3036 replies to this topic

[FrostCollar]

Aethon, on 04 March 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

It would also lack the small target profile of the Raven, as well as its borked hitboxes. Also, that tiny amount of extra armor the Cicada carries would not mean much, if anything, in that fight.

The hitboxes are a classic example of bad coding, so that should hopefully be eliminated at some point.
The point isn't that the hypothetical ECM missile Cicada would be a clear upgrade to the 3L. The point is that it would be close enough and a medium to boot that the number of ECM missile mechs could increase dramatically. It would definitely have made the 3M obsolete, too. Why take 1 ballistic slot when you can have 2 missile ones? I like the 3M, but all my effective builds don't even use ballistics.

BigJim, on 04 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Again, opposite of P2W, it's pay for choice - what this game should be about.

It'd add a choice the game doesn't need. The 3L's power is an outlier. The game needs to reduce that power relative to other mechs, and the right way to do that is not to add more disproportinately effective mechs.

Edited by FrostCollar, 04 March 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 04 March 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

It goes 133.7 KPH, I can't be the only one that noticed that.


Also, I'm glad to see people sad a MC only mech WON'T have both ECM + missile hardpoints. As for the pay to loose argument, it's a hero mech, they're meant to have cool skins and a c-bill boost. Not provide a significant in game advantage

SO the engine max is a 330 instead of a 340. That means it'll top out at 147.1 kph instead of 151.2 kph. Is 5 kph really that big of a deal? That actually gives you an additional ton to work with for other things. Oh noz!!!

[Sean von Steinike]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 04 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

If you think ECM is P2W then you have no skills to counter it nor have the brain function to understand.

And if you think it ECM required to be a good mech, then you have no skills or brain function either.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Trauglodyte, on 04 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

SO the engine max is a 330 instead of a 340. That means it'll top out at 147.1 kph instead of 151.2 kph. Is 5 kph really that big of a deal? That actually gives you an additional ton to work with for other things. Oh noz!!!

I think you totally missed the point of my comment on it's speed.

Or you're trolling, can't really tell.

[Bagheera]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 04 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

If you think ECM is P2W then you have no skills to counter it nor have the brain function to understand.

So why then do you refuse to purchase a mech without it, a clear implication of its inferiority due to its lacking ECM? There's already an ECM Cicada, and the hero version is the only missile Cicada. That gives it a sort of appeal, I guess.

Not making the p2w argument here, because I don't buy into it, but you are making a fundamental statement about ECM that is counter to your post here:

Eric darkstar Marr, on 04 March 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Agred no ECM no buy

So, which is it?

[Marduk Moreau]

Norris J Packard, on 04 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

The Hero Mech isn't important, what is important is the Test Grounds which got a whole one line blurb.

Because big news comes in small packages Norris.

[Cache]

Congrats on your non-purchase. I don't buy costumes for my dog. Generally I don't feel the need to share that non-info with anyone.

[BigJim]

FrostCollar, on 04 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

The 3L's power is an outlier. The game needs to reduce that power relative to other mechs, and the right way to do that is not to add more disproportinately effective mechs.

Now that I agree with - I'd happily see streaks go back to how they were pre open-beta, but until that time (if ever, which I'm beginning to doubt), why is only the Raven allowed to be a realistic choice for a scout mech?

And still - why all the P2W QQ? (not from you I hasten to add, the above post is pretty sensible imo)

[Tahribator]

If it had ECM, it would beat Raven as the most unbalanced thing in this game. It would literally be the BEST mech available.

[Herr Vorragend]

I am missing the jumpjets... :/

[Broceratops]

i bought the wang because at the time it had the biggest cbill bonus and i didnt have any centurions at the time

bought the ilya cuz its OP for dual gauss and i didn't have any cataphracts at the time.

bought the hero dragons because they're slightly better than regular dragons, but i had to think twice. ended up buying it primarily because i didn't have any dragons at the time.

all the hero mechs after that i didn't buy because they suck more than cbill variants and for existing mechs I already have 3 of, there's no motivation to buy a hero version.

pgi, here's a marketing idea. instead of making a hero version of a mech months and months after the mech is out and people like me already have 3 mastered versions of it, make the hero version of a mech that has YET TO COME OUT. like a hero jagermech. then i'd probably buy it even if it wasn't the best variant, because then at the very least i have a headstart in getting 1/3 variants mastered. as the way things are i don't see myself paying 10-30 bucks for a mech that is worse than what i already have in my mechbay and i don't need it to unlock masteries.

Edited by Broceratops, 04 March 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[BigJim]

Bro, you're doing it wrong - You're only allowed to buy Hero-mechs because they're more useless than every other mech in the game - surely someone of your experience should know that by now?

I know it's in the patchnotes somewhere, that they're not allowed to be competitive, or be on a par with other mechs of the same role..

Edited by BigJim, 04 March 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Aethon]

FrostCollar, on 04 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

The hitboxes are a classic example of bad coding, so that should hopefully be eliminated at some point.
The point isn't that the hypothetical ECM missile Cicada would be a clear upgrade to the 3L. The point is that it would be close enough and a medium to boot that the number of ECM missile mechs could increase dramatically. It would definitely have made the 3M obsolete, too. Why take 1 ballistic slot when you can have 2 missile ones? I like the 3M, but all my effective builds don't even use ballistics.


It'd add a choice the game doesn't need. The 3L's power is an outlier. The game needs to reduce that power relative to other mechs, and the right way to do that is not to add more disproportinately effective mechs.

The problem here is not that the X-5 would overperform if it had ECM. Rather, the 3M underperforms, whether or not it has ECM.

This, to me, suggests that the 3M needs help, not that the X-5 would be OP, especially since the X-5 would still be outperformed by other mechs in the role at which it would perform most strongly.

Also, the Raven is still a much smaller target; that is not something I expect to be adjusted.

Edited by Aethon, 04 March 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Bagheera, on 04 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

So why then do you refuse to purchase a mech without it, a clear implication of its inferiority due to its lacking ECM? There's already an ECM Cicada, and the hero version is the only missile Cicada. That gives it a sort of appeal, I guess.

Not making the p2w argument here, because I don't buy into it, but you are making a fundamental statement about ECM that is counter to your post here:




So, which is it?

Because it is just so bland compared to the others my personal preference would have been JJ on it or ECM, ECM could have made a nice Raven hunter killer, but now even with the missiles it is just so so can it be a viable mech in competitions odds are not when you have Trebs Huchies and Cents that can fill the non ecm role.

[Multitallented]

OMG I LOVE THIS MUSIC!! can't wait for them to release that.

Also, I predict the next hero mech will be a Raven, but the Stalker is also a possibility

[Trauglodyte]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 04 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I think you totally missed the point of my comment on it's speed.

Or you're trolling, can't really tell.

I'm not trolling so I guess I totally missed what you were implying. Then again, I breezed through this pretty quick like so boo on me.

[Wolf Ender]

won't be buying one. why would i take this hero when my ECM capable 3m is sitting next to it in the garage. I know my team is going to benefit more from that ECM than they will from me being able to have SRMs.

The X-5 sounded like fun, but too much opportunity cost without ECM

I think its funny how people cry soooooooooo much about the raven 3L, yet they are happy to not have an additional option to counter it.

[Wintersdark]

I'd have bought it on release day if it had JJ's. Without... Meh. It's a good Cicada, and if I were a Cicada fan I'd be all over it (4E2M is a good loadout!) but without the JJ's... It's just another Cicada.

I'll buy it if I ever get into Cicada's, but as it is, it's not nifty enough to warrant a skilling up yet another mech line (I'm already busy with several others).

[Kyone Akashi]

Wolf Ender, on 04 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

I think its funny how people cry soooooooooo much about the raven 3L, yet they are happy to not have an additional option to counter it.

Maybe because an ECM-Streacada would not "counter" only 3L's but all other 'Mechs as well, and indeed replace the 3L as the most dreaded 'Mech for at least a sizable portion of the playerbase.

In Australia, cane toads were meant to "counter" the cane beetle, and look what happened.

BigJim, on 04 March 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Why is that a bad thing?
You want an ECM/missile scout for free? Take the Raven or Commando.
What a bit of extra choice? There's also a Cicada if you want it, but you'll have to pay for that one.

I do not think this is a question of choice. More of possible advantages and a threat of superiority.

It is possible that the Cicada's larger profile renders it easier to shoot at, but at the same time it can carry more weapons and has more tonnage for armor and/or missile ammunition, or laser heat sinks. I'm not sure of the eventual outcome. Do you really want to risk it?

The Guardian-suite is still limited to a very small number of variants. If it would be available to everyone, this would be a non-issue, but you have to see that an item that is as exclusive as ECM is a very controversial perk to sell for MC.
Ultimately, with ECM/Streaks working as they do now, I think that the game does not need a single 'Mech with this combination more than it already has, regardless of whether it can be purchased for c-bills or MC.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 04 March 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Nick Drezary]

Oh come on! It could return Cicadas on the battlefield, we could have Big, fat, easy to hit raven 3L. Yes, it would give some pain in the *** for the lights, but hey, lights were unstoppable for the long time enough (yes, net code fix nerfed them but newer punished). It's time to kick their *****, not this time likely (Heavy mech pilot, that enjoy shooting fat cicadas with PPC)