44 replies to this topic

[Pr8Dator]

What you think?

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I voted for the Selectable Ammo option, but I really want to see both that and air-burst canister rounds rather than grapeshot for the cluster ammo.

[The Cheese]

Make it cheaper and tighten the cluster at range.

[Wolf Ender]

I think it needs to do more damage (maybe even more than 10) up close, but make the rate of damage mitigated by range on a much harsher scale than other weapons

[Pr8Dator]

It seems like the damage in this game is exactly as canon but are armor values and crit system canon too?

[Budor]

I think its in a pretty good spot atm. allows for some fast semi-aimed pwnge in brawls. 2x lbx, 2x(3x) srm6, 4x (2x+ECM)mlas AS7-D(D-DC) is effective and very enjoyable to play.

Edited by Budor, 05 December 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[Mavairo]

I think it could use abit more damage at point blank ranges (150 meters or less) but have it do less damage at longer ranges.

Maybe 12 at point blank, 10 at 300, and down from there on every 150 meters.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Buff & add alternative ammo such as cluster (Flak instead of this crap scatter shot) and standard AC10 rounds (solid shot)

[Scryed]

it needs to have the ammo from TT which doesn't do spread till like 50 meters from the target

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Making it a uniform spread from 0-effective range, about the width of an atlas' side torso, would simulate the flak effect that it is supposed to have. It would be a quick fix that wouldn't require too much effort from the devs, so there is at least some chance of getting that kind of fix in the foreseeable future.

Selectable rounds and the air-burst canister would be ideal of course, but I figured I'd throw out an idea that we could maybe get sooner rather than later.

[Aethon]

I haven't actually used them in ages, but I'm pretty sure the only anti-mech munitions available for autocannons were slug, cluster, precision, armour-piercing, caseless, and incendiary, with LBX autocannon only being capable of using slug and cluster. The other specialty rounds, I'm pretty sure, were only for the old-school standard AC's, and maybe for the LAC's that came out later on.

Also, I'm pretty sure flak, flechettes, and things like that were anti-aircraft and anti-infantry rounds (I recall an AC/20 firing a flechette round into a cluster of infantry being described as 'instant gumbo, family-size').

Still, the LBX10 is missing its utility...although, without specialty AC rounds, it would effectively make the AC/10 obsolete, since it's one ton lighter and could do exactly the same thing (and more).

[Kai Lae]

The LBX is SUPPOSED to make an AC 10 obsolete. It's a higher tech level item, that's what obsolete means. This is why house davion later developed specialized rounds for standard (AC10,20 etc) autocannons in an attempt to narrow the gap of performance between the LBX, RAC, and UAC autocannons and standard ones.

The fact that the LBX is not considered to be superior in nearly all fashions to the AC10 is a sign that things are not right currently in autocannon land.

[Soulscour]

The Cheese, on 05 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Make it cheaper and tighten the cluster at range.

Why you complain about the price? Can't grind 800,000 cbills?

[Sybreed]

I'm torn on this one. Either PGI gives us selectable ammo, or they buff the damage/tighten the spread by 50%/make it crit more often.

[Pr8Dator]

Sybreed, on 05 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I'm torn on this one. Either PGI gives us selectable ammo, or they buff the damage/tighten the spread by 50%/make it crit more often.

OR BOTH!

[Karyudo ds]

Personally I think selectable ammo would solve a lot, but the LBX in this game doesn't feel like an LBX to me, it feels like a shotgun, which is what the LBX is not.

Quote

The cluster round fragments in flight, peppering the target with submunitions. The cannon is able to punch through an opponent's armor with standard rounds, and then fire cluster rounds to increase the chance of scoring a critical hit on a target's internal systems. The LB-X's flak-like 'shotgun' effect also makes it an effective and deadly weapon against AeroSpace Fighters, VTOLs and Infantry.^[4][5][6]

PGI shouldn't even have to tinker with the spread if they fragmented a specific distance from the target rather then out of the barrel. Which I think it's been done this way in other MW games as well but a shotgun versus a walking tank is just silly because that means you need to get close to it. I guess they don't have to adhere to Battletech's version of it, but it made more sense to work more like flak.

[Pr8Dator]

Karyudo ds, on 05 December 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Personally I think selectable ammo would solve a lot, but the LBX in this game doesn't feel like an LBX to me, it feels like a shotgun, which is what the LBX is not.



PGI shouldn't even have to tinker with the spread if they fragmented a specific distance from the target rather then out of the barrel. Which I think it's been done this way in other MW games as well but a shotgun versus a walking tank is just silly because that means you need to get close to it. I guess they don't have to adhere to Battletech's version of it, but it made more sense to work more like flak.

In canon, LBX are flaks that open up something like 80m from the muzzle and EXPLODES... so we talking explosive submunitions here... you are right, PGI completely misunderstood how LBX works..

[The Cheese]

The Cheese, on 05 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Make it cheaper and tighten the cluster at range.

Edit: My 3 x LBX Muromets is my favourite mech right now...

[LaserAngel]

I want slugs or maybe I could live with a tighter cluster at range.

[Strum Wealh]

mwhighlander, on 05 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Buff & add alternative ammo such as cluster (Flak instead of this crap scatter shot) and standard AC10 rounds (solid shot)

Scryed, on 05 December 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

it needs to have the ammo from TT which doesn't do spread till like 50 meters from the target

Karyudo ds, on 05 December 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Personally I think selectable ammo would solve a lot, but the LBX in this game doesn't feel like an LBX to me, it feels like a shotgun, which is what the LBX is not.

PGI shouldn't even have to tinker with the spread if they fragmented a specific distance from the target rather then out of the barrel. Which I think it's been done this way in other MW games as well but a shotgun versus a walking tank is just silly because that means you need to get close to it. I guess they don't have to adhere to Battletech's version of it, but it made more sense to work more like flak.

LB-X ACs were always described as "BattleMech-scale shotguns", with the cluster munitions being consistently represented as shotshell rounds (which fragment immediately upon leaving the weapon's barrel) rather than proximity-detonation "shrapnel shell" rounds.

LB-X ACs are also specifically described as smoothbore weapons (TechManual, pg. 207; "These materials, coupled with a smooth-bore, multi-munition feed mechanism, make the LB more expensive than standard autocannons."), a descriptor that is used in such a way as to indicate contrast with other AC types... and one which is significant specifically because rifled barrels are generally unsuitable for firing shotshells, an issue that would not exist with shrapnel shells.

Additionally, the CBT Master Rules (Revised Edition, #10984) specifically states (on page 132), "The LB-X autocannon can fire cluster munitions, which act like an anti-BattleMech shotgun in combat. When fired, the ammunition fragments into several smaller sub-munitions."
The description indicates that the cluster munitions fragment "when fired", as opposed to "when the shell is within X meters of the target", further supporting the "cluster rounds as shotshells" LB-X model.

So: TT/canon LB-X ammo was always intended to be a shotshell, rather than a shrapnel shell.

Sybreed, on 05 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I'm torn on this one. Either PGI gives us selectable ammo, or they buff the damage/tighten the spread by 50%/make it crit more often.

It was confirmed in Ask the Devs 10 that the LB-X ACs will eventually have the ability to fire both slug and cluster rounds, and stated in Ask the Devs 17 that there will be alternate ammunition sources at a later point in MWO's development.

Quote

Q: WIll we be able to switch between cluster ammo and slugs with LB-X autocannons? [DerMaulwurf]
A: We plan to have this functionality eventually, but currently it is not available. Who doesn't want lots of different Ammo types, right? [GARTH]

Quote

Q: Will alternate ammunition like Inferno missiles be available for missile systems and autocannons? [Solis Obscuri]
A: I believe this is the third time I'll have answered this, but yes, there will be alternate ammunition sources at some point, though they'll be later in development. [Garth]

I voted for the selectable ammo in this poll, and it is coming...

Edited by Strum Wealh, 05 December 2012 - 10:31 PM.