73 replies to this topic

[Mistwolf]

I always envisioned the FWL as the south-east of Europe. Like the Balkans / Greece / Turkey kind of region, with many different cultures and states in kind of the same area.

I never really though of Canada, but as a proud Canadian and since the FWL has always been my favorite faction, I won't argue

[MythicKhan]

My personal thought is that it holds some similarities to the British Commonwealth of 1649-1660. That's politically of course, rather than socially (the FWL is hardly a puritan nation!)

However:

-Powerful military... check, New Model Army and the Navy that won the First Anglo Dutch War
-Single military figure, the Captain-General.... check, Cromwell as Lord Protector
-Regionalism.... check, Scotland and Ireland during the period
-Parliament with a variety of representative systems.... check
-Complete lack of a House of Lords, even if it technically exists..... check
-Factionalism.... check, Levellers, Fifth Monarchists, Republicans, Army-men, Royalists etc.
-Civil War.... CHECK CHECK CHECK!!!!!

If I've missed any other similarities, I'll add them later

EDIT: Of course, then again, perhaps its simply a natural thing that all of us Leaguers keep thinking of different analogues?

Edited by MythicKhan, 15 May 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Gun Bear]

The closets real life counterparts to the FWL in history that I know of would be the the Dutch Circa 16-18th century. They had an elected government and a hereditary head of state, they were a superpower with global influence; and, just like House Marik they were prolific traders.

Oh yes... and just like the Dutch they seem to lose any war against another major power.

[Major Bill Curtis]

Arctic Fox, on 13 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

The Free Worlds League is almost literally the Holy Roman Empire in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.

+1 to this, with various shades of other things.

[Sal Trebov]

In a lot of ways, the FWL doesn't have an exact real world amalgamation. But I like to think it would have been close to the USA under the Articles of Confederation. The only difference is a slightly more robust central government, but even so, you still have some component states refusing to commit troops to engagements, threatening to split off, etc.

[Kairaku]

ice trey, on 13 May 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to classify the FWL with any "Futuristic-version-of-existing-culture" trope, which therefore also is part of why it suffers in popularity as far as the Inner Sphere goes. You've got some Prussia, some Spain, some India, and a whole lot of everything else. It makes it unique in the inner sphere as a strong unity of multiple cultures without one that overrides all the others, but at the same time, that's also it's biggest shortcoming. People want something that you can describe in a sentence while sounding cool...

I could imagine the folks that get into the Battletech universe because they love the Politicking that goes on would like the FWL, and perhaps because of the neat toys they get, but in general, the FWL tends to not stand out to new players.

I have to agree with Ice trey. I believe it is quite an amalgamation of a number of cultures and as such it is not quite like any counterpart that I have studied.

For me it is telling that FWL uniquely includes the following factions when they travel into space:

• Arab nations
  
• British Colonial nations
  
• Dutch Commonwealth
  
• Baltic nations

The factionalism seen in post 4th succession war FWL is similar to several modern day and historic nations.

Modern day Iran is currently very similar for example with a Nominated head of state who only has support from the council of mullahs at their discretion...depending on the situation they will either bring the support of their followers or not as their own internal politics decree. In turn these mullahs only remain in power by the will of their supporters and advancing the ideals to the most outspoken or dominant members of their own factions.

Separation on racial lines is very similar to what is seen in the baltic states and the internecine fighting definitely puts me into mind of the many instances where Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Romania, Transylvania and Poland have all looked to dominate populaces of their neighbours.

The way each region wants to assert their independence while still looking to the central Marik figure for the historic confidence of an empire definitely reminds me of Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The social state in most regions of the FWL can be easily related to for anyone from those countries and the military doctrine and training that is standard throughout FWL also hints towards how the colonial militaries are currently trained.

The one thing that ties all these disparate ideologies together is trade. Because of their geographic locations each of the afore mentioned factions have always been intensely focused on trading and I think that is the glue that holds the FWL together.

[Waladil]

I was under the impression that the FWL was quite Ancient Greek, with a stronger central government.
Largely independent city-states planets.
Internal civil warring between Athens and Sparta Andurian and everyone else.
Quick to band together when the Persians Capellans invade.
An emphasis on trade, internal and external

It seems to have a lot of similarities, but differences, too. So more of a "strong influence" than "Greece in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaAAACE."

[Ito Ogami]

More like the Byzantine Empire than anything else.

[DireWolf307]

When my friend first got me in to Battletech so many ages ago, he put it simply "Marik = Britian, Steiner = Germany, Davion = USA, Liao = China (St. Ives = Taiwan), Kurita = Japan, Rasalhauge = Vikings".

Pretty close

Edited by DireWolf307, 29 May 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[iheartporkchops]

yea i would say canada because we are a free country! (canada ftw) and a pretty good military forces.

[Rajen]

The Austro-Hungarian Empire:

• multicultural and multiethnic empire of states;
  
• intrigue, racism, espionage, religious fanaticism;
  
• regional "relatives" vying for power;
  
• assassinations, revolutions, civil unrest;
  
• 1 word...powderkeg!

[Kenyon Burguess]

i guess i'll break out some quotes here from sarna.

- It is multicultural, with strong European, Oriental and Indian influences. It also traditionally offered great autonomy to its component regions.

-The government of the Free Worlds League is often misinterpreted as a representative democracy by superficial observation. In fact, the members of the parliament are representatives of the individual planets.

-Constitutionally, the Captain-General has only the power to oversee military matters when so appointed by Parliament. The Captain-General originally held a one-year term that could be renewed indefinitely.

however, along came starleague and...


-The formation of the Star League made the Captain-General a permanent position. Because of an agreement with House Cameron, the Marik Captain-General was recognized as the Council Lord from the Free Worlds League.^[5] Following the fall of the Star League, Parliament passed Resolution 288, which gave the Captain-General broad power "for the duration of the crisis". These powers included the ability to convene and dismiss Parliament, supreme authority over the Free Worlds League Military, the right to choose one's successor, and the authority to nationalize industries associated with military production.^[6][4]
Two laws passed in the 3030s gave the Captain-General unprecedented power. The Internal Emergency Act of 3030 was passed in response to the Andurien Secession. The law stripped all of the provinces except the Duchy of Oriente and Principality of Regulus of their autonomy, subjecting them to the rule of the Captain-General.^[7] The Addendum to the Incorporation, passed in 3037 at the insistence of Captain-General Thomas Marik, removed the ability of Parliament to use finances as a measure of checking the Captain-General's power and gave him veto power over every law passed by Parliament.

which makes the FWL, a military run dictatorship

Edited by Geist Null, 02 June 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Haakon Valravn]

So the FWL is...

FASCIST ITALY IN SPAAACE!?

[BeforeLife]

Zakatak, on 13 May 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Canada.

Multiculturalism, check.
Mid-right Wing idealogies, check.
Mostly caucasians, check.
Democracy, check.
Fighting between provincials and feds, check.
Brutal politics, check.
Not involved in many wars, check.
Free healthcare, check.
Non-threatening flag, check.

FWL is Canada in space.

Couldent have said it better myself lol

Mike Silva, on 13 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Marik's military is too powerful to be Canada.

Just you wait We are getting some stealth subs up and running as we speak.

Zakatak, on 13 May 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Woah woah woah!

We have 120 fighter jets that are only 30 years old! That is... about as much as Belgium.



Although we arguably have the best trained snipers on the planet, as well as the best trained "standard" infantry besides Isreal. And our tanks are top-notch Leaopard 2A6's, which is pretty much the best you can get as of now. Besides that? Ya, we are lacking.

Ya dont we hold the longest comfermed sniper kill? If not we did for a while. The bullet was in the air for like 4 seconds lol

Edited by BeforeLife, 02 June 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[Haakon Valravn]

Nope. Current record is held by a Brit. The Canadian shooter did his with a Big Mac (MacMillan Tac-50) in 12.7mm NATO/50 BMG. He has said that he probably couldn't repeat it if he had to, IIRC (could have been a different Canadian, as it passed from one to another within a month). Shot was 2430 meters. Current record was set with an L115A3 rifle in 338 Lapua... With three shots at nearly 2475 meters, with two of the shots killing a Taliban machine gun crew and the third destroying the machine gun.

(The record before that was set in 1967 at 2286 meters by the inimitable Carlos Hathcock. Although he set his record with an M2, which is both impressive because of the poor sights and cheating because it's a machine gun.)

Edited by Haakon Valravn, 02 June 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[Mindstormer]

Arctic Fox, on 13 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

The Free Worlds League is almost literally the Holy Roman Empire in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.

Agreed... Although the title, Holy Roman Empire, usually refers to the ancient german countries of the overall Roman Empire. I think its more closely related to the Roman Empire and Canada combined. If that makes any sense at all...

[Major Bill Curtis]

Mindstormer, on 03 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Agreed... Although the title, Holy Roman Empire, usually refers to the ancient german countries of the overall Roman Empire. I think its more closely related to the Roman Empire and Canada combined. If that makes any sense at all...

Imperial Rome didn't conquer German areas in any depth or extent; the HRE is completely unrelated to the Roman Empire, and never refers to it in any way, being the post-Carolingian political body in the area of German-speaking peoples from the early tenth century until the early nineteenth, so you might have your signals crossed a bit there (Romanesque architecture also has nothing to do with ancient or classical Rome, but people often mistake it for similar reasons).

The HRE is certainly a good start for the FWL when looking for models, since they both have a central authority whose real power is questionable and questioned, but is official and mandates foreign policy through an "elector," who is actually a monarch. The Balkan states under the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or frankly the Ottomans, also works. Medieval Italy certainly has its place as a model for the FWL too, given the very loose "unification" of its city states under the Pope and its own struggles with the HRE question.

I'll say "no" to Classical Greece, since there is no permanent central political authority uniting the Greek city states (remember that the Delian League is an ad hoc body), but only a cultural and linguistic association, most clearly visible in panhellenic phenomena like Homer and the Olympic Games; (the Pope is the political authority that works in this manner for Medieval Italy, and the FWL is both a political body and much more varied culturally than the Greeks, so they simply don't work as a model: forget the absurd nationalism you've seen in "300" and "Troy" --- it doesn't exist in Classical Greece --- ethnocentrism, yes, but nationalism as we think it hasn't been invented yet, and there's an awful lot of nationalism in the Inner Sphere).

I'll say "no" to Rome, both as an empire and as a republic (but I won't say "no" to the Eastern Empire in Constantinople, whom we call the "Byzantines"). The major reason here being that the situation in the Inner Sphere is too finely balanced, whereas Rome knew no true equals for better than 400 years --- the FWL is not in any sort of similar political situation.

To some extent, Rome in the east, the Byzantine Empire, with its intrigues and impotence, is suitable, but it lacks what Italy and the HRE have: truly independent provinces that are difficult to bring to heel. The Turks and Arabs are also far too powerful compared to the Byzantines to make any analogy with the Capellans. The HRE is wonderfully impotent and disorganized, yet holds together for nearly a thousand years, so we may not fully need the Byzantines to understand the FWL. They're useful, perhaps, nonetheless, for their palace politics, but their inability to get the state pointed in a direction and keep it there had more to do with their poor economy and necessarily defensive posture than with anything else.

I'll say "no" to the US too: let's leave it up to the Davions to be the "world of tomorrow" Americans --- stiff-necked imperialists, where everyone is "middle-class" and they're always the "good" guys (yeah, right). Further, Federalism in the post-Civil War US is not nearly strong enough a divisive force to be anything like what goes on between factions in the FWL. In terms of arms dealing, the FWL is more like the French than the Americans.

The British Empire? Maybe a little, but the FWL is geographically (OK "astrographically") contiguous, no matter how far out Andurien is, it's not Australia or India: in the FWL the "colonies" can threaten the body of the "empire" directly, and they have the power to do so. Early Modern and Medieval Britain? Just too small: rich and powerful as England certainly was, the field is just to narrow---certainly closer to the FWL than the US by any measure, but the HRE is still a better comparison for the period overall. The strength of Scotland and Wales in opposition to the English is useful, however, in illustrating the very real dangers some of the FWL provinces pose to the central authority.

The EU? No. The members of the EU are too complicit, too willing, and gain too much through membership to be like the FWL. No one need go to war to secede from the EU, and the central authority is far too weak politically when compared to the member states; the EU is an economic association, not a centralized political authority: it's a "buyers' club." This is not what the FWL is.

Just my opinion, of course - Cheers.

Edited by Major Bill Curtis, 05 June 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Seabear]

The FWL is very close to the USA in the preCivil War era. - minus the slavery issue. Many of the same issuses that played out then are present in the current FWL, especialyy the issue of state/province v the central government even down to the issues of secession.

[Randalf Yorgen]

The Free Worlds League is........ Going to win!

[rilianv]

The free worlds league is really made up of a handful of large states with parliamentary style government that elects its leaders. After the marik civil war, they turned into a martial parliament and a false thomas marik became the permanent leader up until the beginning of the jihad.

I guess the FWL would be a combination of American states and British government