164 replies to this topic

[Mr Mantis]

Yay, I no longer am cannon fodder scout to your streak cat! switch to srm and aim if you can, but don't loose all your lrms, i need them when i spot for you.

[multiplesanta34]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

Mount a TAG and/or build a more balanced mech that has some close in defenses. A few ML or SRMs paired with your streaks or LRMs will work well.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Mr Mantis, on 06 December 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

Yay, I no longer am cannon fodder scout to your streak cat! switch to srm and aim if you can, but don't loose all your lrms, i need them when i spot for you.

And here is the reality: Due to your lagshield there's often no way in the galaxy to hit you at all. Streaks would've done it, but they're out of the game.

But so are LRMs. If there's a chance I might be unable to use them I wont use them at all. Since we cannot pick our games / rules for the server we can never know how much ECM will be there. Better be safe then sorry, so no LRM support for you. Too bad.

[Blark]

Think about the children light mechs!
If you exclude lights, ecm is fine, if not.. well then ecm is not really fun or tactical, unless you like easy wins of course.

I've written it before, but If you think streaks got less important with the introduction with ecm your delusional (or playing in matches with no lights).

Only thing ecm changed is that only the team with more ecm gets to use streaks now.

Protip: If you want ultra-easy wins now, use a group of 2-4 Raven3L with 2ssrm, ecm, 2sl, 1mpl, xl295 (146.8kph aka warp-speed )
The enemy will have at least 2-4 lights and if the enemy team has less lights with ecm then you, I will be incredibly hard to lose for you (as if you have to be a either very unlucky or a complete moron in order to lose).

Have been dominating every game with 2 Ravens last evening, except for 2 games where we had 3 more non ecm lights while the enemy had more ecm lights the we.
For all those who thought the Jenner was bad, now you have the Raven and if it has ecm superiority no streaks can touch it.

I feel bad for using the new easy mode.

btw: don't get me wrong though, the real problem is not ecm: With proper netcode, knockdowns and streaks that also target arms/legs there would be no problem imo.

[Ezrekiel]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

...cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

Many possibilities for you :

1) play that C4 Catapult with Streaks or LRMs and carry your own TAG.

2) keep playing the A1 and find a teammate to TAG for you - after all, if you cant find any target without ECM coverage, then your opponents tream is doing their job teamwork wise, you need teamwork in your own team to counter it.

3) get some direct fire weapons that require a bit of aiming skill, ignore ECM and just kill your enemies

4) stay a scrub and whine on the forums

Your choice really

[Mr Mantis]

GODzillaGSPB, on 06 December 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

And here is the reality: Due to your lagshield there's often no way in the galaxy to hit you at all. Streaks would've done it, but they're out of the game.

But so are LRMs. If there's a chance I might be unable to use them I wont use them at all. Since we cannot pick our games / rules for the server we can never know how much ECM will be there. Better be safe then sorry, so no LRM support for you. Too bad.

That's okay. i completely agree about the lag-shield, I guess i look into the future and hope for optimization. Once the game is optimized and there is much reduced lag-shield (here is for hoping) than ECM will be balanced. So stop whining about ECM and find the real problem. GET THE CODE UP TO CODE!

[wanderer]

Stormwolf, on 06 December 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Why are people complaining about ECM? They didn't even include the Ghost Targets option for it, now that would have been fun to watch.

Instead, they simply rendered it impossible to actually target something outside of 200m with anything other than visuals. Not quite ghost targeting mode, but it definitely made long range fire rougher and precision aim considerably more difficult.

I can remember points in closed beta where AMS might as well been a requirement for the number of people mounting it.

ECM is better, much better. The only thing keeping more people from mounting it is the limited number of chassis it's available to right now- which, incidentally was also the case with AMS when it first came out. I fully expect the devs to follow along the same road with ECM pods, since the inevitable "X 'Mech can protect itself vs missiles, why can't I?" is going to show up followed by ECM becoming a wider selection. As it stands, 4 or so 'Mechs with ECM are enough to blank out the field for missile fire in most cases.

[Omigir]

GODzillaGSPB, on 06 December 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

And here is the reality: Due to your lagshield there's often no way in the galaxy to hit you at all. Streaks would've done it, but they're out of the game.

But so are LRMs. If there's a chance I might be unable to use them I wont use them at all. Since we cannot pick our games / rules for the server we can never know how much ECM will be there. Better be safe then sorry, so no LRM support for you. Too bad.

Net coding fixes lag shields, not SSRMs.

[Plavis]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

LRM is indirect long range artillery, just like in the real world u need a spotter to give u coordinates.

]ECM is a good addition to the game, makes it more stratigic, this coming from me i own all cat varriants. ECM did not nerf missile boat at all in my case it made us even more deadly.
running whit my frieds using A1 alpha kitty doing 90 dps per volly whit 1.54 heat efficency at 80kph we dont even care about ecm, we have the speed and the manuvrability to go around, outflan, or come up behind enemy formation or simply just rush in jumpjets own and lay havock,
running 4 alpha kitty charging ussaly our standar match last 4 minuts max.
I run my C4 same way but whit 4 launchers and 2 pulse lasers. dps 72

for people complaining about streak cats and now are happy about ecm thinking it nurfed the streak cats got it wrong, for me and my team made us even deadlier.

[color=#959595]read this [/color]http://mwomercs.com/...rd/page__st__20

Edited by Plavis, 06 December 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[wanderer]

Ezrekiel, on 06 December 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

3) get some direct fire weapons that require a bit of aiming skill, ignore ECM and just kill your enemies

Funny. If you have to TAG targets to use LRMs with ECM, doesn't that effectively turn LRMs into direct fire weaponry as well- only you have to literally keep the beam on target for seconds at a time to hit your target since LRMs move so slowly? Remember, the second your TAG beam is interrupted, the lock is gone and has to be completely re-established...by which point the shot misses, as 450m or less means the missiles will have grounded themselves. Remember, TAG doesn't last any appreciable time if the beam goes off target.

That is, you have to TAG the target, get lock, fire, and keep TAG on the target for the entire travel time. It's off for even a moment? Miss.

Like if someone else runs in front of you or your target breaks LOS for even a fraction of a second. Or your target is moving so fast you can't accurately track them thanks to lag shielding- you know, like 3/4 of the ECM-equipped 'Mechs right now. Little things like that. Seriously, have you TRIED to do this? It's effectively a guide-by-wire weapon. There's a reason guide-by-wire weapons are usually "stand still while using", and self-TAG works the same way.

We usually call a 'Mech standing still at 450m or less "target practice" in MWO.

Edited by wanderer, 06 December 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[Moonsavage]

As much as I despise SSRM cats, ECM seems to make SSRM completely useless now - even if you are standing within 90m of them. Surely that's not right?

[tvih]

I don't really play the game currently because of a number of other issues, but ECM... pfft, it'd basically only affect I think ONE of my mechs out of the 9 or so that I have - namely my 3xSSRM2 Commando. The rest don't really rely on lock-on to be effective. Sure, the AS7-D(F) and -K have the LRM20, but that's an easy enough swap.

[prox]

So far the power level of ECM feels like a lazy excuse to avoid finding the right balance for streaks and LRMs. The consequence is that in typical brawling situations, the team with roughly equal tonnage and less/no ECM loses. This means: you can't identify targets, you cant prioritize targets, you can't call out targets (especially in those nice situations where several identical looking D-DC gang up on a team) and you can't effectifly manage a team with no information on the minimap.

Unlike in CoD, where a targets falls after I pellet it with a SMG for half a second, a close quarter encounter in MW:O requires pilots to coordinate their fire on the same weak spot(s) on the same mechs and eventually change targets rapidly. They way ECM currently works, I NEED ECM on my team to change brawls from taking a random chance to actual tactical maneuvers. And whenever an optional piece of equipment is so powerful that it becomes mandatory, you know balancing is off.

I use weapons that require aiming so I don't care about the streakpult's qq'ing, but I enjoy close quarter combat and they way ECM works, a fair and enjoyable fight is almost impossible.

[Flapdrol]

The team with more ECM gets to call targets and use guided rockets, that's a massive advantage, almost a mandatory item unless you run a 100% short range brawling team.

[Omigir]

Flapdrol, on 06 December 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

The team with more ECM gets to call targets and use guided rockets, that's a massive advantage, almost a mandatory item unless you run a 100% short range brawling team.

Or employ ECM hunters. Mechs designed to go out and get mechs with ECM

Like.. the Jenner 7-F...

[ei8ht]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

So it must have been you we bumped into, the neutered little kitty cat backing into a dark corner desperately trying to hide.

I tried to look the other way and let you run, but could not muster up a single ounce of pity for you, only remembering all those times you remorselessly fired barrage after barrage of streaks into my helpless, blinded and shake disorientated lancemates.

I admit I took immense pleasure in very slowly killing you, forgoing all my other weapons and using only streaks, one missile at a time. I could feel your rage and hate building up, at being completely and hopelessly impotent. It took a long time before you finally died.

Revenge is sweet.

[Blark]

Moonsavage, on 06 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

As much as I despise SSRM cats, ECM seems to make SSRM completely useless now - even if you are standing within 90m of them. Surely that's not right?

Simple solution:

Bring more ecm then the enemy, now you can use ssrm and your enemy cannot.
Load up your Raven3L ssrm squad, dominate any light mech (and most others too for that matter).

[Stone Wall]

QuantumButler, on 06 December 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

Yesterday for ***** and giggles I ran a streakcat backed up by my teammates in ECM mechs so they could counter all jamming.

Streakcats are still pretty much harbingers of doom if they partner up with ECM mechs.

yep. I posted a thread recently that said Streakcats aren't dead.

Omigir, on 06 December 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

Or employ ECM hunters. Mechs designed to go out and get mechs with ECM

Like.. the Jenner 7-F...

I do that with my Jenner D I think it is. I don't have ECM but I have more lasers.

[HammerForge]

What I don't get from all the ECM hate, is what is to stop your team from taking out the ECM mechs, then you reign again? Especially if the ECM is protecting from LRM, the mechs need to stay together, so the lights can't be using it's lag shield to the best of their ability. I could be wrong, I currently can't play the game since my home computer can't run it, so I could be missing something, but it would seem to me: LRM boats need to hold fire till you take out a ECM or two, and Streak Boats should be able to get in the fray and use other close in weapons to help take down the ECM mechs. Once that is done, SPAM!!!! Or as they said in 300, "Our arrows will blot out the sun!"

[Bishop Steiner]

No, it isn't, actually.

And here is why:
http://mwomercs.com/...a-big-fat-myth/

Tactics. They are your friend.