BAP is a good example of a good "balanced" item. The benefit and the tonnage it takes make people consider its inclusion or not.