165 replies to this topic

[Nightcrept]

From my observations it appears that ecm may have been balanced in a pre-made type testing environment but is not properly balanced for pug play.

So give your opinions.

I run atlas's of all sorts but my favorites are a founders lrm boat and a d-dc brawler.


Here are a few of my issues with the ecm.


1.It requires extremely effective teamwork to counter but not to use.

2.The game doesn't seem to balance for it when dropping teams.

3.Losing your ecm can by itself turn the battle.

4.Lrms cannot themselves counter ecm. (Renders them useless in none pre-made teams.)

Edited by Nightcrept, 04 December 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Sorry first poll so I didn't notice the reply box.

[River Walker]

Yes thy work but it seem New player or pugs group up around ECM Mech.
Thy need to learn to move with the battle and use ECM Mech player as a way to keep cover.
Team player understand this and move but keep the ECM Mech in centre to cover their foreword advance, Pugs do not for some reason.

Pug player seem to teats the ECM Mech like a wall to hide behind.

Edited by River Walker, 04 December 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Buzzkillin]

It is a team based game that teams should use the resources on the battlefield to win.

[SpiralRazor]

There can be no balance to ECM/Null Signature when it has zero disadvantages that its supposed to have.

[Moonsavage]

For those people who voted "yes" - go play 10 games before you clicky clicky :-P

[Khobai]

ECM is not balanced. Its too game-changing for only 1.5 tons and absolutely no downside.

[Nightcrept]

I've played both my mech types.

I can still get kills with my lrm but only if the other team doesn't stay with their ecm.

[Blowfeld]

Will test playing ECM mechs and versus ECM mechs intensively before putting my vote anywhere.
First I need to get a feeling for it, try counter measures and see if it is useful pugging or premade...

Too much to test before I have sharpened my opinion

[Ghogiel]

Moonsavage, on 04 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

For those people who voted "yes" - go play 10 games before you clicky clicky :-P

I played 12 games. I jammed the **** out of everyone. 11/1 W/L.

I like it.

Don't think it's very balanced though.

[Nightcrept]

Gailyn Strome, on 04 December 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well they finally did it, they made light mechs the only mechs worth playing. Patch afer patch they completely shatter the idea of the gameplay in this game and each completely insane item they add or change to cater to the fairy fan boys makes the game worst. "It's a beta", I get that but PGI has shown no sign of learning from the countless other Team Vs Team based combat games, of which there are thousands.

I was suckered into believing in this game, even through the LRM Mistake, Streak Mistake, AC Spam Mistake and now this. There is little to no actual customization left in this game, think about it. Can you take an ECM? If yes, take ECM. Do you have 3 Ballistic Slots? If yes, spam AC/2 or AC/5. Otherwise spam low end lasers and streaks. Every single mech can be pidgeon holed into 3 basic setups, that is weak, really weak.

So, I am done with this game. I would sell my account but PGI would just ban it anyway. Enjoy the money to milked out of me PGI you won't be getting any more.

Also, love the "Hero" mechs. Or as players call them "AFK Bots".

Ah man. I wish you wouldn't roll out of the game. I know the balancing process can be a bit disheartening but I think we will get this all sorted out.

[Egyas]

ECM is a game changer indeed. It changed to game to "not worth playing". All that money spent on mechs that were LRM boats (or even just LRM equpied) to find them useless. Streaks? Fugetaboutit!

This game just changed to making the Raven and that god-forsaken Jenner the ONLY mech's with playing. For shame.

[Quad Ace]

Khobai, on 04 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

ECM is not balanced. Its too game-changing for only 1.5 tons and absolutely no downside.

Being that the game isn't complete, nothing can be considered game changing. Of course, I bet the people that wanted the LRM nerf are thinking about it differently now.

[FunkyFritter]

It's too early to say much at this point beyond "ECM is powerful and changes how people play the game." I'm giving it a week or so to see what answers people come up with before passing judgement.

[aspect]

One ECM counters another ECM directly. How is it possible to not be balanced? Sorry if it seems like you are dropping against teams with ECM more than having them on your team, but I assure you that you have an equal chance of being helped or hurt by it, and even then it comes down to how the people with the ECM's are using them.

I am SO happy that more complex strategies are starting to be required than "hide behind the building" or "camp tunnel exit".

[KageRyuu]

At the moment it's not balanced at all, or rather it's impossible to tell if it is balanced because of how it's used as opposed to how it was intended to be used.

Instead of giving a few mechs a specific and important role like it was supposed to do, what you get are 8 man ECM heavy teams running mostly ECM capable lights swarming over you using their ECM and Lag Shield to negate the vast majority of damage you can throw at them, while in PUG matches it's not much different only less coordinated.

Because before the latest patch the only effective weapon to use against Lights was streaks because of the glitchy hit boxes, now with ECM streaks are completely useless so you have to play "where's the hit box" and hope you can leg the little ******* before they kill you, which is like playing Russian Roulette with a Semi-Auto a full magazine and one already in the chamber.

So what am I saying, well, the combination of ECM and ****** net code ala moving hit boxes has made it pointless to play anything but an ECM capable light mech. Because really the only counter for ECM at the moment is another ECM and there are only so many ECM capable mechs available to select from. Don't even talk about TAG, it might be useful against the Atlas DC, but against the Lights it's useless, because by time your able to use it they're already on you.

So really, PGI needs to do one of two things fast, reinstate knock down until they can properly fix the net code or remove ECM until they properly fix the net code so that this game doesn't degenerate into an arms race for ECM capable Light Mechs.

Edited by KageRyuu, 04 December 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[Nightcrept]

aspect, on 04 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

One ECM counters another ECM directly. How is it possible to not be balanced? Sorry if it seems like you are dropping against teams with ECM more than having them on your team, but I assure you that you have an equal chance of being helped or hurt by it, and even then it comes down to how the people with the ECM's are using them.

I am SO happy that more complex strategies are starting to be required than "hide behind the building" or "camp tunnel exit".

It's actually removing strategy not adding to it.

Ecms only being countered by ecms means only 4 mechs can counter those four mechs. Other mechs have no counter for the ecm.
Lrms are not worth the effort because they have no ecm thus they are not a viable build. That removes the long range threat from the game.

I am a ecm boat most of the time. The problem is the whole game can now turn on one ecm boat. Not which team is better etc but who has the ecm boat or more ecms then the other team.

When one module, weapon or device on one mech can decide the outcome of a game regularly then it is imo op.

[FrostCollar]

I'll withhold more judgement until I've played more than a day of using and facing ECM, but already an impression is forming for me. Right now, I'm thinking that the ECM effect itself isn't overpowered (hear me out!) but its counters are underpowered. Certainly, ECMs can counter other ECM units, but I'm talking about NARC and TAG.

For example, I'd be quite willing to try NARC beacons as being able to defeat ECM on units that are hit by one. In addition though TAG cannot transmit to friendly units when you're inside an ECM bubble, I would also be willing to try having it so that the carrying unit itself still benefits. Allowing people to benefit more from their own TAGs and NARCs could kill two birds with one stone:
1. The prisoner's dilemma of TAG and NARC - if you have missiles you benefit from others using it but you're clearly at a disadvantage if you use one yourself compared to people who took another weapons system.
2. The fact that the best (and for the most part only) counter for ECM is currently ECM. This unfortunately encourages having 8 person teams where most or even all mechs carry ECM units.

[ReD3y3]

give ECM some time

I feel that LRM boaters and streak cat users are the ones crying foul

WTF? if srms and lbx10s actually had a role?

Blasphemy!

[1gor0K]

ECM totally destroyd gameplay. Jenners washed away and Ravens dominate field now and make ssrm totally useless in fight with them.