43 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

GoriKarafong, on 04 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I fear you people are missing the point I lke to proove. Most decent tacticians will find a way to counter exactly this tactic. But therefore you need to know that this tactic will be used, and prepare for it. Some random tactic group geting in a 8vs8 against a team doing this tactic will have a very hard time. Believe me.

So what I fear is DUE TO ECM, as designed by now, we will see lots of boring BASE CAMPER ECM Tactics.

To make it clear I dont want everyone to use this tactic. It is just the showcase how ECM screws with the gameplay at the moment. Feel free to comment on my "flawed" tactic. It is about ECM I am talking not the tactic itself, and by the way if you have a decent premade group try to live this tactic and see for yourself.

Regards
Gori

How is this any different than what happens in any other competitive online game? Some strategy or tactic emerges, and then people learn to counter it through experience.

An example in the game is when people use the tunnel in Frozen City to base rush before the other team realizes what is going on. The first time it happens, you get caught unaware. However, you quickly figure out a counter for it in future games: Scout the tunnel. Then that strategy works less and less as more people learn to scout for base rushes.

So what if people get caught off guard by base camping. Eventually they will learn a solid strategy to counter it. That's just how things work.

Edited by Jman5, 04 December 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[GoriKarafong]

It seems like I did a very bad job in explaining that I see

1st: a problem with ECM
2nd: a problem with how PGI changes game balance every once in a while

And I am wondering how many of you actually tried the tactic described. I got no feedback on this yet.

[Bilbo]

GoriKarafong, on 05 December 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

It seems like I did a very bad job in explaining that I see

1st: a problem with ECM
2nd: a problem with how PGI changes game balance every once in a while

And I am wondering how many of you actually tried the tactic described. I got no feedback on this yet.

It was tried by several teams we played against last night. It didn't go too well for them.

[GoriKarafong]

Bilbo, on 05 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

It was tried by several teams we played against last night. It didn't go too well for them.

Sorry I count this as a troll post. You did not do it yourself and you can not know what tactic the other team tried and how they did it, or what problem they had. Or did you speak with the other team afterwards?

[5th Fedcom Rat]

ngl, on 04 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

8v8 sucks completely. Its a campfest. 0 Fun. The Gamemode simply encourages camping.

Id rather win 95% of my games in under 3minutes in a 4man group. Than camp the first 7minutes in a 8v8 with 60% winrate.

But all we've been hearing for months now is how awesome 8 vs. 8 will be and how horrible PUG matches are. And how horrible PGI has been for delaying 8 vs.8. Less than 24 hours later, we're starting to hear that 8 vs. 8 is what anyone with half a brain could predict it would be like. No more fun than PUG matches. Leading to teams running for the exits, jumping ship, and posting justifications for why they plan to continue PUG stomping. All this was predicted by veteran PUG players weeks ago.

[Bilbo]

GoriKarafong, on 05 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Sorry I count this as a troll post. You did not do it yourself and you can not know what tactic the other team tried and how they did it, or what problem they had. Or did you speak with the other team afterwards?

I have eyes and a brain with which to put them to use. Your tactic was in use before ecm was implemented and it was actually harder to counter. Difference now is you have ecm yourself and can render their lrms worthless until you get inside their range, using cover to avoid direct fire. Then hit them from multiple directions so they can't easily focus fire.

[GoriKarafong]

I might just have been unlucky, but I feel to see more and more teams running lots of ECM mechs.

Personally I start to feel sick about seeing mostly the same 3-4 mechs/chassis because they can use ECM and just a few others for extra flavor. I fear this is just the start of more and more ECM heavy matches. I cant talk for the PUG matches so, just about 8vs8.

[Screech]

Bilbo, on 05 December 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Difference now is you have ecm yourself and can render their lrms worthless until you get inside their range, using cover to avoid direct fire. Then hit them from multiple directions so they can't easily focus fire.

How limiting a factor do you find map size currently on tactics? Currently maps seem a little too small for group 8v8 and completely inadequate for 12v12.

But I only am guessing wanted to hear from people who had some experiance with it.

[GoriKarafong]

I start to see some to use this kind of tactic or at least somewhat close. Luckly not too much yet but some and growing. Where you encountering this tactic yet? How was it?

[Ursh]

That's wonderful, now they know who to call just before their throat gets cut.

[GoriKarafong]

Interesting to see that more and more teams are doing what I posted in the first post. Could it be that I am not totally wrong and ECM is overpowerd? Could it be?

[ReD3y3]

GoriKarafong, on 16 December 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Interesting to see that more and more teams are doing what I posted in the first post. Could it be that I am not totally wrong and ECM is overpowerd? Could it be?

Good teams will eat all that atlas meat for lunch.

Theyd get sniped to shreds before the brawl even started.

[Teralitha]

GoriKarafong, on 04 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hello fellow mechwarriors,

if you want to "not loose" most of your 8vs8 games please use following tactis:

get 2 scout mechs with ecm. they need to be very fast and work as a team together. They will be your teams eyes and do not need to be fighting just informing the rest of the team what is going on. Stay alive, stay together and communicate to your team.

All other 6 mechs, best choose the ECM-Atlas, put some LRM (not too much) and lots of close range direct firepower in your mechs. Stay close to your own base, stay close togehter but dont stay in each others way. Listen to your eyes (the two above mentioned ECM scouts) and just wait until the enemy shows up at your base. Than the only thing you need to do is coordinate focus fire on enemies, dont brake the ranks and be patiend.

I am most certained you may win, or if the other team is doing the same end in a draw after 15 minutes.

This tactic will work, this is no troll post! But as a result rethink how boring this game will get if everyone will be playing like this. In this case please thank PGI for implementing ECM the way they did and wait until they will have a change in mind.

Something to do in the meantime: Dont play 8vs8, play PUG, as those are at least unpredictable and therefore fun ;-)

Regards
Gori

Really dude? You think no one figured this out yet besides you? I came up with that strategy before ECM was even put in. It was pathetically easy to figure out. Your way behind....

[Mack1]

r4plez, on 04 December 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

thanks, now i can get back to FarCry3!

LMAO now that was funny

[Parazaine]

Match-making for 8 man premades is the culprit here, not the ECM.

With proper match-making and weight limits, the only time you would face 8 assaults is if you ran 8 yourself.

This is primarily a result of the poor implementation of 8 man match-making....better than not having any, i guess, but only just.

Yes, an 8 man Atlas ECM team that camp their base, or worse, 3 Ravens with ECM and 5 Atlas ECM mechs currently enjoy the advantage in 8 man drops....that will change, hopefully, when proper match-making returns.

[F lan Ker]

S!

I do not mind ECM or FOTM teams, part of the gaming the game. What is most annoying is the lag and more so the self induced lag(screenshotting, netflix and whatnot) practised by players from a certain country I will not name. How do I know? Been playing against them for over 15 years and always the same stuff going on. When you can not hit a lumbering Atlas warping and lagging on screen..oh dear. When whole of their team does the same..oh dear x2. PGI should fix their lag and other issues ASAP.

Edited by F lan Ker, 16 December 2012 - 11:13 PM.

[semalferuzA]

Never seen 8 atlases try to sit on their base. Seen 5-6 atlas teams but they often get picked apart by phracts/pults before the fight starts. It is a lot of armor to go through though.

[BigJim]

Parazaine, on 16 December 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Match-making for 8 man premades is the culprit here, not the ECM.

Absolutely this.
No more to add.

[Asmudius Heng]

If the developers really wanted intresting mech matches at a competative level they would have looked at so many things differently. The culprit here is a number of things.

Terrible game mode
ECM
Lack of match making
Weapon imbalance
Poor netcode
etc
etc
etc

When a strategy like this is counted by taking all a team of say gaussapults to hammer the atlases, what happens when the other team takes all lights and the gaussapults keep missing due to poor netcode. What happens in conquest when someone takes all ECM ravens - runs in to cap one, sets themself on the enemy lights leaving the other team with slowpokes then splits up to cap all the points and win?

Balance means looking at EXACTLY how people will ABUSE a system to the extreme limits. Then make sure there are barriers to stop that, or thjat EXTREME limits come with such significant downsides that you would be highly discouraged to try it.

PGI has done a very poor job I feel of looking at the extreme levels of abuse that can happen and make sure hey design game mechanics to discourage this.

Extreme builds/ideas should have easy enough counters - but not ones that stop that extreme build from being worth something and should never have to have EXTREME counters - that is bad game design.

[Roadbuster]

GoriKarafong, on 04 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hello fellow mechwarriors,

if you want to "not loose" most of your 8vs8 games please use following tactis:

get 2 scout mechs with ecm. they need to be very fast and work as a team together. They will be your teams eyes and do not need to be fighting just informing the rest of the team what is going on. Stay alive, stay together and communicate to your team.

All other 6 mechs, best choose the ECM-Atlas,...

This is where I stopped reading.
All you say is "get 8 ECM mechs for a win".

Now, what does that tell us? Right, ECM is, in fact, overpowered.
TAG does nothing if inside ECM, not even for the mech firing it.
ECM in counter mode does only cancel 1 ECM effect. Why not all ECM effects in its AoE?