253 replies to this topic

[Bguk]

TwoFaced, on 05 December 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

I for one have noticeds in the public matches teams of ecm vs teams of trials, now tell me how is this fair. At least put ecm on trial mech and for god sake fix the heat issues on trials.

Totally agree with this part. I figured they would put at least one trial mech with ECM on it.

[Mavairo]

Trial mechs with ECM. Yeah I was kind of shocked not to see the ECM Raven on there.

Mind boggling really.

[TwoFaced]

Actually I have to disagree, ecm made it more of single player game, a brawlfest at 100M or less.

Before ecm, brawls occurred, but now they are every match, toe to toe, no missle or long range support, big mechs owning battlefield every match. I see a few lights, but mostly assualts in past 2 days of playing.

I think it actually killed team play, other than everyone hey stay next to ecm, oh wait, everyone has ecm, well except trial mechs in which are for some reaon all on 1 team for the most part.

[Critical Fumble]

The invisibility cloak is not the issue as far as I'm concerned, that much is legitimate. The jamming mechanic is what gets to me. And not even that missiles can't lock while you're jammed, but that there's no way to share targets. If it were limited somehow, jamming only one mech per ECM, or if it allowed some indication of what your allies were aiming for, it wouldn't be so bad. Its effectively impossible to focus fire while jamlocked, there are no chat macros or pings yet, text chat is slow, and I'm not sure that even VOIP would help all that much on mechs that can vanish entirely unless you have 360 targeting.

Also, I'd love to see a video of TAG causing a high speed ECM mech to die.

And OP, site=location, sight=see

[Bguk]

Critical Fumble, on 05 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

The invisibility cloak is not the issue as far as I'm concerned, that much is legitimate. The jamming mechanic is what gets to me. And not even that missiles can't lock while you're jammed, but that there's no way to share targets. If it were limited somehow, jamming only one mech per ECM, or if it allowed some indication of what your allies were aiming for, it wouldn't be so bad. Its effectively impossible to focus fire while jamlocked, there are no chat macros or pings yet, text chat is slow, and I'm not sure that even VOIP would help all that much on mechs that can vanish entirely unless you have 360 targeting.

Also, I'd love to see a video of TAG causing a high speed ECM mech to die.

And OP, site=location, sight=see

A friendly ECM can counter an enemy ECM. Toggle it with 'j' by default. "But they have one more than our team!!111111!!!!1!!" Then use a different tactic to take em down.

[Chrohno]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

To completely negate a 65 ton Catapult or other missile boat, all a 35 ton ECM equipped raven needs to do is anklebite the opposing mech.

Period. A shot never has to be fired.

It breaks balance. The only counter is to stack support on your LRMs, or not take LRMS, which pulls off from the main body. Not a feasible option.

ECM has value, but by leaving Radar broken in it's pre-ecm state, it's given more value. ECMs will need an adjustment in their current state, or Radar will need to work more like it's real world component and allow for more than just 'LOS' tactical display.

I see at least 3 glaring problems with your conclusion here.

1.) Lets assume we are speaking about an 8v8 pre-made situation. With the current matchmaking setup, if my team takes 1 light, then your team MUST have 1 light mech to match up. Now since ECM is quite valuable, any team worth their weight will drop at least 1 ECM equipped mech (Most likely being a Commando or Raven). If our team sends our ECM off to harass your teams missile boats, then we have left our support open to the exact same tactic, thereby negating the problem you have proposed. Not only that, but now our valuable ECM equipped light has just put himself behind enemy lines, on his own, without any support. For any competent team, that is a guaranteed kill. All the LRM boat has to do is cry wolf.

2.) Again, assuming this is an 8v8 pre-made situation. A competent team is NEVER going to leave their long range support alone and undefended. There are few instances that I can think of where it would be a good tactical decision to leave one or two long range support mechs without any backup.

3.) Your team could stick your ECM with your supports, and he can work to counter any ECM threats that engage.

TL:DR-
In a competent 8v8 match, the issue you bring up is not an issue.

[Orzorn]

After doing 8v8 multiple times versus AKA last night, I can say that LRMs are still very powerful if used properly. Their 4 LRM 15 with Artemis HURT very badly. Hurt so much that they could kill some of our mechs (And in one case, some of their own! ) in a single salvo.

The key was that they dumb fired them at us in choke points, and used TAG otherwise to attack us.

However, I can say that ECM is probably a lot more powerful in PUB play, as players won't have the level of coordination that can be achieved with a merc corp on TS3.

[Zarcuthra]

Ever thought it might not be a good idea to run a mech that carries solely lrms into battle WITHOUT being able to rely on your teammates? You don't have medium lasers to defend yourself with under 180m? You aren't near your team? What the hell are you doing then?

Edited by Zarcuthra, 05 December 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

Aquilus, on 05 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

If only there was some kind of Short Range Missiles that could be fired without requiring a lock. PGI, get on it!

We're on it

I would also like to say that, as a player who defaults to 'support' actions, a single Jenner/Cicada can pretty much ruin any Raven that 'walks up' to a Catapults day.

[Zarcuthra]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

We're on it

Excellent! See...PGI is watching.....be wary

Edited by Zarcuthra, 05 December 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[Walk]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let me put this a different way.

You play basketball. In the past, if you wanted to shoot the ball, someone would have to put effort in to try and block you.

Now, Nike has released a new shoe that all a player has to do is stand by you to completely disable your ability to shoot the ball. He doesn't have to block you. He doesn't have to even be sneaky. He just needs to stand by you. That's it. And now you can't shoot the ball.

Oh, his shoes go faster than yours, so you can't run away from his AoE ball shooting nerf either.


That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

Sounds like you need to be a team player, bro.

[AnnoyingCat]

I don't really get it...

[Sevaradan]

omg they added something new and we ALL have to play a bit differently your not special (well maybe special, like you know... ) I cant call matches the same way I would last week I don't have the same situational awareness and you cant blindly spam ssrms/lrms.

Edited by Sevaradan, 05 December 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Chrohno, on 05 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

I see at least 3 glaring problems with your conclusion here.

1.) Lets assume we are speaking about an 8v8 pre-made situation. With the current matchmaking setup, if my team takes 1 light, then your team MUST have 1 light mech to match up. Now since ECM is quite valuable, any team worth their weight will drop at least 1 ECM equipped mech (Most likely being a Commando or Raven). If our team sends our ECM off to harass your teams missile boats, then we have left our support open to the exact same tactic, thereby negating the problem you have proposed. Not only that, but now our valuable ECM equipped light has just put himself behind enemy lines, on his own, without any support. For any competent team, that is a guaranteed kill. All the LRM boat has to do is cry wolf.

This is all wrong. 8v8 isn't class based. An entire team of cataphracts (I saw one, they might have had an ecm cicada though) can vs whatever they get matched against.

Quote

However, I can say that ECM is probably a lot more powerful in PUB play, as players won't have the level of coordination that can be achieved with a merc corp on TS3.

I disagree. As ECM requires at least the basic levels of teamwork to function properly in PUGs there are always plenty of targets for LRM fire. Those Atlas D-DCs rambo solo through the cave with no support whatsoever, and Ravens think they can solo entire teams.

[Dr Killinger]

Either shoot him with those backup weapons you have (you have them, right?) or ask that hunchback standing next to you to PARK AN AUTOCANNON ROUND IN THE RAVEN'S FACE.

[Viper69]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

We're on it

I would also like to say that, as a player who defaults to 'support' actions, a single Jenner/Cicada can pretty much ruin any Raven that 'walks up' to a Catapults day.

But but the OP thinks peeling off one or two of your mechs to deal with said pest is the wrong strategy. We need a firce field generator for our previous "i win" mechs. That should work.

[Crey Rivers]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Didn't even read any of this, did you.

This has nothing to do with being out flanked. Instead, they have given Ravens an ez button to negate cats without any effort.

so LRMs weren't the easy button for weeks and weeks? esp after Artemis came out...such a shame someone came out with a counter with no aiming skill required to negate a weapon with no aiming skill required...

[Chrohno]

hammerreborn, on 05 December 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

This is all wrong. 8v8 isn't class based. An entire team of cataphracts (I saw one, they might have had an ecm cicada though) can vs whatever they get matched against.

I've never seen this happen. Have always seen an even spread of classes in a match.

[MayGay]

have someone ECCM and kill it? wouldn't it kill you anyway even without ECCM? where are the other 7 members of your team, you should be with them not off in the void LRMspamming. run to the nearest laserback or other lightkiller?

personally I tried that a few times and couldn't even get close, either got shot to bits, couldn't get through the LRMspam, or was drivin off by another ECM equipped light

if it's that big a deal and you really really want to go lone wolf LRMspam, there is an atlas that has ECM and enough firepower and armour to make any ECM light think twice about the attempt

Edited by James Griffin, 05 December 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Dukov Nook]

Viper69, on 05 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

But but the OP thinks peeling off one or two of your mechs to deal with said pest is the wrong strategy. We need a firce field generator for our previous "i win" mechs. That should work.

If you are going to speak for me, at least use what I say and not interject your own words as my thoughts.

I don't need a 'shield'. I suggest a balance to a mechanic that I feel is broken. That appears to have negatively affected your sensibilities. That result, however, is not of my doing and is all you.

James Griffin, on 05 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Shoot it with LRMs when it's closing? have someone ECCM and kill it? wouldn't it kill you anyway even without ECCM? where are the other 7 members of your team, you should be with them not off in the void LRMspamming. run to the nearest laserback or other lightkiller?

I love these kind of stupid generalizations.

James Griffin, on 05 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

personally I tried that a few times and couldn't even get close, either got shot to bits, couldn't get through the LRMspam, or was drivin off by another ECM equipped light

if it's that big a deal and you really really want to go lone wolf LRMspam, there is an atlas that has ECM and enough firepower and armour to make any ECM light think twice about the attempt

There were an amazing amount of mech pilots last night that could.

I'll give you a thought, though. Next time you see me in a drop, take notice of my 'lone wolf spamming' and get back to me.

Edited by Dukov Nook, 05 December 2012 - 09:53 AM.