186 replies to this topic

[PurpleNinja]

It should work more like the Command Console.

[StalaggtIKE]

I was hoping Paul would have done the right thing and actually balanced ECM. However, it remains more or less the same. In that case BAP must be buffed exponentially if we want to maintain any semblance of information warfare.

[skullman86]

It doesn't necessarily have to counter ECM, it just has to do more than it does now.

-Increase the viewing and targeting range vs ECM mechs to something around 400m (currently 200m regardless if it's equipped or not), even if that means the user is the only one able to see it

-More target data, or limit the data we get by default (loadouts and variant info) to make it worthwhile

-Double the range for sensing shutdown mechs


...anything

Edited by skullman86, 04 April 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[DocBach]

Thontor, on 04 April 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I still think BAP needs the ability to detect mechs that are behind cover. around the corner, or on the other side of that building or hill.. within a limited range of course.

Also when they implement passive radar, it could be useful in detecting mechs using passive radar from further away... barring they aren't under ECM cover.. but if they were, why would they be using passive radar

Pretty much, in the Battletech universe 1000 years into the future, Beagle Active Probe is the active radar. Like you said Beagle should see through cover and concealment, as well as give a complete readout on enemy 'Mechs. ECM is suppose to do two things; one, it counters advanced technology like Beagle Active Probe, secondly it obscures standard sensors (though not completely defeat them or generate a stealth field like we have in MWO) -- the obscuring takes the form of hiding information from enemy scanners such as chassis/variant type, weapons loadout, and damage readout. Enemies in ECM should still be target-able but not identifiable.

There is a third mode ECM is suppose to have in which it floods enemy radar with false signatures to make it harder to locate the real enemy and makes it harder to gain weapons locks, though not impossible called Ghost Target mode. In this mode, the ECM 'Mech is vulnerable to the systems it usually blocks such as Narc and Beagle; however while running in this mode a 'Mech using Beagle can counter the sensor confusion caused by Ghost Target mode.

Imagine that, a counter for ECM that is a passive system the same weight, rather than a skill based weapon system that weighs several tons more and generates crazy heat that isn't completely reliable at doing its job of locking out ECM!

Edited by DocBach, 04 April 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Sephlock]

Yes please.

[New Breed]

I use a BAP on my founders atlas.. to absorb a crit hit in my AC20 slot. That's how I treat it and how pathetic it is lol.

[Strum Wealh]

Certainly, Beagle should do more. But, how much more can it do in the current environment?

Some have argued that 360-degree tracking of all units should be among the capabilities/characteristics of the Beagle Active Probe.

As a more comprehensive listing of what Beagle "should" be able to do...

• Detect any hidden 'Mech (or Combat Vehicle, or Battle Armor) - provided said unit was within 120 meters [4 hexes], would have had LOS while within range (that is, not behind a building or hill, or not more than 90 [3 hexes] meters of light woods or 60 meters [2 hexes] of heavy (or mixed) woods between the probe and its target), and was not underwater (Total Warfare, pgs. 100 and 129 and 303)
  
• Have its sensor enhancing effects negated by ECM jamming (Total Warfare, pg. 134)
  
• Alert the user to the presence of ECM jamming (Total Warfare, pg. 134)
  
• Cost 200,000 c-bills (TechManual, pg. 291)
  
• Weigh 1.5 tons and consume 2 critical spaces (TechManual, pg. 342)
  
• Be rendered useless in a region characterized by natural "electromagnetic interference" ("EMI"), distinct from ECM (Tactical Operations, pg. 55)
  
• Aid in target acquisition and aiming against an opponent in the probe's range [to the point of reducing the to-hit requirements] (Tactical Operations, pg. 99)
  
• Gather [additional] information about a target's status and condition (Tactical Operations, pg. 99 and 219)
  
• Potentially reveal the presence of minefields (Tactical Operations, pg. 99 and 210)
  
• Increase the likelihood of distinguishing a Ghost Target from an actual target, and vice versa (Tactical Operations, pg. 99 and 102)
  
• Expand overall detection range to 1080 meters [36 hexes] under optimal conditions (Tactical Operations, pg. 222)
  
• Provide a small bonus against Guardian ECM sensor jamming [Guardian gets only a +4 bonus against Beagle, in contrast to Guardian's +5 bonus vs standard 'Mech sensors - representing an ~83% chance of being jammed for Beagle, versus a ~92% chance of being jammed for unaugmented standard sensors] (Tactical Operations, pg. 223)
  
• Monitor a distant area (up to 2 kilometers [67 hexes] away) through up to 2 Remote Sensors (Tactical Operations, pgs. 224 and 375)
  
• Fails completely (by explicit rule) to detect opponents mounting a Null Signature System [permanently LosTech] (Tactical Operations, pg. 336)
  
• Must be within 30 meters [the adjacent hex] to detect a vehicle using a stealth chute (Tactical Operations, pg. 349)
  
• Fails completely (by explicit rule) to detect opponents mounting a Void Signature System [available in 3070] (Tactical Operations, pg. 349)
  
• Can be homed in on by Anti-Radiation Missiles [available to Clans in 3057, available to IS in 3066] (Tactical Operations, pg. 368)

For comparison, what Beagle in MWO actually does...

• Weighs 1.5 tons, consumes 2 critical spaces, and has 10 hitpoints
  
• Costs 400,000 c-bills
  
• 25% increased sensor range (to 1000 meters, from 800 meters)
  
• 25% decreased "target level acquisition time" (the time it takes to collect detailed target information ('Mech variant and loadout, current damage status and distribution, etc))
  
• Allows targeting of unpowered 'Mechs within 120m

While Beagle would certainly be more popular if it allowed for 360-degree tracking, many of its capabilities are dependent on items or environmental factors that simply haven't (yet?) been implemented (e.g. no minefields or ghost targets to detect, no EMI or ARAD missiles to worry about, etc), and some of them (most notably, some 360-degree target tracking) are implemented as modules rather than being integrated into Beagle itself...