2028 replies to this topic

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

Quote

ECM is too binary. The team that has the most enjoys too many benefits:
Unrestricted use of streaks and lrms
Unrestricted coordination via being able to call out target letters
Superior situational awareness via being able to see the positions of everyone
Superior targetting as they are able to see mech damage

How about playing smarter ? Like Paul said !

Just jokking ECM is obviously op but don't wait for a nerf ... you will wait for a long time !

Edited by Shadowpunisher, 16 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Abivard]

ICEFANG13, on 15 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

I am an excellent player, and my stats are far greater than yours. I know how to play, and because my opinions are different than you means I'm a troll?

ICEFANG13, on 16 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Yep you have no stats, just pretending to. I can't look, you'd have to link them.

gee which is it troll, you can or can't either way one is a lie stupids

[ICEFANG13]

Those say the same thing, you must not be a great reader, as indicated by your avoidance of counter-points in the conversation. You are a troll and this conversation is over.

[Kenshar]

REMOVE THE CLOAKING EFFECT!

[GalaxyBluestar]

come on guys almost there now, the big 100 ;P

[Haitchpeasauce]

100 pages of PGI ignoring us ...

As per the last paragraph of this article:
http://www.pcgamer.c...t-mode-release/

Which is already posted and discussed here:
http://mwomercs.com/...th-ecm-pcgamer/

[Abivard]

your first statement makes the declaration that, after you made a comparison your stats are higher than mine.

Your next statement makes the declaration, You have no idea what My stats are but they must not exist.

If as you say both statements are true... then the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the only people you are better at with MWO is the ones who have never played it?


Your brilliance has surly dazzled us all.

[DocBach]

Guardian ECM rules, BattleTech Total Warfare Pg 134, again:

"The ECM suite does not affect other scanning and targeting devices, such as TAG and targeting computers"

Why the hell can't I target things or see things on radar using ECM, then?

Edited by DocBach, 16 December 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Darjek]

@Marcus Tanner

lol yeah see what you mean there, I was half asleep at the keyboard.

[Ghostbear Gurdel]

I do not feel like reading 100+ pages, so here is my opinion.

I like the ideas behind ECM, but I have to say that I think it is too powerful as is. The current fact is, that as long as a team has an ECM mech in the middle, they are invulerable to all forms of sensors, including optical. One mech with ECM can block all targeting information. Currently ECM counters everything as if all the sensors were C3 systems. In TT a mech can still spot for indirect fire if it is in an ECM field, in MWO that is impossible. I love my LRM firesupport, but in most games that is not practical anymore. You need to find a game where an opponent slips out of the ECM bubble to be able to lock and shoot them, making LRMs not a Primary fire support weapon, but an opportunity fire support weapon. For the tonnage that must be devoted to carry any signifigant LRM racks, that invalidades half the mech's tonnage in weapons.

I propose the following change, to keep ECM as the combined Null signature/cameleon light polarization shield/ECM suite that the devs seem to like, while still keeping the game playable.

ECM will bock, Artemis IV, NARC, and BAP against any teammate in the radius. However, it will only stop enemy targeting for hotiles within the ECM bubble. Meaning, if I am 500 meters out, I can still target the enemies in the ECM, allowing me or my teammates to fire at them with LRMs. However, if my mech is within an ECM bubble, then I cannot target, becasue my system is jammed. As it stands, any ECM that lies in the Line Of Sight between a mech and a target prevents the mech from tagetign anything. Whereas, if the ECM mech has to get close to make the ECM prevent targeting, that prevents a team from just turtling under an ECM bubble. In my idea, the ECM mech has to get close to the Enemy and get them Under thier own ECM effect. This would require much more skill and finesse than the current dynamic, where the entire team just follows the ECMs around like a bad follow the leader.

and of course the mech mounting ECM would remain immune to everything....

Edited by Ghostbear Gurdel, 16 December 2012 - 10:52 PM.

[LynxFury]

Darjek, on 16 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Now to solve this Clearly Abusive Build on ECM Equiped Light Mechs such as the Raven-3L / Commando-2D is a simple one remove the ECM from them and place them on Light Mechs that have no Missile hard points but leave the Atlas-D-DC and Cica-3M with ECM ability.

You really would rather toss the Raven TRO away than fix the ECM?
The raven by BT lore is absolutely the LAST mech that we should consider removing ECM from. Its "3L" is the only varient in MWO which actually has ECM by its TRO. It was designed specifically for EW warfare. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven

Edited by LynxFury, 16 December 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[DamienHellstrom]

Just posting my opinion-- ECM great idea... but overpowered.

Not everybody has time to get into a massive premade group every game. I really enjoy just hopping in the chassis, making big booms for a bit, and returning to other obligations. My beloved LRMs have rained on many an enemy team's parade to good effect, but while there may be counter-ECM tactics for the 8-man group that's cybernetically fused, it is really not working too well, IMO. Just don't lock out the lone wolves/PUGs. We make great target practice, as long as the spirit's not crushed out of us.

Although I've added several bays, I did not until recently have a raven or cicada, and didn't happen to have the right Atlas, so I couldn't do ECM myself til recently.

Some possible fixes:
-I think ECM should be BULKY and HEAVY. Make it 2.5, 3, or even 4 tons and 3 slots-- and a lot of these swarming ECMer's will have to be a bit more judicious. Do you want to be fast? MediumArmed? Invisible? Maybe two, but NOT all 3... tweaking weight/space would really fix a lot of these problems. A team will take one or two, not 5.
-I think the blanketing range should be much smaller-- maybe 150 or even 100m.
-I've tried a Catapult with BAP, Targetting module (I've been at this a wee bit), and Artemis. Against ECM, I can't see that it does frak-all [-- hat's off to Starbuck]. I saw the comment that "game balance" is a PC notion for weenies... we-e-ell-- no. Game balance allows for different play styles to fill different niches. Why make a game like MWO if EVERYONE is driving an Awesome, or EVERYONE needs to run a LRM boat? Generally, MWO succeeds, but patches like this at first are met with JOY by the folks playing it (see the first posts), then increasing frustration from the rest. Still joy from the crows and locusts.
-It might also be OK if Artemis could manually guide LRMs in to a radar-invisible site-- this might be very appropriate, occasionally important against a slow/ed ECMr, and certainly makes sense to allow for LOS opponents.

Also, as always, a good, modest but significant collision-penalty, long awaited, would help with the lights, but that's another forum.

[Darjek]

LynxFury, on 16 December 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

You really would rather toss the Raven TRO away than fix the ECM?
The raven by BT lore is absolutely the LAST mech that we should consider removing ECM from. Its "3L" is the only varient in MWO which actually has ECM by its TRO. It was designed specifically for EW warfare. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven

I understand that EW is the Raven-3L's design purpose, I was only saying that could be a last resort option.
As it Stands, if 2 of them start circling you like a couple Rabid Wolves your done no matter what mech you got.
So to me they are going to have to come out with a lot better than just a longer range Tag for Non-ECM players to have a chance.

I let my brother play the tonight to see if he wanted to make an account and he said not no but H*** no he will not play or support the game just because of this, But then He has abit of a short fuse lol.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I'm posting a reminder to please keep this discussion specific to Feedback on ECM, and not allow personal arguments to brew in this particular thread. So, please no more of the back-and-forth stuff, that just distracts from the purpose of this thread - to get honest opinions on ECM consolidated. Thaaaaannnks!

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 December 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[CoreHunter]

Do you think they take it for granted we are all supposed to be running 4man or have independant coms? kinda silly to say it's working fine when the biggist disidvantage is the inability to quickly communicate with your teamates in pugs. even in 4mans occasionaly 4 pugs will be present. And how do you call 8 to 0 kills a match maybe 7-1 a good game? A good game for who and who do you think really enjoyed it?
Yay that was fun 4 ecm mechs magicaly appear at our base and cap us whoo that was a fun 2-3 minutes.

Edited by CoreHunter, 16 December 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Big Bad Wulf]

ECM works just fine:

Does anybody here remember "Desert Storm" in the 1990's?

USN/USAF has "ECM"

IRAQIS has no "ECM"

IRAQIS to USN/USAF "ECM" is OP we cannot Lockon to your jets bombing us, this is so unfair!!!! please turn off or adjust it a little.

I think this says it all.

Happy Holidays!!!!

[Hawkwings]

The problem I see with ECM is that its benefits vastly outweigh its drawbacks.

This game is about choices, specifically, choices in equipping our mechs. I can put a large laser on it instead of a medium laser, but it will generate more heat, weigh more, and take up more space. But it does more damage and has longer range. That is an example of a trade.

For the choice whether or not to use ECM, the benefits are: practical immunity to LRMs and SSRMs, reduction in enemy scout effectiveness, reduction in enemy brawler effectiveness, and ability to counter enemy ECM. The drawbacks? It... weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 crit slots? I think I removed a single ton of SRM ammo and half a ton of armor to fit it onto my mech.

Where is the balance? If you have an Atlas-D-DC, what conceivable reason would you have to not put ECM on it? If you have a Raven-3L, what conceivable reason do you have to not put ECM on it? You would be a fool to not put ECM on your mech, because it is far and away the best thing you can do with that 1.5 tons and 2 crit slots. Nothing else even compares.

This is why ECM is unbalanced. There needs to be a significant drawback to putting it on your mech.

Perhaps it occupies 8 crit slots. Perhaps it weighs 8 tons. Perhaps it both weighs 8 tons and occupies 8 crit slots. Perhaps there are different types of ECM that do different things: one would prevent LRM locks, one would reduce detection range to 200m, one would make it impossible for the enemy to share targeting info, etc. Allow mechs to mount only one type of ECM.

[CoreHunter]

you want constructive: 90% of mech builds are brawlers. Thanks to ECM we have light medium heavy and assault... Brawlers.
what part of this game is a thinking mans shooter?
a) hide under ecm and Rush them.
hide under ecm and counter rush them.
c) hide under ecm and sneak cap.
d) they have no ecm o.O hide under ecm and snipe.
e) no ecm on your team they have ecm
A1) run all to one side and lose to being capped or ambushed
A2) bunker down and get sniped
A3) split up and get gangebanged by the ecm guarded lagsheild lights.
f) no ecm on either team stand in bewildermint for a minute and proced to playing the closest thing to a balanced game you have had since ecms release.

[ShadowSpirit]

ECM in its current incarnation is bad for the simple fact that the game developers have put such a thick blur/filter on objects at range it's near impossible to see a "ECM stealthed" mech other than when it's in your face.

What's up with radar invisibility anyway? Who thought this was a good idea?

They need to make ECM more like the board game. It does too much, too well.

[Abivard]

why does there have to be asignificant drawback to ECM?


isn't the fact that only 4 chassis can equip it a drawback? 3 of which are lights.

Edited by Abivard, 17 December 2012 - 01:12 AM.