2028 replies to this topic

[warp103]

Garrath, on 10 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but NEITHER ECM prevented LRM lock/firing when within line of sight.

correct. it dumb fire mode. The issue with that mechs move. LRM speed to target is so slow, that it will never hit. WELL Assume target is alive or not shut down.

Edited by warp103, 10 December 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[Kahna]

CannonC0cker, on 10 December 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

ECM can be countered using certain tactics just as LRMs and SSRMs can be... Get your ECM equipped scout within counter range and counter the enemy ECM mech.

I guess you didn't understand. We're talking 8v8 here so your opinion is invalid. You could take your ECM equipped Scout within counter range of the enemy ECM mech, the problem is THEY'RE ALL ECM EQUIPPED and ANY half way intelligent team would NEVER let you sit near their main body and would send their Raven 3L's, Commando 2D's and Cicada 3M's to chase you off and because THEY have the dominant number of ECM, they can rip you to shreds with SSRM's and you can't fire SSRMs back.

I also find it absolutely hilarious (in a sad kind of way) that people are b****ing about Lights and their supposed 'Lagshield' (See Below) while at the same time supporting ECM which gives the Lights a powerful counter to the one weapon system that is utterly devastating to them.

'Lagshield' - Get a clue geniuses and join the PC gaming culture: every single online game has latency issues, it's nothing new or isolated to MWO and it is never going to go away unless you're sitting right next the other players in the same room with a LAN connection. Get over yourselves and move on already.

[Fabian Wrede]

this is now a new game called ECMOnline. unless you want player to start leaving fix ECM balance they have to many functions. One thing needed is better velocity on LRM ECM you deley target lock for streaks but no negate them.

Edited by Wrede, 10 December 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[Magnumaniac]

Unfortunately, I've got to come in on the anti-ECM side. It was great for a few days while people experimented with it (and with the returning 8v8 drops), but now it is just lame.

8v8s are play 4 D-DDCs & 4 3Ls or don't bother turning up, pugs are 50% stealth base caps... such fun!

The variable ping that ECM seems to sometimes induce (although that could just be the exploiters who know how to cause that deliberately) makes lag-shield a very real problem - either fix the netcode or admit you can't and bring in client side hit detection. I would rather face up to aim-bots than unhittable light mechs.

[Force Majeure]

p4r4g0n, on 10 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

ECM does too much for what it costs

Nonetheless, I don't believe the solution is to have it do less, or weight more, or cost more. That would just make it useless, or just harder to get.

I believe the solution is to introduce a weakness to using ECM. A downside which, without taking away from the ECM's effectiveness, would give the opposing team some counter-play option to go with, even if none of their mechs have ECM themselves.

[Fabian Wrede]

down side to ecm should be that as an active disrupt mode it should be visible at VERY long range

[TheCaptainJZ]

Dead mechs with ECM might produce ECM feedback in thermal mode.

I just finished a game on frozen city and I was at our base and there were no enemy mechs around and I didn't see any friendlies either. I stayed to guard. But when I switched to thermal mode, I saw the "rings" on the ground indicating the presence of ECM. There was one destroyed raven in the area. It might have been coming from him. The enemies were all accounted for and not in the area.

[AlexWildeagle]

After the matches I had this evening the only change I would like to see is to have it available to more mechs. Way too many matches with zero ECM and missiles were out of control again.

[Fabian Wrede]

give ecm to all or none as it's now its all about who has more ECM

[USMC Iceman]

Kahna, on 10 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

I guess you didn't understand. We're talking 8v8 here so your opinion is invalid. You could take your ECM equipped Scout within counter range of the enemy ECM mech, the problem is THEY'RE ALL ECM EQUIPPED and ANY half way intelligent team would NEVER let you sit near their main body and would send their Raven 3L's, Commando 2D's and Cicada 3M's to chase you off and because THEY have the dominant number of ECM, they can rip you to shreds with SSRM's and you can't fire SSRMs back.

I also find it absolutely hilarious (in a sad kind of way) that people are b****ing about Lights and their supposed 'Lagshield' (See Below) while at the same time supporting ECM which gives the Lights a powerful counter to the one weapon system that is utterly devastating to them.

'Lagshield' - Get a clue geniuses and join the PC gaming culture: every single online game has latency issues, it's nothing new or isolated to MWO and it is never going to go away unless you're sitting right next the other players in the same room with a LAN connection. Get over yourselves and move on already.

No he is 50% correct. Use ECM and TAG to counter the ECM players. I have found having just 2 to 3 ECM Players was all we needed when 50% of us used TAG. I didn't like taking tag prior due to it was only valid for spotting for LRMS but now it works for just Spotting. It paints the targets and Allows leaders to TAG a unit for every one person with a silly side effect of letting SSRMS and LRMS to shoot the same target with a bonus. Funny how knowing your systems on the battle field prior to the battle is helpful.

[Kahna]

USMC Iceman, on 10 December 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

No he is 50% correct. Use ECM and TAG to counter the ECM players. I have found having just 2 to 3 ECM Players was all we needed when 50% of us used TAG. I didn't like taking tag prior due to it was only valid for spotting for LRMS but now it works for just Spotting. It paints the targets and Allows leaders to TAG a unit for every one person with a silly side effect of letting SSRMS and LRMS to shoot the same target with a bonus. Funny how knowing your systems on the battle field prior to the battle is helpful.

I'm sorry, you don't get it either. We're talking about 8v8 where teams will often take as many as 8 ECM's. There is no way to counter the 4 D-DC's with the 4 Lights and Mediums running around with ECM. The only way to counter ECM is to get in range of it and any organized team worth a damn will rip you to shreds if you come in any numbers less than a full team (at which point it becomes mute: see fur-ball).

TAG isn't the magical answer you think it is. You're either too close using it and we will demolish you or you're further back using it and it takes about a split second for someone in Thermals to call it out or notice a friendly is being tagged and then our Recon / Skrimish team is on top of you tearing chunks out. The moment either competent team sees LRM's inbound on an ECM shielded friendly, we're going to start looking for the spy in our midst.

TAG? Please. You don't understand anything, certainly not the point of the discussion. Hint: We're not talking about counters, we're talking about how it removes variety, nearly eliminates some weapon systems from the battlefield/certain mechs, pigeonholes people into a limited number of chassis and how ECM has ZERO disadvantages to using it, but produces a game changing effect nonetheless. This is akin to a Gauss Rifle with unlimited ammo, LRM's with Artemis that behave like Streaks with unlimited ammo and no heat, etc. all for 1.5 tons, 2 crit spaces and 400k worth of upgrades (prior to ECM)!

Funny how the ignorant masses keep proving that they don't understand what's going on.

[Force Majeure]

Wrede, on 10 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

down side to ecm should be that as an active disrupt mode it should be visible at VERY long range

That's what I'd like to push for.

[Abivard]

Trolls Must camp this board 24/7. they must have each other on spead dial too?they always seem to be there to back each other up with in a few minutes.

Easy to tell them apart from normal folk. they almost always open their posts with a direct personal insult disparaging the other persons opinion, then sanctimoniously pretend (out of a purely altruistic frame of mind) that they will now educate the ignorant masses as to what is PC by them.



Their names will appear in groups on almost every page of a post.
They will always claim the other person is lying, on drugs, stupid, uneducated, narrow minded used bad punctuation or grammar etc ad nausem..

ECM doesn't need to be removed to make the game easier.

Netcode is the problem with lights.

Placing absolute dependence on an easily countered, easy to use weapon systems is foolish. Then to complain that your easy to use automatic targeting and hitting weapon isn't so easy for you to exploit so 'Things must be NERFED!' turns into your battle cry.

How about waiting till the other elements of the game are in place before making knee-jerk reactions to change.

ECM doesn't stop energy or ballistic weapons from hitting, it doesn't stop anything from 'hitting' it simply requires manual control i.e. skill sets.

the MK1 -Eyeball, issue 2 each , is now back in vogue where it should be.

[Fabian Wrede]

unless ECM get better balance in next patch, bye bye, game is no longer any fun, Prahna manged to destroy gaem even berfore launch and they even delayed ECM deployement since inhouse testing proved it was to powerful adn yet it is game breaking. Ecm remove the role of scote unless you can fit ecm so ther concept or rolewarfare is out the window

Edited by Wrede, 10 December 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Umbra8]

Garrath, on 10 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but NEITHER ECM prevented LRM lock/firing when within line of sight.

Actually, in cannon, ECM didn't prevent you from firing LRM's with lock provided you were far enough away, ECM did nothing if you were not within the 180 meter bubble. In TT missiles behaved much like direct fire weapons where only a percentage of missiles hit the target when you made your attack roll. I can understand PG making some changes when you adapt tabletop to a realtime sim game, but ECM is a bit overboard atm.

[DeaconW]

abivard, on 10 December 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Trolls Must camp this board 24/7. they must have each other on spead dial too?they always seem to be there to back each other up with in a few minutes.

Easy to tell them apart from normal folk. they almost always open their posts with a direct personal insult disparaging the other persons opinion, then sanctimoniously pretend (out of a purely altruistic frame of mind) that they will now educate the ignorant masses as to what is PC by them.

Or maybe some of us have a long history with BT/MW and are passionate about the first new MW game in many years.

Quote

Their names will appear in groups on almost every page of a post.
They will always claim the other person is lying, on drugs, stupid, uneducated, narrow minded used bad punctuation or grammar etc ad nausem..

Indirect ad hominem... nicely done. Ironic given your clear bias against indirect fire weapons...but I digress. Your hyperbole is a bit over the top though...Pls point to a specific instance where someone has done any of those things you accuse people of doing.

Quote

the MK1 -Eyeball, issue 2 each , is now back in vogue where it should be.

So please, O non-sanctimonious one...pls explain to us poor plebeians the prevalence of indirect fire weapons in many if not most of BT/MW lore and canon mechs, previous MW video games as well as pgi's own variants and furthermore, what their role on MWO should be...if you can tear yourself away from other "mk1 eyeball" games like Hawken and COD long enough to reply...

[Stingz]

Give free-fire and/or Artemis LRMs faster velocity to offset lack-of-lock/increase accuracy? Right now dumb-fire LRMs don't have much use except on unaware stationary targets.

Edited by Stingz, 10 December 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Kemosobe]

I feel there needs to be either a massive reduction in the ECMs capability to counter lock or limit the amount of people per team that can have it equipped. It is no longer fun using my Catapult (my most favorite mech so far) as I can not lock a single person. What is the point for me, or anyone else, to use LRM mechs with no counter to the ECMs?

[DeaconW]

Kemosobe, on 10 December 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I feel there needs to be either a massive reduction in the ECMs capability to counter lock or limit the amount of people per team that can have it equipped. It is no longer fun using my Catapult (my most favorite mech so far) as I can not lock a single person. What is the point for me, or anyone else, to use LRM mechs with no counter to the ECMs?

Because according to the ECM lovers, indirect fire is no longer important in this game...learn to play without it! (Yes, this is sarcasm)

[ICEFANG13]

Yes you are stupid SSRMs and LRMs users, those no skill weapons are gone and its a great thing! ECM requires a lot more tactics and skills than just pressing the J button.

*Genius Meme*