44 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeach, on 13 May 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Are you also limiting yourself on firing weapons EVERY 10 seconds only?

I even roll dice every time before I shoot just to make sure my body-part-hit distribution is random

Edited by Prosperity Park, 13 May 2012 - 08:55 AM.

[Mike Silva]

I didn't realize there was any hate.

[NovaJaguar]

My take on it is MechWarrior 3's mechlab basicaly made every mech into an omni mech because every location could hold any type of weapon as long as it had enough slots. And MechWarrior 4's mech lab limited you to they type of weapon system in that location and the allowable stress the structure could take. Just my 2 creds.

[Kargush]

Mason West, on 13 May 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

MechAssault anyone?

Pheonixwolf, on 13 May 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Blasphemy!!! die heretic!

Is this the point where I admit that if it hadn't been for MechAssault, BT would have been a passing phase for me instead of a on-off hobby...?

I honestly didn't mind it, but then, that was my first experience of non-TT BattleTech.

[Zakatak]

I think MWO has it right.

It has a "hardpoint" system like MW4, but you can buy different variants so you have more options (like Hunchback vs Swayback). Also, there is consideration concerning criticals.

[Atlai]

Pheonixwolf, on 13 May 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Blasphemy!!! die heretic!

You cant kill me! not with all this glowing green health bars everywhere how could i ever die?

[Odanan]

I don't hate MW4's Mechlab because of the slot system: it's because they simply didn't respect the mechs' and weapons' configurations.

Though I played a lot of MW4, it passes the impression that the developers didn't know (and didn't care for) the Battletech Universe.

[Yeach]

Odanan, on 13 May 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

I don't hate MW4's Mechlab because of the slot system: it's because they simply didn't respect the mechs' and weapons' configurations.

Though I played a lot of MW4, it passes the impression that the developers didn't know (and didn't care for) the Battletech Universe.

They were part of the group that designed the first mechcommander game.

[Deathz Jester]

The Hardpoints system of MW:O works.

MW:O Mechlab Footage


The hardpoints system of MW4 blew chunks. Microsoft arbitrarily saying that this section of this mech can only hold a ballistic weapon 2 slots big is bogus. What if i wanted a laser in the section? What if I wanted a larger ballistic weapon?

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 13 May 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[Kargush]

I remember when I first played MW4: Mercs. I went through many mechs, and always grumbled a little that I didn't have an omni mech yet. And finally, I managed to salvage an omni...

...only to discover it wasn't actually an omni mech, it had the same hardpoints as every other mech in the game.

I still ended up playing the game to end, and still do every now and then.

I can't say I hate the MW4 mechlab, but it did (and still does) disappoint.

Edited by kargush, 13 May 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[Belisarius1]

People didn't like it because they wanted to be able to add whatever they felt like adding, even when it was stupid or broken.

[Corbon Zackery]

The Orignal rules for the FASA board game Mechlab lets you put weapons, endo, FF Equipment were ever you want. So someone like me who likes the total freedom to customize my mech is a little disapointed. We don't hate the hardpoints but at the sametime I not going to buy a Hunchback because you can only put lasers on the arms and can only use one torso to mount a autocannon.

It leads to selective targeting because you know the right arm has AC/10, or LT has a AC 20. So you aim for those points you can gimp a mech.

http://remlab.source...mlab30/mech.lab

This is a perfect example of how a real the mech lab should be set up.

Its not like I'm going to not play the game over this minor issue.

But I'm not going to spend 4,000,000 C-bills for some mech that has C----p hardpoints. I going to pick a mech that gives me what I want for a mech.

Its also a money sink it looks like were starting with 50,000,000 CCbills so lets say I want the Hunchback with a AC/20. I shell out 4,000,000 c-bills but I also like the LRM Hunchback I can't just swap out the weapons since there is no missle hardpoints looks like I have to spend 4,000,000 ccbill. for the LRM Hunch. looks like you have 6 slots for mechs now you have 4 because you have two versions of the Hunch in your mechbay.

But dont worry for 20,000,000 c-bills you can get 2 more mechbay slots You see were this is going these hardpoints create a large blackhole that your money is going to sink into. Thats how these free to play games work. Rather than shelling out a monthly fee you keep swipping the charge card until you have had enough, or don't have any money Sure your going ccbills in missions you might spend 40,000,000 c-bills run 6 games and get 10,000,000 back. Why so you have to spend US money to get CC-bills.

In the end its all econmics and how much US dollars we can suck out of you.

Thanks

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 13 May 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[John Talbert]

mechwarrior 4 was build by lazy people fat on the success of the previous game(s).

[Mechteric]

The problem with MW4 wasn't the customization, it was the weapons. They made certain weapons too powerful and/or other weapons too underpowered. For instance the medium laser (or anything under it) was so under powered they weren't worth taking. It ended up being how many ERLL, ERPPC, or Gauss you could fit. Except of course the city maps, in which you'd just load on as many LBX20 as possible. Rinse and repeat, boring!

[Eradicator]

theres a sense of freedom in mw2 and mw3 mechlab where you can add *almost* anything you wanted onto a chassis. mw4 limited it significantly and to some fans it felt dumbed down, even if it was for the greater good (limiting boating for example). When you deck out a fresh design from scratch in mw2 or mw3 it felt like a masterpiece because you had maximum control over your config. In mw4 you feel constrained and that feeling of *my design/my creation* is kind of lost. The upside of hardpoints is that it makes mechs more dedicated and notorious for specific roles/functions. That is sort of lost in mw2 and mw3 because it reduced the value of a chassis to whatever mech had the smallest cockpit etc.

[krazbiskit]

so with the mw4/mw o style of mech lab how in the bloody hell do i change my internal structure to endo steel or how do i change to an xl engine? i can have advanced weapons on a old design but i cant have advanced parts within the chassis. I know its varient depandant but cmon really why be so limiting. I can compromise on the whole ballistic = ballistic, beam = beam thing because its weird to see a laser beam fire out of a missile rack, but cmon on daddy needs his weight savers for the big toys

[Gremlich Johns]

I think everybodty should just suck it up and appreciate that they have a MW game to play. Get used to a NEW game!! Oh, and....

Get over yourselves, you are just another cipher whose POV means nothing to anybody else but yourselves.

games evolve and if other FTP games have shown us nothing else, it is evolution. Give it time and your whiney requests will probably be granted.

[MacabreDerek]

krazbiskit, on 13 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

so with the mw4/mw o style of mech lab how in the bloody hell do i change my internal structure to endo steel or how do i change to an xl engine? i can have advanced weapons on a old design but i cant have advanced parts within the chassis. I know its varient depandant but cmon really why be so limiting. I can compromise on the whole ballistic = ballistic, beam = beam thing because its weird to see a laser beam fire out of a missile rack, but cmon on daddy needs his weight savers for the big toys

The biggest reason that comes off the top of my head is game balance. With too much customization, it's a matter of time before a single configuration rules an entire role. For the sake of restricting players to making small changes that create a better mech and playstyle for themselves, rather than building a mech from scratch which has almost always broke the game competitively,. Being a F2P MMO, you're dependent on a vibrant and competitive multiplayer. If the game offers no restrictions, it will be difficult to balance the tools avalible to players. With the hard-point system, there are easier methods of balancing and allowing PGI to create the competitive multiplayer experience that is in demand.

As for how endo-steel, XL Engines, and other customizations will occur will probably be on a chassis by chassis basis.

[Corbon Zackery]

If I can't add a XL, endo or FF you can just scrap that mech as not going to buy it.

That is one thing I did like about subscipt based games you had more control over changes and modification to a game. Being a member of Star Trek I can tell you how much the fans made a differance in turing a s---t game into something you might play for free once and a while.

Thanks

[Mike Silva]

Corbon Zackery, on 13 May 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

If I can't add a XL, endo or FF you can just scrap that mech as not going to buy it.

That is one thing I did like about subscipt based games you had more control over changes and modification to a game. Being a member of Star Trek I can tell you how much the fans made a differance in turing a s---t game into something you might play for free once and a while.

Thanks

I have to wonder if they're going to handle this by offering different, more expensive variants for sale with those pieces in place. Because an XL engine or Endo Steel are extremely drastic modifications.