92 replies to this topic

[fxrsniper]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Gauss is now much closer to what it should be. An incredibly powerful, but fragile weapon system.

But not 3 crit points and 90% chance to explode

Thontor, on 04 December 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

CASE

Use it

Case has no affect on the rifle its self only ammo and since Gauss Ammo dont explode its useless

CutterWolf, on 04 December 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

This is a good question. I will explain why it explodes for you and those who don't know. The Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities, making it a devastating and lethal long-range weapon. Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.
Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.

That is why the weapon its self can cause an explosion but the ammo can not.

Case does not protect Gauss Rifle

Edited by fxrsniper, 05 December 2012 - 11:50 AM.

[fxrsniper]

Thontor, on 05 December 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

CASE prevents any internal explosion from transferring to your center torso. Usually ammunition, but also explosive equipment like Gauss Rifles. This is not "coded wrong". It's the way it works in canon.

If anything its a bit of a misnomer, and that's all.

Negative Case does not affect weapons explosions

[Tolkien]

About the gauss specifically I have to say that the item exploding is how it was supposed to be. They might have overdone it on the item health, but in TT weapons didn't have health - 1 crit anywhere on them and they were inoperable.

While I understand your frustration about getting your main weapon system targeted and knocked out, have you tried playing a hunchback? It's like having a giant 'kick me here' sign on your right torso. I believe it's a larger torso target than your atlas has.

this brings up a good point about mech balance - maybe PGI should consider buffing mech armor by a percentage to reflect the target size of the location. Like Catapults with their giant centre torsos, awesomes with their giant torsos, or hunchbacks with their kick me signs.

[fxrsniper]

Thontor, on 05 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Yes, it does.

Keep in mind CASE doesn't stop the ammo or Gauss rifle explosion fromhappening. It only prevents the damage from transferring to your center torso. Which will save your mech from being completely destroyed as long as you aren't using an XL engine.

Negative Been trying that for months it has no affect on it tried it in my dual Gauss Catphract nothing die just as quick Picture a big metal box in your mind full of explosive ammo it gets taking out instead of blowing up internally it blows away from the mech to prevent internal damage. Now same situation Case in a mech with nothing in it no ammo of any kind it gets hit it does nothing because there's nothing in it to be destroyed so its not going to blow out away from the mech thus doing nothing for it.

Edited by fxrsniper, 05 December 2012 - 12:06 PM.

[CutterWolf]

fxrsniper, on 05 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Negative Case does not affect weapons explosions

Sorry but I have to correct you on this. Battletech Masters Rule Book clearly states, "CASE is a damage-control technology that mitigates the effects of internal ammunition explosions. When ammo explodes in a location protected by CASE, the force of the explosion blows out through specially designed panels and armor, directing the main force of the explosion away from the BattleMech's vital components, such as the cockpit or the engine. If ammo (or any other explosive component, such as a Gauss Rifle) in a CASE equipped location explodes, it damages the internal structure in that location; then the excess damage simply dissipates the damage does not transfer to an additional internal structure location."

[fxrsniper]

Thontor, on 05 December 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Trying it for months eh? Funny considering Gauss Rifles explosions have only been happening for 2 days.

I have a feeling that the Gauss Rifle exploding is not what is killing you. Unless you have an XL engine, CASE won't help at all in that case..

funny Gauss rifle have been exploding since day one they just raised the chance % Tue.

[fxrsniper]

Thontor, on 05 December 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Actually, they haven't.

From the patch notes under "BUG FIXES"

"Fixed an issue that was preventing the Gauss rifle from exploding properly"

Well its a simple that when they take my Gauss out and it blows my whole right torso off that tells me its exploding and when I see my repair bill under items and its high that means it exploded

[fxrsniper]

CutterWolf, on 05 December 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Sorry but I have to correct you on this. Battletech Masters Rule Book clearly states, "CASE is a damage-control technology that mitigates the effects of internal ammunition explosions. When ammo explodes in a location protected by CASE, the force of the explosion blows out through specially designed panels and armor, directing the main force of the explosion away from the BattleMech's vital components, such as the cockpit or the engine. If ammo (or any other explosive component, such as a Gauss Rifle) in a CASE equipped location explodes, it damages the internal structure in that location; then the excess damage simply dissipates the damage does not transfer to an additional internal structure location."

Thats not how it is in this game regardless of the Battle tech rules beside it states that it stops internal spread of damage its not going to protect it from being destroyed which is the topic here

Thontor, on 05 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

You absolutely sure you aren't using an XL engine? Might want to double check.

No man not any more blow up to easy and cost to much now understand Im saying that it wont help stop the spread of damage Im stating that it wont protect it from being destroyed ammo does work but in this game its not working for Gauss rifle

[Caleb Lee]

Franklen Avignon, on 04 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Tell that to the dozens of mechs I've lost to people sniping with Gauss Rifles. They were a little strong, and they got a little nerf. I don't see the big deal.

Chances are you are in an Atlas or other slow mover and hence easy, big target to hit.

Try hitting a Commando or Jenner going 139? I used to do it often but it's not something your average player can do. It takes a lot of skill and no small amount of luck especially at 400+ out.

The maps are too small to implement this kind of nerf. It's not a small nerf, it's a freaking huge nerf. The weapon was already fragile compared to others and now it's twice as breakable. Now it also sports a small explosion 90% of the time when destroyed...

No, Case doesn't affect it either so don't tell us to mount case.

The point of the OP is that the dev team went WAY TOO FAR with this nerf as they have a bad habit of doing.

Having played since well into closed beta, I still enjoy the game but this... this was almost one step too far. I think I'll hold my $$ for now and see what they decide to do. That's probably the biggest way I can protest as well as continue to strip Gauss Rifle's out of every mech I own.

With the current lag shield and upcoming speed boosts to the ACs, the GR is frankly too much of a liability at this point.

Thanks PGI for ruining my all-time favorite weapon from the BT/Mechwarrior series...

(Oh, and before any GR haters go quoting TT rules, I know what they are and frankly you can shove it as PGI has chosen to implement what they want when they want and how they want. Just look at some of my other posts or look at the stats of missiles, DHS and more... this was uncalled for and an overreaction to all the whiners!)

[Creidhne]

Vreith, on 04 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

all i can say, is the game compared to table top fires 3x faster to heat dissipation (ie heat sinks are still not configured correctly) and with what seems no intention to change them, high end lasers will always be no where near as good as ballistics as ballistic can fire 3x with 1 heat in case of gauss, PPC fires 3 times with same weight including sinks to counter heat as the gauss plus some ammo, so one produces 3 heat, the other 30, and has the same time to reduce the heat, ie gauss beats it by miles, let alone does more damage. sooooo until PPC gets CC and causes ECM style CC, its not worth its weight for damage and heat management because how fast the game wants you to fire vs heat dissipation.

so they NEED to make significant down sides to the high end ballistic so it doesn't outright destroy the high end energy builds by defacto, as they already by nature of the game have made low heat producing (ie Ballistics) with high damage builds the bee's nee's and so over time you will see more damage increases on the PPC's LL's and LPL's to counter act the rate of fire to heat generation that ballistics so easily conquer.

the only major upside of energy is no drop of projectile over distance. and don't get me started on how the PPC should have to charge up, and be like a laser, but not a projectile.that travels. this alone + CC it needs would right alot of its usless abilities ATM. but with the introduction of ECm im sure PPC's CC is not far away

which also leaves you with a another problem, low end ballistics still generate a bit of heat for what they do, so they weigh alot still, do less damage and still require ammo, in the same boat as PPC but other end of the scale IMO, but not as bad end as PPC's are atm

Vreith, on 04 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

all i can say, is the game compared to table top fires 3x faster to heat dissipation (ie heat sinks are still not configured correctly) and with what seems no intention to change them, high end lasers will always be no where near as good as ballistics as ballistic can fire 3x with 1 heat in case of gauss, PPC fires 3 times with same weight including sinks to counter heat as the gauss plus some ammo, so one produces 3 heat, the other 30, and has the same time to reduce the heat, ie gauss beats it by miles, let alone does more damage. sooooo until PPC gets CC and causes ECM style CC, its not worth its weight for damage and heat management because how fast the game wants you to fire vs heat dissipation.

so they NEED to make significant down sides to the high end ballistic so it doesn't outright destroy the high end energy builds by defacto, as they already by nature of the game have made low heat producing (ie Ballistics) with high damage builds the bee's nee's and so over time you will see more damage increases on the PPC's LL's and LPL's to counter act the rate of fire to heat generation that ballistics so easily conquer.

the only major upside of energy is no drop of projectile over distance. and don't get me started on how the PPC should have to charge up, and be like a laser, but not a projectile.that travels. this alone + CC it needs would right alot of its usless abilities ATM. but with the introduction of ECm im sure PPC's CC is not far away

which also leaves you with a another problem, low end ballistics still generate a bit of heat for what they do, so they weigh alot still, do less damage and still require ammo, in the same boat as PPC but other end of the scale IMO, but not as bad end as PPC's are atm

The reference to this table top game is excrutiating to me....what ...is this monopoly???
If this game fails it is because it is basing all of it's reality on a table top game and not the one that people really joined this for... A realistic future battlefield. Plz listen I guaratee that table top players will not be in any majority when this goes retail. If you think a board game will be any factor in an Online success ya'll are really nuts and it deserves to fail.

Playin a table top game is a very different experience and is totally disconnected from the on-line world and it will forever remain so...PROMISE!!!

[Scarlett Avignon]

Irishmn, on 05 December 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

The reference to this table top game is excrutiating to me....what ...is this monopoly???
If this game fails it is because it is basing all of it's reality on a table top game and not the one that people really joined this for... A realistic future battlefield. Plz listen I guaratee that table top players will not be in any majority when this goes retail. If you think a board game will be any factor in an Online success ya'll are really nuts and it deserves to fail.

Playin a table top game is a very different experience and is totally disconnected from the on-line world and it will forever remain so...PROMISE!!!

Good point. While making a game based completely off of a tabletop miniature game, PGI should completely ignore the tabletop miniature game.

Logic level: Professional

[Lacewing]

I'm using CASE in my atlas with the Gauss Riffle and my center torso takes no damage if the G gets destroyed...

Edited by Breeder, 05 December 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[GrimlockONE]

chewie, on 04 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Ok, Now I understand the rationale behind this, because a lot of folks were unhappy about K2's delivering 30 points to 1 location.

So in order to placate the masses in the name of *balance*, PGI smashed it to pieces.

They didn't just nerf it, they destroyed it.

People were going for your locations that have it housed in, before the patch. You had to twist the moment yo got your shot off or risk getting it shot out when your opponents next shots hit you.

In my Atlas's, the 3 variants that I have, 2 of which still run the big G.
EVERY TIME, I got in a (sub 300 mtr) brawl, that's the first thing people will go for. Not bothered by my mediums or SRM's. No, go for the Big Gun.

So now with the nerf, it gets shot out even quicker, while say a Streak Cat has no such weakness, beyond the inherent ability to get its ears shot off.

Please, restore this weapon to its pre-patch state. Or at least reduce the chance to get a crit on it.

We all know that the Gauss cat was a cheese build, that just happened to take advantage of what is meant to be the premier weapon in the game.

Please. Don't make other builds suffer needlessly because of 1 variant.

Welcome to the world of an AC/20 user. The Gauss Rifle is a long range sniper weapon, not a brawler atlas weapon. At long range the Gauss will work as intended and have lower probability of getting destroyed. This is how MechWarrior should be and I am glad they have implemented the changes.

Read the SARNA article description of Gauss Rifle, then come back to me.

Quit ********, keep playing.

Edited by GrimlockONE, 05 December 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[fxrsniper]

GrimlockONE, on 05 December 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Welcome to the world of an AC/20 user. The Gauss Rifle is a long range sniper weapon, not a brawler atlas weapon. At long range the Gauss will work as intended and have lower probability of getting destroyed. This is how MechWarrior should be and I am glad they have implemented the changes.

Read the SARNA article description of Gauss Rifle, then come back to me.

Quit ********, keep playing.

Have you lost your mind or just in denial you can loose your Gauss rifle from being hit at long range that is a problem

[GrimlockONE]

fxrsniper, on 05 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Have you lost your mind or just in denial you can loose your Gauss rifle from being hit at long range that is a problem

Did you not read or understand what I posted. You sir are a [Redacted].

Taken from SARNA:

"Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion."

Gauss Rifles can be stripped off a mech now! Gasp! Even at long range you can still take enough damage, lose enough armor, that when you are hit again where the Rifle is housed that it will be destroyed. Sorry, that **** happens. Fortunately, only a few weapons can reach the same distance that the Gauss Rifle can.
I am not in denial, I actually am embracing the changes and am happy for them.

Edited by GrimlockONE, 05 December 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[Totnacht]

The change to Gauss is fine and canon.

The problem is only the GAUSSKAT, known as the glorious K2,

which is housing 2 garage-size weapons in damn machine gun slots, which are almost impossible to hit, because the left and right torse are the size of a mechapeanut.

IF it would be normal something BIG like the Hunchback AC/20 housing should be peeking out the left and right torso in the size of two cars, and a hit on one of those things is LEFT or RIGHT torso.

Problem fixed, glass cannon achieved which it's DAMN meant to be.

You do change the ears of the cat when you fix a Laser or PPC on it, PPC makes BIG ears so why shouldn't a GAUSS in the place of a machinegun make a big left and right torso ???

such an easy fix, so damn easy it's too obvious to be implemented.

[fxrsniper]

GrimlockONE, on 05 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Did you not read or understand what I posted. You sir are a [Redacted].

Taken from SARNA:

"Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion."

Gauss Rifles can be stripped off a mech now! Gasp! Even at long range you can still take enough damage, lose enough armor, that when you are hit again where the Rifle is housed that it will be destroyed. Sorry, that **** happens. Fortunately, only a few weapons can reach the same distance that the Gauss Rifle can.
I am not in denial, I actually am embracing the changes and am happy for them.

My point exactly you sir are blind

[fxrsniper]

Breeder, on 05 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

I'm using CASE in my atlas with the Gauss Riffle and my center torso takes no damage if the G gets destroyed...

Mine doesn't without it either but now when it explodes I loose that side of torso and arm so again in this game it has no affect on damage from losing gauss

[Dexxtaa]

"omg gaise PGI destroyed the game by making a weapon work as intended sperg sperg sperg."

Deal with it. It's not "breaking" for anyone but your biased self.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i like the new balance. even if it was reduced, its still no where nearly as dangerous as having to worry about a ton of ac/20 ammo go up on you.