253 replies to this topic

[Bear44]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let me put this a different way.

You play basketball. In the past, if you wanted to shoot the ball, someone would have to put effort in to try and block you.

Now, Nike has released a new shoe that all a player has to do is stand by you to completely disable your ability to shoot the ball. He doesn't have to block you. He doesn't have to even be sneaky. He just needs to stand by you. That's it. And now you can't shoot the ball.

Oh, his shoes go faster than yours, so you can't run away from his AoE ball shooting nerf either.



That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

not the best analogy cause throwing the basketball is more like lasers. you actually have to aim. and the circle has to be on target, but with lrm and ssrm, the circle doesn't have to be dead on with the enemy, just within this big lock on square.

[Epathus]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

So, then we should just remove LRMS and SSRMs from the game then.

Yes, this is what you are saying here.

I wish PGI didn't have that pesky code of conduct where you can't call people out on how stupid they are have intelligence but only using a fraction of it when speaking (I believe that’s also the definition of being a F***tard).

Maybe I'm biased because I'm a raven pilot, but I think ECM is fine and gives the Raven the much needed edge it was desperately asking for. I'm sorry if you don't know how to fend off a 35 ton mech with something almost twice its weight, but it’s probably because you suck, especially since your turning speed, torso twist, and medium laser count (I could add what your mech OUTRANKS me with if you want) is about the same as mine.

I conclude with the following: the asinine point keeps being made that a light is taking a heavy out of the fight, which begs the question...WTF IS YOUR LIGHT PILOT DOING?!

edit: copy and paste didn't work so well the first time

Edited by Epathus, 05 December 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Purlana]

Epathus, on 05 December 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I wish PGI didn't have that pisky code of conduct where you can't call people out on how stupid they are have intelligence but only using a fraction of it when speaking (I believe thats also the definition of being a F***tard).

Maybe I'm biased because I'm a raven pilot, but I think ECM is fine and gives the Raven the much needed edge it was despreately asking for. I'm sorry if you don't know how to fend off a 35 ton mech with something almost twice its weight, but its probably because you suck, especially since your turning speed, torso twist, medium laser count (i could add what you OUT RANK me with) is about the same as mine.

Yes, a missle boat can easily kill other mechs with only it's lasers!

Oh wait, no it can't....

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Mr Mantis]

I thought this would be terrible for spotters, because less people carry srm. My spotting assists have gone up segnificantly because that one guy on my team who brought LRMs to an ECM fight Greatly appreaciates being able to shoot something.

in a cat if you are lrm or even gauss boating you have always had the issue with lights "ankle biteing". the cats short range capability is low unless streaked up, in which case its long range capability is low. I do think that narc need a buff so that the poor cat pilots can come back to play.

[R3B0]

Well, I think it is fine. How dare there exist a counter to LRMs and Streaks. How dare people have to pay attention to what is going on. Why dont we just make the game how you want it to be so you can be happy. Frankly, they will cater to you like they have in everything else because people who are happy say nothing, and haters will always hate.

[Cato Phoenix]

Viper69, on 05 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

My atlas takes multiple mechs to counter it. So a electronic warfare mech should as well. They are sacrificing tonnage on their team to nullify enemy tonnage through electronic warfare, instead of brute force.

Unless, of course, it is the now pervasive Atlas with ECM.

[Sevaradan]

Cato Phoenix, on 05 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Unless, of course, it is the now pervasive Atlas with ECM.

its not like the D-DC was unpopular before, my units been running lots of em long before the ECM patch

[Epathus]

Purlana, on 05 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Yes, a missle boat can easily kill other mechs with only it's lasers!

Oh wait, no it can't....

Ah ah ah, I chose my words carefully and you sir, did not (see definition of F***tard as you may have already qualified). I said

Epathus, on 05 December 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

fend off a 35 ton mech with something almost twice its weight...especially since your turning speed, torso twist, and medium laser count...is about the same as mine.

Nowhere did I say "other (and thus ANY) mech" If your Cat is defenseless against my Raven because a weapon took away your ability to core me at 800m then you have three options; fix your build, quit the game, que que on the forums and continue playing. I've had to deal with teleporting jenners and streak/lrm cats, adapting and tweaking as I go. Does it suck, sometimes. Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

Now if PGI could ignore the LRM fetishers and focus on PPCs...

[Bear44]

haruko, on 05 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

I love how you can tell it's just the missile babbies whining.

To be honest I've barely even noticed when anyone is carrying ECM.

Why? Because I've always used weapons that require aim.

The only difference between this patch and the last one for me is that now:
a. Sometimes I can't take a look at the enemy paper doll to see where to focus fire anymore, not that big of a deal.
b. I don't dread launching into pub matches and seeing nothing but heavy mechs on my team knowing we're about to get utterly ***** by no skill streakers and LRM boats.

I mean seriously, have you ever spectated pubs? Half of them don't even lock on, or press R, ever.
So why should ECM affect them? Oh right, it doesn't because they don't use auto aim weapons.

Listen buddy, I'm gonna tell you the same thing you, and all your streak friends have been telling us for a long time now:

ECM ONLY HAS SHORT RANGE! JUST OUTRUN IT! IT'S NOT HARD! JUST FOCUS FIRE ON THE ECM MECHS! ITS EASY! JUST USE TEAM WORK! IF AN ECM MECH GETS NEAR YOU YOU DESERVE TO DIE! JUST GET ON C3 AND FIND SOME PEOPLE TO PLAY WITH! THIS IS A TEAM BASED GAME!

The game is the funnest it's been since closed beta right now, and let me tell you, Battletech has, and always will be, about direct face to face brawling combat.

Deal with it.

this is the best post of this entire thread thus far.

[batesman]

To the OP - ECM is already fixed - it may need to be tweaked, but it has fixed the game. After playing for two weeks, I noticed that there were very few tactics involved in this game beyond a bunch of LRM boats lobbing stuff at you all day or streakers latching on and riding you like a cheap suit. God help you if you actually came out from behind a rock to engage anything. Furthermore, you couldn't close the distance to the LRM boats, who were all nestled snugly in, high up on their perches raining down hot lead while sipping a mocha-latte and listening to Neil Diamond...

Well guess what? Now you have to use, strategy. It's simple. Adapt or die. You either have someone protecting your precious missile boat (like you ought to anyway), adapt your LRM use by, oh I don't know, putting on a TAG, or free firing them, OR you fade off into memory.

Any time a change comes out that dethrones the dominant build of the day, those who have become dependent on some aspect of that design will complain that it's "unfair" or "too powerful" or "unbalanced". You know why? Because you've become dependent on it. It's not unbalanced, it's only unbalanced for the way you play.

The ECM forces new strategy. In PUGs, teams are now working more as teams. The medium weight class mechs are now viable again because of how the battle now flows at closer ranges and lights are more valuable spotters than ever because you need to get a visual. LRM boats can STILL rack up great damage AND the ECM encourages the use of other measures like TAG and team targeting to remove the ECM holder or counter holder. I love the change. I hope it is tweaked to improve the design, but I can actually play the game now. Now teams have to think tactically, and I don't have to worry as much about people using LRMs and streaks as a crutch.

Yes, gone are your days of suntanning while lobbing missile after missile Now it appears that you'll have to earn those kills.


Why not have a look over here at some Cat pilots that know what's up?

http://mwomercs.com/...wrong-with-ecm/

Edited by batesman, 05 December 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[Purlana]

Epathus, on 05 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Ah ah ah, I chose my words carefully and you sir, did not (see definition of F***tard as you may have already qualified). I said


Nowhere did I say "other (and thus ANY) mech" If your Cat is defenseless against my Raven because a weapon took away your ability to core me at 800m then you have three options; fix your build, quit the game, que que on the forums and continue playing. I've had to deal with teleporting jenners and streak/lrm cats, adapting and tweaking as I go. Does it suck, sometimes. Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

Now if PGI could ignore the LRM fetishers and focus on PPCs...

Or I can just wait until PGI invents a device that makes me immune to lasers.

Lasers take no skill, real pilots use AC/20s.

QQ laser boats. QQ

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[Viper69]

Cato Phoenix, on 05 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Unless, of course, it is the now pervasive Atlas with ECM.

My Atlas does not have ECM, however I move with mechs that do and dont rely on my targeting computer to fire.

[Strelitzia]

The problem is that players are thrust into random matchups after choosing their mech and loadout. If players could switch between loadouts based on team mates before the games starts (after being matched) things would be much more balanced even without actually changing numbers.

So players are first matched on weight class and then they can choose specific loadouts after getting to talk to and see their team.

Edited by Strelitzia, 05 December 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[Epathus]

Purlana, on 05 December 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Or I can just wait until PGI invents a device that makes me immune to lasers.

Lasers take no skill, real pilots use AC/20s.

QQ laser boats. QQ

They did, its called a Jenner...

And thats funny you mention it, I sometimes ran with an AC/20 on my Raven. It would be the ONLY weapon I had but it was 35 tons of fun. "You know, shock the glutes, mix it up a bit."

Ooooo, deliciously stupid idea, ECM and AC/20 on a Raven...excellent...

[Codejack]

batesman, on 05 December 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

.
.
.

The ECM forces new strategy...

HAHAHAHAHA! That's the funniest thing that's been posted all day. Yea, "Everyone stay next to the ECM mech and rush cap!" is so much better....

[Purlana]

Codejack, on 05 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHA! That's the funniest thing that's been posted all day. Yea, "Everyone stay next to the ECM mech and rush cap!" is so much better....

Everyone stay grouped up!

^Exactly the same strategy as before. Adding ECM really didn't add a new strategy.

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[xDark]

This is why you bring backup weapons. So far, heat has (somewhat) prevented laser boating, weight and ammo have prevented ballistic boating, and now we have ECM to prevent missile boating. There is nothing wrong with this at all.

[LordSkippy]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Or, and stay with me here, you put on four medium lasers and 2 LRM 15's with artemis.

Also there's a non tech item that completely negates laser damage - we call it a 'hill' and you can stand behind it and fire LRMs right over it

That's great in theory, but doesn't actually work. If you are close enough to use the hill as effective cover, then the flight path of the missiles will just send them into the side of that hill. If you are far enough away to get them to fly over, your flanks are exposed to fire by your target's teammates. While, with ECM, you don't need to worry about having your flank exposed to missiles systems. You just need to make sure you have more ECM equipped Mechs. Kind of hard for fire support Mechs to bring extra hills.

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Holy crap, how many LRM boats are 8 person teams facing? FOUR Mechs, an entire lance/half a team, using variants solely to block missiles?

Time to nerf LRM's to the GROUND.

With ECM, you've nerfed LRMs back to the stone age. They don't need anymore punishment.

[Mavairo]

ECM wouldn't be as much of an ''issue'' if people fielding lrm boats or streak boats, would actually field SRMs (not SSRMs.. straight up SRM) along with their weapon loadout.

Or if founder cats would actually do something you know not completely ******** like taking 2 LRM20s and expecting 2 MLs to be enough to defend themselves with.

I have to wonder about the OP and other Founder lrm20 cats. Just what the bloody hell do you do when a Jenner comes up to shank your ***? Other than Die Horribly that is. Especially since apparently your teams don't believe in giving your mechs any support?

I mentioned previously a loadout  (actually 2) that are quite good at getting lights, and zipper mediums to at least think twice about sticking in a furball with you. Those 2 loadouts do a decent job deterring Jenners, which are the best slashing attackers in the game hands down.

Imagine what they do to the rather tall, slower Raven. Does the phrase "I made a new luv hole" mean anything to you?

As far as the streak 2 boaters go. Frankly I couldn't be bothered to have any sympathy for you. Sorry, you should have thought of a possible brawling counter to emerge in the metagame before you loaded up on a cheap one trick pony build.

Edited by Mavairo, 05 December 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[TANTE EMMA]

I really loved the basketball comparison, I really had to laugh hard. You ever heard of "double d" ? yes, this is the situation, when another player helps with the defense on a certain player.... two players defending against ONE ??? IMPOSSIBLE !!!

ECM is ok, it is not godmode(We used it once or twice since patch, but our unit is known for using direct fire weaponry anyways).

...and yes, Alaric and Brian are level 10+ A.I.'s

Adapt or die. Nuff said.