164 replies to this topic

[Korobug]

Whether they're overpowered or not will differ highly towards playstyle. They're doing exactly what they said they would do, make an evolving battlefield and make it a TEAM based game... These ECM make teamwork vital, without it, you're going to get steamrolled game after game. It also gives scouts an even more meaningful purpose. I do agree that they're a bit strong, but the devs are headed in the right direction.

EDIT: I as well was not aware of tag going to be buffed, so I guess we'll see, because that has potential to make up for the current strength of ECM, though really, all you need is a good scout with ECM on counter mode...

Edited by Korobug, 06 December 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Learn to use some skill you easy mode bastages, while i Do feel bad for the European players who have to suffer from a server half way around the world, THAT is no one but PGI's fault, i would request you guys have them use some of the founders package $$$$$ to get some more servers in more locations.


Oh, and i am very very VERY pleased that the ECM renders anything with a full ssrm loadout to be ineffective, that is simply awesome and awe inspiring, just hearing the fan boys whine it up is lovely. (how's it feel to have some pay back jack?) Every time your punk arse cracked a grin as you slammed ssrm after ssrm into people who had ZERO chance..well..your gong to get yours now.

Your gauss pults are now jam pults,and your easy mode ssrm boats are all kaput, and that is AWESOME!!! And i simply am gitty like a lil' school girl to know that someday soon, mechs with jump jets will not be able to abuse the x1 JJ for the effect of x5 JJ issues we are currently having. Your mech life's are going to change with every update from here on out.


IT IS A BETA, THING'S ARE STILL BEING ADDED, THE GAME WILL AND HAS CHANGED MULTIPLE TIMES, DO NOT GET COMPHTERBLE WITH ANY PLAY STYLE YET, AND ABOVE ALL...LEARN TO ADAPT AND IMPROVISE ON THE BATTLEFIELD!! THAT'S WHAT A MECH WARRIOR DOES!!!!!



-sighs- Now if only we could get more servers, and better frames per second.

Edited by BaDkaRmA158Th, 06 December 2012 - 08:42 AM.

[RumRunner151]

1) ECM is fine. Learn to play/Learn to teamwork
2) SSRMs still work if you apply #1
3) LRMs still work if you apply #1

[Fugu]

If OP isn't a full on troll I seriously doubt my internet experience.

PS: Streakcats can die in a fire for all I care.

Edited by Fugu, 06 December 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[WarRats]

I think the key if you arent on a coordinated team is to have a balenced build. Have your LRMs but run some lasers or balistics to go with it.

[TheSturgeon]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

Ok. Take off two of your ssrm or lrms. Now put on two srm6. At least that way you can not be completely useless while your team is trying to focus down ecm carriers just so you can do something. Adjust to the meta. Good god. I'm still able to find targets for my ssrm in every match I play.

[Busukaba]

BaDkaRmA158Th, on 06 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

IT IS A BETA, THING'S ARE STILL BEING ADDED, THE GAME WILL AND HAS CHANGED MULTIPLE TIMES, DO NOT GET COMPHTERBLE WITH ANY PLAY STYLE YET, AND ABOVE ALL...LEARN TO ADAPT AND IMPROVISE ON THE BATTLEFIELD!! THAT'S WHAT A MECH WARRIOR DOES!!!!!

It's beta! is no longer a valid excuse. This game really is mainstream because they're setting premium time, forcing you to pay money for Mechs, paint schemes, decorations, etc... While you are correct, this game is still beta, it's ridiculous that so many people feel the need to pay to play this crap.

Korobug, on 06 December 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Whether they're overpowered or not will differ highly towards playstyle. They're doing exactly what they said they would do, make an evolving battlefield and make it a TEAM based game... These ECM make teamwork vital, without it, you're going to get steamrolled game after game. It also gives scouts an even more meaningful purpose. I do agree that they're a bit strong, but the devs are headed in the right direction.

EDIT: I as well was not aware of tag going to be buffed, so I guess we'll see, because that has potential to make up for the current strength of ECM, though really, all you need is a good scout with ECM on counter mode...

This is true. Last night I played 3 games in PUG groups, 2 of which my team had 1 ECM and 1 where we had 0. One of those games we lost having 7 of ours go down and 7 of theirs go down but our remaining guy was in a Raven with TAG and an LRM 20 and ran out of ammo so the remaining bad guy capped us. I died pretty quick to an ECM'ed Commando, but I danced around long enough that the team tore him up so bad he only got off 2 more shots before dying. The other team had 2 more Atlas D-DS ecmed out. They had 3 times the ECM and we still almost won.

Another game we had an ECM Mech who was AFK at our base, so it really was like not having one. Again a close game but we lost losing 7 with the other team losing 6. Then we had a match with 0 ECM. My assumption is that we had a group of 4 and some random people because we crushed the bad guys by going through the tunnel. We won 8-0

Sure it's only 3 games, and they were PUG games (I also played a couple where we got totally stomped), but it does prove that more ECM does not equal an autmoatic win. If your team sticks together and has decent situational awareness, you can defeat the other teams with ECM. TAG is your friend, even now. Not really sure why it needs a boost to 750, but I think that's throwing a bone to LRM pilots who want to sit on a hill away from the battle. There are enough good pilots, even in PUG groups who use direct fire weapons and can look around that it's not a ECM = win. And I think some people are already starting to adapt so I think the community as a whole is moving forward.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

ECM is a broken mechanic because the only counter is more ECM.
And as a mechanic it is so powerful that a team without ECM (or less ECM than their oppoenent) is at a significant disadvantage.

[Busukaba]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 06 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

ECM is a broken mechanic because the only counter is more ECM.
And as a mechanic it is so powerful that a team without ECM (or less ECM than their oppoenent) is at a significant disadvantage.

This is absolutely untrue. Thermal vision as well as just plain old eyeballs can defeat ECM. If you have LRMs, TAG defeats ECM. Teamwork defeats ECM. I don't see the problem. And no, I don't play any Mechs with ECM. I run 2 Commandos, but neither of them can equip it and a Hunchback.

[Raven Starbinder]

Tell me how easy it is to defeat 8 Atlas DC's when they are watching each others backs to prevent anyone from attacking them from behind. You may get half of them at first, but there is still 4 left. After the battle with only 4 of them almost all of your mechs will be very damaged. You will have lost a few mechs also, then the rest of the 4 will finish off your mechs. It is a war of attrition, they will have alot more armor then you will in the end. So tell me again how easy it is to defeat 8 atlas DC's. If you read my previous post, you would have seem I do not heavily rely on SSRM's or LRM's.

Edited by Raven Starbinder, 06 December 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Pierce Rossignol]

I just learned today that for the past two days I've been running my D-DC Atlas with the ECM REVERSED. ("Inflammable means flammable? What a country!")

Then I jumped in my Founder's Atlas with the same loadout minus ECM and took out half a team in the next game, including two Atlases whose pilots apparently thought they were driving big Ravens.

So you anti ECM whiners can, seriously, kiss my ring, which I keep in my back pocket. The existence of ECM -- which is not going away -- changes the game dynamic and makes brawlers superior and makes missile boats vulnerable, highly specialized mechs with specific tactical applications, which is exactly what -- in canon -- they are. ECM makes hiding possible in close terrain and you don't automatically die from missile fire on your way to the fight in open ground. Unless, of course, the missile team -- note the word TEAM -- is outstanding and coordinated. Because there's nothing deadlier than a couple of missile boats set up correctly, using terrain, with hot-rodded scouts laden with electronics packages calling targets.

I'm not remotely sorry to hear that you can't win on your own by left-clicking anymore. That's not how the game is played.

[Shismar]

Only pugging but either ECM or the 8-group mode made my games vastly more successful. And I am driving a Hunchback.

[SpiralRazor]

Mavairo, on 06 December 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

You can blind fire LRMs as if they were Rockets at any target over their minimum range, for starters.
Secondly, there is again TAG to be delivered by others in the furball/mech blob. By the way TAG DOES work, if it's fired outside the bubble, infact it's range is similar to a LL's. Someone else can use tag outside of 180 meters onto a target. and whammo. It's like ECM doesn't work or something then!

There is also nothing really stopping you as a mech from using TAG yourself, and firing from 300 to 450 meters out as direct fire weapons, if no one else is going to carry TAG.

Their risk is greater than yours. But the gains they get are worth every bit of that risk with the added bonus of you not having to soak damage too. Actually the gains are higher than the Risk involved is.

LRMs are Low Risk Weapons. There are weapon systems in the game presently that help LRM guys who can't utilize their weapons due to ECM.

One of those weapon systems is about to actually get a buff. (probably so that it can work inside the bubble)
God forbid, your team actually have to think about it's weapon composition instead of. "hey LRM guy, just spam the button when we get you a target"

Campaigning to nerf ECM, when TAG is about to be buffed is like asking for a third ******. It's completely useless because you have 0 idea of how the coming change is going to affect what we already have.

Hell you have not even adjusted to what we have now fully yet.

And those weapons are much higher Risk weapons to use for the rewards they can potentially give you. Surely you can some how manage to see how, being directly exposed to enemy fire should net you more rewards as a player than a guy sitting 700 meters away throwing zoomy rockets into a furball.

Having TAG work from 750 will do nothing to help the issue...It just shows how ignorant you are of actual TAG usage. A range extension is NOT a huge buff sir.

LRMs are low risk for a reason.... LONG RANGE....do you get that? 400m is NOT long range. LRMS travel incredibly slowly, allowing you more then enough time to get under cover at 800-1000 meters.

Also, mechs specialized in LRMS have virtually no short range defense if they are found out.....Reference the A-1 or the C-1. The standard reply was to mount streaks to return fire on LRM hunting lights...Now with ECM, you cant even do that.

"Surely you can some how manage to see how, being directly exposed to enemy fire should net you more rewards as a player than a guy sitting 700 meters away throwing zoomy rockets into a furball."

Surely you can somehow(one word) manage to see how someone thats utilizing a virtually defenseless mech that has a LONG travel time to target, and also has to account for lock ons and terrain should net you more rewards then a guy at 200 meters going PEW PEW I HIT U WIT MY LAZORS!

Learn to think intelligently is all I have to say to you directly.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 06 December 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[Harmatia]

I guess I have no issues with ECM because, as a Hunchback player, I rarely use lock-on weapons. Lasers and ballistics baby, lasers and ballistics. Although I cannot help but smirk, just a little bit, because of all the laser/ballistic weapons are useless comments I kept reading, because LRM and Streak SRM weapon systems are much more damaging. And I've been on the receiving end of that and know exactly how devastating both the former can be.

This is the other shoe dropping.

Adapt or die, that's the nature of the world. One of the things I absolutely love about this game is the technological advancements and how they force players to rethink what they thought they knew. I have one buddy who has no interest in playing because his Dragon build is no obsolete. Another because he primarily uses LRM's and the ECM addition forces him to play differently. Adapt man. Technology moves forward, new equipment shows up on the battlefield, and you adapt or you die. End of story.

I suppose some people want a more dynamic and challenging game than others.

[Horned Bull]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 06 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

ECM is a broken mechanic because the only counter is more ECM.
And as a mechanic it is so powerful that a team without ECM (or less ECM than their oppoenent) is at a significant disadvantage.

As far as I know direct fire weapons counter ECM even better than more ECM as commandos/ravens are pretty fragile. Let them taste lead and they will go away.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Flash Yoghurt, on 06 December 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Disclaimer: I have never used an LRM or Streakboat.

At the Moment I feel a lot like after the Artemis patch and its borked flightpaths. The game has been reduced to one singular tactic: clump together and stay under the ECM umbrella, everything else has become totally useless.

My favourite build before this patch was a rather unconventional Centurion with an ER Largelaser, two meds, 1 Streak Launcher and an Artemis LRM15. This is what I whould call a balanced build: No boating and able to do damage at all Ranges. In the drops I had after the inclusion of ECM I could fire my SSRMs maybe 5 times in one match and the LRM once or twice, so these weaponsystems have become utterly useless. Before you try to "L2P" me, these drops were with an organized premade...

Too those claiming LRMS take no skill and are an instant win button: They are not, keeping the lock on an moving target a high range with terrain in between can be quite difficult, I have seen countless Salvos (fired by me, my teamates and enemies) miss, hit buildings and loose lock. After the recent nerves the damage of LRMS has been low enough to not instantly destroy everything.
SSRMS are a different matter, but they also only became (now they ae useless) really powerfull if boated. One or Two are just an effiecient anti light weapon as they should be...

my god the ONLY person who understands the difficulty of making lrms effiecient weapons. everyone says it's a click and forget weapon and they probably complain about the damage caused by 20% of the salvo cause the rest hit a building. srm's and ssrms are easy to use especially ssrms cause they don't fire until the hit is garrentied and at close range there's no dodging or flight angles to worry about. LRMs take skill not in fireing but positioning yourself to guarantee homing lasts until it reaches the target and that the turn angle isn't too steep for them to outrun them. to be honest i actually found lrm's too hard to make enough hits to warrent carrying it which is why i'm a laser sniper these days. i just wish more people would have a go with lrm's and realise it's far far away from guaranteeing max damage outputs, unlike ac20 or gauss, not to mention ssrm.

Harmatia, on 06 December 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I guess I have no issues with ECM because, as a Hunchback player, I rarely use lock-on weapons. Lasers and ballistics baby, lasers and ballistics. Although I cannot help but smirk, just a little bit, because of all the laser/ballistic weapons are useless comments I kept reading, because LRM and Streak SRM weapon systems are much more damaging. And I've been on the receiving end of that and know exactly how devastating both the former can be.

This is the other shoe dropping.

Adapt or die, that's the nature of the world. One of the things I absolutely love about this game is the technological advancements and how they force players to rethink what they thought they knew. I have one buddy who has no interest in playing because his Dragon build is no obsolete. Another because he primarily uses LRM's and the ECM addition forces him to play differently. Adapt man. Technology moves forward, new equipment shows up on the battlefield, and you adapt or you die. End of story.

I suppose some people want a more dynamic and challenging game than others.

sounds like a promotion for sameme play to me. everyone conforms to one style makes a boring game.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 06 December 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

SpiralRazor, on 06 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Having TAG work from 750 will do nothing to help the issue...It just shows how ignorant you are of actual TAG usage. A range extension is NOT a huge buff sir.

LRMs are low risk for a reason.... LONG RANGE....do you get that? 400m is NOT long range. LRMS travel incredibly slowly, allowing you more then enough time to get under cover at 800-1000 meters.

Also, mechs specialized in LRMS have virtually no short range defense if they are found out.....Reference the A-1 or the C-1.

Surely you can somehow(one word) manage to see how someone thats utilizing a virtually defenseless mech that has a LONG travel time to target, and also has to account for lock ons and terrain should net you more rewards then a guy at 200 meters going PEW PEW I HIT U WIT MY LAZORS!

Learn to think intelligently is all I have to say to you directly.

that

[Sevaradan]

This argument that ECM is OP ignores the fact that many of the problems are caused by a large population of MWO players, not mechs, weapons or items, but players are gamebreakingly under powered.

[Stone Wall]

I did this today in a Streakcat. The other team had 3 ECM mechs while we had none.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2j3g09x.jpg

[FallenFactol]

ECM is awesome. The game actually feels like Mechwarrior again, not mobile missile artillery warrior. MW has been more about brawling then about missiles. Missiles are support weapons, in tabletop a team with nothing but missiles will lose. Yes missiles have their place and the ECM can use a slight decrease, though I think PGI did the right thing and the game is better for it.

The game isn't horrible because you can't just win now by having 8 missile boats on a team. Now you need a bit of strategy and combined arms. You need someone to go over and disrupt their ECM protection, then you can go back to raining missiles again.... or you could just man up and get some lasers and ACs then brawl it out.