165 replies to this topic

[Tarrok]

Having played a lot of 8-man post-patch, I'd have to say that ECM is a nice game changer for that environment. It allows for interesting tactics and I have seen a lot more variety in how my matches play out. As an initial implementation I believe it's good, but it needs some work to become great.

I think both TAG and NARC should be viable tools to light up a designated target for lock-on weapons. There is currently very little opportunity to use LRMs against the enemy unless you overpower them with your own ECM. Having viable counters other than more ECM will reduce the total amount of ECM on the field and add more tactical options.

People are saying that teams with more ECM automatically win, but my experience today partly contradicts that statement. I say partly because being jammed and not knowing where your team is can be very deadly, especially in city locations. Yet I found it similar to dealing with chain-firing streak cats. At first you get totally hammered and owned, but then you realize that your crosshairs don't move as you get knocked around and blinded so you can still return fire. That requires practice and some experience, just like you need practice dealing with being jammed.

Once I started keeping better track of everyone's positions and the drop leader communicated orders clearly, it didn't matter if we were being jammed, we focused fire on the designated target and clear instructions over TS let us deal with any jamming. Don't get me wrong though, losing out on all that information puts you at a disadvantage, but it is by no means an automatic loss.

I have other complaints about the lack of weight/class restrictions with the 8v8 matchmaker but those are completely separate to ECM, as is the bad netcode that leads to fast ECM Ravens being extremely difficult to kill.

I'd love to see how ECM develops since there's some interesting possibilities to either restrict some of its abilities to modules/pilot skills or perhaps give us means to reduce its effects via the same.

It needs work, but I had a blast with it today.

[Apoc1138]

ECM could do with a few tweaks, but it is not far off. I wouldn't want to see the massive nerf hammer come out to play on this one.

Detection range should be increased from 200 to 300m giving you more than 20m to play with
increase on range of TAG is good
NARC should be increased to >30s instead of 15-20s and should work against ECM

BAP should also have some small effect on increasing range of detection

also remember that ECM is new, so everyone that CAN run ECM is doing so, I would expect to see this settle down a little as people return to their work-a-day mechs that they actually enjoy playing more once they realise that ECM is actually not all powerful and people develop their game to counter it

before ECM, you always knew where the enemy were and where they were going... now at least it adds some variety to the tactics you can use

Edited by Apoc1138, 05 December 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[F lan Ker]

S!

ECM is a nice addition, but at the moment in team matches all you see is Atlas D-DC's and other ECM boats. And there are no tonnage limits so it kind of tips the balance off with meds facing assaults etc. in unlimited numbers. One match was 5 Atlas, 1 HBK, 1 CPLT and Raven against the mixture of non-assaults. Not complaining, but kind of a boring to see blobbing becoming the FOTM with ECM. Where did diversity go? ECM or lose

[Lyrik]

Played 6 games yesterday after patch. 2 with 2xLRM15, 4xML Catapult and 4 with my Jenner 4xMPL. I had a lot of fun in all of them. Thank you PGI for making this awesome game :-)

In every match we had 2-3 Mechs equipped with ECM on both sides. They are popular.

The good:
Much less SSRM and LRM mechs online. .
More tactics. Sneak and hide is really fun with Mechs who a speed between ~60 and 70.
ECM Mech is the new StreakCat/Gausscat. Priority Target xD

The bad.
To cheap in weights, heat, crits, CB.
A little bit to strong against LRM and SSRM.


Instead of nerving ECM they should buff TAG :-)

[Elkarlo]

How about: BaP allows to Lock on the ECM Source?
I think thats the easiest part to do... big strong signal of Multifrequent jamming... Easy Target..
In the Army we learned: When operating an ECM Jammer... stay away at least 20 Meters from it and Dig a good Shelter BEFORE aktivating it... as it is an Homing Beacon for Artillery..

Only BaP allows it and sorrounding Mechs are still covered... But when 8 Atlases turn on ECM we got 8 Bright Beacons...

When only 2 Turn on... 6 can hide and give AMS cover.

Edited by Elkarlo, 05 December 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[Brut4ce]

aspect, on 04 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

One ECM counters another ECM directly. How is it possible to not be balanced? Sorry if it seems like you are dropping against teams with ECM more than having them on your team, but I assure you that you have an equal chance of being helped or hurt by it, and even then it comes down to how the people with the ECM's are using them.

I am SO happy that more complex strategies are starting to be required than "hide behind the building" or "camp tunnel exit".

LOL! Yes, Now it has gotten REALLY complex. "Hide behind that ECM FATLAS", or "woohoo. Run around like crazy with that ECM Raven", "OH,OH, there's the other team coming along by their ECM mech, lets have a nice mexican standoff....Badda bing badda bang,i die, you die,he dies..." LOL!

ReD3y3, on 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

give ECM some time

I feel that LRM boaters and streak cat users are the ones crying foul

WTF? if srms and lbx10s actually had a role?

Blasphemy!

LOL again! Every weapon has a role, and has been used by players around the community. The trully astonishing thing i have noticed since i started playing this game, is the level of the community itself. I come from a much older line of players, and i dunno if i am nostalgic of those times and fondly remember them, but back then ppl really did came together harmonically, and the atmosphere in games like this was really easy going, and ppl enjoyed it. Was it because of the ppl's spirits, or the communities' format i dunno.... Now listen to us now....I 've been reading through the forums, and the things that continually strike me the most are...."You PUGers, You StrCaters, You Boaters, You whatever"...ROLF! It feels like the inquisition all over again, or the 3k Reborn...Maybe we should setup an impaling post in the center of the forest colony, or a great big fire in the crater of Caustic valley or something and Xorsize all these Bad ppl. LOL times 2!
Anyways just my opinion, is it a sign of current times or a result of poor design i do not know. Its up to PGI i guess, 'cause from my experience, ppl tend to act and react by their own accords, within the set of rules of a community.
...maybe i bragged more than i shouldn't here... Anyways hope things get sorted out, still enjoy the game more or less

*Cheers*

[Nightcrept]

Many of you are being very self centered.

This is about balance for all players in all modes. It isn't about sticking it to the LRM boaters or streak cats. That should be handled through weapons balance.

I do not drop with pre-mades so the balance issue in those type of games i will not dare to speculate about.

However, in pug games it comes down to who has the most ecm mechs. That is the very definition of not balanced.

Do you remember when the lrm artemis patch turned the game into rocket warrior online. The team who won was usually the one with the most lrm boats. That was a serious unbalance.

And this is a worse unbalance then that.

[Veevslav]

To those that think ECM is balanced and adds something would you mind if I give certain mechs a magnetic shield that stops all enemy ballistics rifles from firing or slows down the projectile to a crawl so it is easily dodged by an atlas.... Only certain mechs can equip it and it can counter itself. Tag can also counteract it if you are far enough away?

How about armor with no draw backs but completely nullifies laser fire for every mech that equips it?

PPC disruption field that disperses PPC's shots without any damage being dealt......

Each of those things would be just as balanced as ECM is currently. That is to say it isnt.

[Egyas]

Veevslav, on 05 December 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

To those that think ECM is balanced and adds something would you mind if I give certain mechs a magnetic shield that stops all enemy ballistics rifles from firing or slows down the projectile to a crawl so it is easily dodged by an atlas.... Only certain mechs can equip it and it can counter itself. Tag can also counteract it if you are far enough away?

How about armor with no draw backs but completely nullifies laser fire for every mech that equips it?

PPC disruption field that disperses PPC's shots without any damage being dealt......

Each of those things would be just as balanced as ECM is currently. That is to say it isnt.

AWESOME post!

[Doommetal]

I do not play a streak-cat, or an LRM boat, I did however have 2 ssrms on my centurion CN9-D and my favorite dragon build, I prefer to operate medium mechs, I think ECM is unbalanced.
Why?
1: obvious- hitting a mech moving at 140kph is a chore, and my ammo is limited, while I do consider mysefl a good shot and kills lights on a normal basis with gauss+med lasers, mounting standard SRMs sucks, while high DPS they fire with a very large delay making leading very difficult, if I could mount something OTHER then missiles in those hardpoints I would (my mech survives by keeping moving, not for brawling, the purpose of the streaks was to counter lights).
2: Camping, the average 8v8 ive played turned into a campfest, with either team not wanting to make a move, this is......boring, and will not help the longevity of the game, the average player picking up the game will be seriously turned off by this.
3: Assaultwarrior Online, many many drops consisted of 4+ atlas d-dc, filled with with other heavies or lights (usually 2-3 cataphracts), the ecm war of escalation is leading to some very unblanced drops, there needs to be a drop weight limit, period, you are rendering many medium mechs nearly obsolete.
4: I just plain found the matches boring, staring at heat vision, waiting for any kind of enemy lock, or blip on radar, If it continues in this way I may very well call it quits, not saying its not a good game, it is, its just not my style of play.

[Nightcrept]

ECM has made the game uber brawl fest.

[Camulos]

Kylon Kostaja, on 04 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

ECMS? so LRM and Streaks can not be used anymore and pre-mades are rolling atlas all they way across the map without being observed to drop the hammer right on top of you.

I would hardly say this is balanced. Takes most of the fun out of game play. I'm not one to cry about quitting during every change but this is just awful.

I also love the recent medium and light mech groups that cap rush while stealthed. That really makes the game fun.

What you mean scout mechs actually have to SCOUT and SPOT now like they were designed to do? Not just run around taking down Heavy Mechs with impunity because tripping was removed? Get some scout or other mechs with TAG and NARC, use teamwork, and stop your crying.

Or god forbid load out your mechs with something besides just huge banks of Artemis LRMs attempting to poach easy kills from 1000m away whilst padding your KvD ratio so you can stroke your e-peen......

ECM is a game changer yes, but it was a MUCH needed one as Streaks and LRMs were allowing non-skilled players to dominate the field of battle without much risk on their part. You cannot tell me that something is NOT overpowered when on a drop of 8 people at least 3 were streakcats, 3-4 were LRM boats and anything left was a light with streaks.

Edited by Camulos, 05 December 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Camulos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

What you mean scout mechs actually have to SCOUT and SPOT now like they were designed to do? Not just run around taking down Heavy Mechs with impunity because tripping was removed? Get some scout or other mechs with TAG and NARC, use teamwork, and stop your crying.

Or god forbid load out your mechs with something besides just huge banks of Artemis LRMs attempting to poach easy kills from 1000m away whilst padding your KvD ratio so you can stroke your e-peen......

ECM is a game changer yes, but it was a MUCH needed one as Streaks and LRMs were allowing non-skilled players to dominate the field of battle without much risk on their part. You cannot tell me that something is NOT overpowered when on a drop of 8 people at least 3 were streakcats, 3-4 were LRM boats and anything left was a light with streaks.

And your going to try to claim that one piece of equipment can render an entire weapons group un-usable is somehow balanced?

And don't try the carry a tag and or narc and use teamwork act on me. That is nonsense in pugs. You might get one game out of a dozen where someone helps you out.

Lrms have not been nerfed they have been removed. Combat ineffective.

[Asmosis]

ECM is fine,

ECCM is not. the counter to ECM should be available to all (most) mechs in the same way AMS is available to all (most) mechs.

[Nightcrept]

That would work.

[GalaxyBluestar]

i can report after 5 hours so of fighting over the last couple of days that ecm has brainwashed players into sameme tactics that win over those who are lit up and ambushed without ecm. missles are almost exstinct and are usually the first mechs to be targets as other targets are too well hidden. infact before ecm radar was incredibly lacking compared with old mech warrior games and this is like the straw that broke the camels back. more people are using brawler tactics and not using radar at all. radar has almost become redundant in itself and thus why do we have it. this really isn't anything like mech warrior now, just bots with heat and some lasers and cannons.

really who is stupid enough to weigh their mech down on the off chance that they can get a good hit in with missles. no it's not going to happen. welcome to mech brawler

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 05 December 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

LRMs were finally buried. I hope you're all happy; players that couldn't learn how to use cover at all.

[Nightcrept]

Bluten, on 05 December 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

LRMs were finally buried. I hope you're all happy; players that couldn't learn how to use cover at all.

Many players are self centered cod babies and are indeed happy to have mwo be more in line with a mindless brawler.

But the poll does show that the majority want it balanced out a bit more.

[wanderer]

Right now, ECM is doing more than it should.

It should be rendering Artemis/NARC/missile boosters useless and disabling Streak guidance, and disabling advanced target-sharing like what gives LRMs 1000m range vs 630m.

Instead, it renders normal LRM fire useless and disables Streak launchers, period. Overkill.

That it also gives impressive stealth abilities is turning most matches I'm in into blob-of-death tactics. While I approve of PUGs learning to stick together, it's a little much there as well.

[Nightcrept]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Right now, ECM is doing more than it should.

It should be rendering Artemis/NARC/missile boosters useless and disabling Streak guidance, and disabling advanced target-sharing like what gives LRMs 1000m range vs 630m.

Instead, it renders normal LRM fire useless and disables Streak launchers, period. Overkill.

That it also gives impressive stealth abilities is turning most matches I'm in into blob-of-death tactics. While I approve of PUGs learning to stick together, it's a little much there as well.

I agree with you 100 percent.