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Thinking Of Long Range Weapons? Don't Do It!


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#41 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

View PostMrPenguin, on 05 December 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

TheTrap, I've played with some incredibly skilled players who swear by that build and can use it with terrifying efficiency. You really should stop your banter, its unneeded. And not only that, this is mechwarrior, everyone is allowed to make the mech they chose. Your elitist boasting is insulting to the entire fanbase. Theirs no need for you to insult his build, especially since its a build thats been proven in battle.


Well do they consistently rack up 800+ damage then ? What do you define "terrifying efficiency" ?

I'm not saying "stop doing this". I'm just weighing the pros and cons and after doing so, it's clear it has very limited utility in the current maps as they do not favour it. Along with very limited ammo.

How am I boasting ? Or should I post cherrypicked videos as well ?

#42 aspect

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:31 PM

Guys, OBVIOUSLY the armor is horrible. OBVIOUSLY it gets demolished when a single light mech gets within 50m and if a coordinated team is present. What are you trying to prove to me (or the forum in general)? That you've played the game, used the mechlab, and can do basic math?

Why is having a dangerous playstyle with a mech that's either brilliant or horrible each match deserving of weird passive-aggressive snide remarks?

TheTrap, I would tell you to grow up, but based on my demographics poll I know that almost everyone on here is an adult. So, I guess you are stuck that way. Also, it's a 200XL.

#43 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostGaden Phoenix, on 05 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

@Aspect

While TheTrap is being a total elitism noob, It is quite hard to put 2 ppcs and 2 gauss into a catapult without sacrificing alot of other stuff, like armor.

As a light mech jenner (without ecm), I like to go from mechs like yours.

It is still a viable glass cannon build though. I have seem some pro, that can aim and hit my striving jenner from incredible distances :)

Back to topic, I think long range weapons currently, need alot alot of skill to play. You need to:
1. factor in lag
2. factor in lead time before a shot if fired
3. lead your shot, factoring in were the enemy is going

This (and the weight issue) cause many to go CQ instead, as you can pack more weapons inside (higher dps/heat) and it is easier to aim.

I think alot of issues will be solved when the netcode lagging issue is fixed.

Regards



well done sir you've nailed the point head on with the knowladge of the light's percpective. yes if i were a light that's exactly what i'd be doing. a sniper like me hates you cause your speed makes shots harder but that is balanced gameplay that's good mechwarior that as an assult pilot i need skill in putting myself in the right place to target without you coming along and smothering me to death. light pilots need the driving skills not to run into anything {sadly few have this skill so i get easy shoots in} that's why fire supports are dying out cause all to often you're brawling or a straggler. you don't want to be picked off as a straggler but if the brawl is to close those jenner pilots might notice you're easy meat and you're a gonner. now the ecm has encouraged more of the brawler camping huddling tactics on maps which most are unfavorable anways so that's my concern. that's what the topic's about.

#44 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:40 PM

View Postaspect, on 05 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Guys, OBVIOUSLY the armor is horrible. OBVIOUSLY it gets demolished when a single light mech gets within 50m and if a coordinated team is present. What are you trying to prove to me (or the forum in general)? That you've played the game, used the mechlab, and can do basic math?

Why is having a dangerous playstyle with a mech that's either brilliant or horrible each match deserving of weird passive-aggressive snide remarks?

TheTrap, I would tell you to grow up, but based on my demographics poll I know that almost everyone on here is an adult. So, I guess you are stuck that way. Also, it's a 200XL.


You'll have to excuse me for viewing your video at super low res then. On a 2.5" screen with **** internet.

You mean, semi decent every 5 rounds and flat out useless in the rest ?

in case you failed to notice, I was never intending on being condescending but your lack of ability to take criticism for your build is just <facepalm>

#45 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

I'll thank you for keeping me entertained though. As well as shedding light on how lightly armoured this config is since I never even remotely considered it as 2XGR + 4mlas/smlas would be a lot more logical.

#46 Gaden Phoenix

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

@ GalaxyBluestar

Yea I feel your pain. Long range weapons that are not LRMs are really hard to use. It is like the mark of skill to use them constantly well.

Maps also do not encourage long range weapons. Or should I say, a combination of maps and the way people play, do not encourage long range weapons.

Most maps has areas which long range weapons can shine but you will near never see anyone going those routes. It is suicide. It is a lesson that many include me learned when LRM boats were king. Any mech is the open is near instant death.

We cannot really blame CQ mechs for not using open routes. Also maps cannot have to much open areas without cover. It is really tough to balance CQ vs Long range. Makes me glad, I not the developer.

As for ECM, I feel, they needs some tweaks. Here are some of what I think:
1. ECM should not stack
2. BAP should counter ECM. Allow mechs under ECM field except for ECM mechs to be detected at standard (not BAP) range.
3. Once a player sees and locks on an ECMed mech, the target lock should stay logged on as per normal or maybe slightly lesser.
4. If target lock is broken, an ECMed mech should disappear from radar again.
5. Map section should become transparent light red for 5 seconds to show others that an ECM mech was sighted there, if lock is lost.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 05 December 2012 - 09:54 PM.


#47 LaserAngel

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

The Large Laser is currently the most effective heavy energy weapon. It can even pull double duty against nearly all but the fastest mechs. The PPC is viable with Double Heat Sinks but bare in mind that your role will be shifted to ranged fire support. You might get lucky an hit a Light mech going in a straight line. It's good night for them then.

Edited by LaserAngel, 05 December 2012 - 10:00 PM.


#48 Davers

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

View Postaspect, on 05 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

I was going to write a post about how I got it to this point, my thought process after playing 50kxp worth of K2 matches , how I play it and how it's most effective etc, but then I got to the last part of your post and realized you are just an assh*le trying to burn me on playing a "bad" mech for some reason.

Enjoy your enormous sense of self-satisfaction.

How dare you not make a cookie cutter build?!?!? Don't you know there is only 1 way to play a K2?
Seriously, making and trying out new designs, and making them work for you, is one of the most rewarding parts of the game. If you don't like it, don't run it.

My K2 with 2 ERLL, 2 ML, AC/10 approves this build! :)

#49 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

I pray to the gods I never have the misfortune to drop together and the fortune to drop against you guys then :)

#50 Davers

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

As you are a dirty Snake, I scoff at the former, and look forward to the later. :)

#51 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:16 PM

the way the game is now with one game mode, relatively similar maps favouring close ranged engagements with plenty of cover, only leads to clear winning "cookie cutter" builds.

When you deviate too much it's only clear you're a hindrance to the team.

#52 Davers

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

Oh yes, there is only one true way to play, and only one build per chassis. I forgot. And any group that doesn't take 6 Atlas DDC and 2 Cicadas all rocking ECM is playing wrong. Gotcha.

If this is really the case, then there really isn't a future for MWO. Might as well get rid of customization altogether and just drop in trial mechs (but only the good variants!)

#53 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

Search your heart. Can you honestly say a team with a bunch of random builds (oh just because I can!)

Would win a bunch of "cookie cutters" of equal skill ? Clearly the latter would. They wouldn't be termed "cookie cutter" otherwise.

It's sad but the way it is right now, mechlab is a pretty much no brainer.

#54 TheTrap

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

I honestly believe customisation is a lie in its current state and it only exists for people to delude themselves into thinking they stand a chance against "cookie cutter" mechs.

As well as for my enemies to nerf themselves willingly of course :)

#55 Redmond Spiderhammer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostTheTrap, on 05 December 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

the way the game is now with one game mode, relatively similar maps favouring close ranged engagements with plenty of cover, only leads to clear winning "cookie cutter" builds.

When you deviate too much it's only clear you're a hindrance to the team.

sad but true... I do reasonably well playing from the 'standard' builds. When I go out with something a little different I usually end up having more fun but I am clearly less effective and thus a hindrance to my team

#56 Dr Killinger

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

My Atlas with 2 PPCs and 1 Gauss has never been happier. Keep your eyes peeled, and watch that enemy freak out when he starts taking crippling fire from 650m while he's under the cover of his precious ECM!

#57 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

View PostGaden Phoenix, on 05 December 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

@ GalaxyBluestar

Yea I feel your pain. Long range weapons that are not LRMs are really hard to use. It is like the mark of skill to use them constantly well.

Maps also do not encourage long range weapons. Or should I say, a combination of maps and the way people play, do not encourage long range weapons.

Most maps has areas which long range weapons can shine but you will near never see anyone going those routes. It is suicide. It is a lesson that many include me learned when LRM boats were king. Any mech is the open is near instant death.

We cannot really blame CQ mechs for not using open routes. Also maps cannot have to much open areas without cover. It is really tough to balance CQ vs Long range. Makes me glad, I not the developer.

As for ECM, I feel, they needs some tweaks. Here are some of what I think:
1. ECM should not stack
2. BAP should counter ECM. Allow mechs under ECM field except for ECM mechs to be detected at standard (not BAP) range.
3. Once a player sees and locks on an ECMed mech, the target lock should stay logged on as per normal or maybe slightly lesser.
4. If target lock is broken, an ECMed mech should disappear from radar again.
5. Map section should become transparent light red for 5 seconds to show others that an ECM mech was sighted there, if lock is lost.


thanks for the very logical and well understood post. why do i make a post like this? because i want to see lots of different gameplay styles flourish and for months we just have lazy exploiters all doing the same thing which makes such boring gameplay. i'm concerned that material becomes irrelevent to a good match, i didn't bat an eyelid when lrm's were originally nerfed cause it was exploited. caustic vally was a nightmare trying to run away from 6 mechs all fireing cockpit shattering missles at you but it's still wrong to say it's okay now that we're all boating closerange weapons and ecm. variety is the spice of life and it would seem that with each new patch a new flavour overwhelms everything else. my job to post the topic is to create awearness and discuss the problem and see if it's true, has effected the majority of gameplay and if it's spoiling game mechanics items etc then what's the fix. the fix bit is unnecessary on this topic due to all the ecm stuff on the forums but it's interesting to hear the responce and the support {or lack there of} for such weapons and support mechs that have just as much right to be effective as a jenner or an ecm atlas.

i hope you've made those suggestions on the ecm topic in the patch feedback section of the forum. they sound okay.

#58 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

View PostLaserAngel, on 05 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

The Large Laser is currently the most effective heavy energy weapon. It can even pull double duty against nearly all but the fastest mechs. The PPC is viable with Double Heat Sinks but bare in mind that your role will be shifted to ranged fire support. You might get lucky an hit a Light mech going in a straight line. It's good night for them then.


true and i've seen 5 mounted to a cataphract??? once but it's not a true ranged weapon merly the next step up from the medium, so you're not going to spot targets beyond 800m with that, the spectating i saw was really it was an alpha sticker that overheated with one blast and was very impractical, anything less and a ac20 hunchie can easily our run flank and outgun it.

#59 Lightfoot

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

You can still use long range, you just have to think ahead of where to set your ambush. :D

#60 Digglesworth_

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:52 PM

Funny, PPC's and Missles were popular in the earlier MW's because it was easier to shred mechs with them... so what if MWO changes the MechWarrior you know??... maybe that's what it's going to take to make it a successful franchise, which the other MW's cannot legitimately claim with the exception of a few earlier examples. I'm not saying use them, i'm just asking you to keep an open mind, why does it have to be the same thing every time? change is good.





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