142 replies to this topic

[Walrus Jockey]

Tilon, on 06 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

The problem is that ECM is currently breaking its own rules.

ECM works by broadcasting noise, interrupting electronic communication.

You cannot simultaneously be an a ECM and cloak your position. The two are opposites.

Currently, ECM is stopping communications, somehow HIDING ITS OWN NOISE (a mech with ecm should be EASIER to pick out and target since it is BROADCASTING NOISE) and hiding its own heat signature as well as his friends!

ECM acting as an ECM and a cloak simultaneously laughs in the face of reality and is a joke. There is no reason you should have to use tag from 600 meters because:

A. You are out of its jamming range
B. It is broadcasting noise and giving its position away
C. It still has a heat signature(unless you people actually think ECM hides HEAT)

I know people like it because they hate streaks. Fix streaks, they are op.

We dont need a cloaking device/ECM combo in the game, operating on magic principles.

How is ECM disabling the targeting equipment of mecha outside its range? How is it hiding its own heat SIG? How is it hiding its own NOISE BROADCAST?

An ECM that can hide its own noise broadcast is an impressive trick indeed. If you think it's not out of whack as currently implemented, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I would like to sell you.

Oh, and its broken from a game design standpoint too, because for 1.5 tons, you get an ecm/pseudo cloak combo that renders an entire class of weapons useless.

You'd think they would know how to target a heat sig in the 31st century. What exactly is ecm cloaking, since the mech 800 meters out is not within the jamming bubble?

ECM is not a cloaking device... Check out the links below and you will see how both it was implemented in the original game and in the real world.

www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Countermeasure

Just wait till the Clans come, the Clan ECM is 1 Ton and can could be mounted on nearly anything.

[Corvus Antaka]

One key issue is that LRMS are designed to flush mechs from cover. Hence our calls for mech3 LRMS that hit hard but turn slow.

With ECM, now we have the same situation as before, where everyone hides in cover. But before, at least we could narc/tag & LRM support, thus flushing mechs from cover.

Now, we cant get LRM locks, and we need TAG/NARC to have more range & draw LRMS better so scouts can flank & TAG. We also need BAP to give LRM mechs an ability to lock mechs at 750m even if covered by ECM - but this is more the ECM "Bubble" problem that ECM is shielding the entire 8 man unit, which really was just a bad idea imho.

[Imagine Dragons]

RumRunner151, on 06 December 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

How is that cheating? Its dumb because it would make it hard to sneak around...but cheating? What if they bind TAG to group 3 and put a fishing weight on the 3 key...is that cheating?

FIRMWARE HACKS!

... I think

[Icebound]

RumRunner151, on 06 December 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

How is that cheating? Its dumb because it would make it hard to sneak around...but cheating?

Macros are against the TOS. If they catch on you can be banned.

[Fate 6]

In order to use TAG, your mech has to have energy hardpoints.

My A1 doesn't have energy hardpoints.

[Imagine Dragons]

Fate 6, on 06 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

In order to use TAG, your mech has to have energy hardpoints.

My A1 doesn't have energy hardpoints.

C4 yourself.

[Sevaradan]

XenomorphZZ, on 06 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

C4 yourself.

or find a buddy with an energy slot....

[RumRunner151]

Fate 6, on 06 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

In order to use TAG, your mech has to have energy hardpoints.

My A1 doesn't have energy hardpoints.

Because it has 6 missile hard point. Run a C4 w/ TAG, 4xSSRM and a laser.

Or get a friend who has TAG.

Adapt.

Edit: LOL I was beat to both punches!

Edited by RumRunner151, 06 December 2012 - 11:50 AM.

[Volthorne]

Icebound, on 06 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Macros are against the TOS. If they catch on you can be banned.

Uh, no they're not?

[Walrus Jockey]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 06 December 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

One key issue is that LRMS are designed to flush mechs from cover. Hence our calls for mech3 LRMS that hit hard but turn slow.

With ECM, now we have the same situation as before, where everyone hides in cover. But before, at least we could narc/tag & LRM support, thus flushing mechs from cover.

Now, we cant get LRM locks, and we need TAG/NARC to have more range & draw LRMS better so scouts can flank & TAG. We also need BAP to give LRM mechs an ability to lock mechs at 750m even if covered by ECM - but this is more the ECM "Bubble" problem that ECM is shielding the entire 8 man unit, which really was just a bad idea imho.

Simple strategy and team work...

LRMS Boats, forgoing viable builds for maximum LRM Spamming can no longer afford to just sit back and wait for targets to be fed to them. They will need move with a group, or behind a group.

The new TAG is going to have a longer range, and if the said LRM Boat has one, he can simple TAG his own target, something I personally do a lot. The LRMs can get a lock, although with 25% longer lock on time. Also, you can "blind fire" LRMs directly at the target. If you are in the rear of your lance, you should be able get close enough to hit your target, but still be at enough range for your LRMs to arm.. 400m is the sweet spot, you put the targeting reticle over the mech, fire your LRMs and they swarm to the spot that you manually targeted.

This is also a good place to work from, as you have the direct support of you lighter lance mates to keep light mechs off of you, as well as the option of having another mech like a ATL-D-DC with ECM, cover you and protect you from LRMs.

Strategy + Team Work + Technical and Tactical Proficiency with your chosen mech/build are the keys to winning.

Remember, just because the LRM has 1000m range and can acquire an target lock, doesn't mean that's the only way It can be used. It can be brutal at 300-400m by a pilot using his own TAG system.

[Icebound]

Volthorne, on 06 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Uh, no they're not?

Actually you're right, I just checked and it's not there.

I just thought I remembered the devs bugging out about macros when UAC5s didn't auto-unjam and people were making macros to get an advantage.

[Sevaradan]

Volthorne, on 06 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Uh, no they're not?

this, they are aware of macros and cool with em, they never punished anyone for UAC5 macros back when those DID give a major advantage over non macro users.

[Ace Kaller]

Random, but....the guy said a fishing weight. If you put an actual fishing weight or taped down the key, that's not a macro.

I have to say though, while I was terribly critical of alot of the early developments of this game, recently they have greatly improved. In particular, the way they have introduced BAP and ECM have GREATLY improved the game.

[Sevaradan]

Ace Kaller, on 06 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Random, but....the guy said a fishing weight. If you put an actual fishing weight or taped down the key, that's not a macro.

I have to say though, while I was terribly critical of alot of the early developments of this game, recently they have greatly improved. In particular, the way they have introduced BAP and ECM have GREATLY improved the game.

know ppl who used to use a penny to wedge a key down when AFK farming back in the in the day on DAoC.

[Grits N Gravy]

[Scratx]

Sevaradan, on 06 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

this, they are aware of macros and cool with em, they never punished anyone for UAC5 macros back when those DID give a major advantage over non macro users.

UAC5 unjamming mechanic sucked to epic levels. That's why.

[SpiralRazor]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Man. Since the patch the whining about ECM ruining LRMs has been epic. And patently untrue. What it HAS done, is forced people to change their approach to using them, tactics and on their mechs, hardware configs. My Drop Group last night faced groups running 2-3 ECMs minimum, every single drop. We were running 2 ourselves, consistently. One in our Commando Scout, the other in our Atlas D-DC. Our Atlas was armed primarily with 3 ALRM 15 racks, an ECM, an ER Large Laser, and a TAG. Our Commando had 3 Streak Packs and a TAG to go with it's ECM. The other mechs fluctuated, with me playing in various Cataphracts and whatnot. Guess which mech consistently laid at the most damage, EVERY SINGLE MATCH? The supposedly nerfed and useless LRM boat, regularly recording 900+ points of damage. And it was done through simple teamwork, every mech covering the rest, and when an enemy ECM was in the way, our commando would go set his to "DIsrupt" and focus on said mech, while TAG-ing. Our Atlas also didn't find a hill to hide behind like so many LRM boats prefer but actively maintained a 350-450 meter separation so that he could use his own TAG, macro'd to always on, to lase targets and direct fire his LRMs. TL;DR.... The point is nothing is OP or Broken with ECM. People just haven't taken the time to find the work arounds. Lack of tactics and adaptability, and laziness make new tech OP, not the tech itself. ***EDIT, also, if they "turtle" under multi-ECM umbrella, it means they lose their ability to maneuver very effectively. And LRMs can be dumb fired at a SPOT. Turtled mechs means little ability to shift and doge, and therefore are succeptible to siege barrages.

You just fail to comprehend...If you seriously think there is nothing broken about ECM you arent capable of rational thought.

[RoboticRooster]

I was running a DDC with 2 ALRM 20's and had no issues hitting my pre patch damage numbers. ECM is not OP, it simply requires your team to work together. Pugs don't know how to work together and therefore they think its OP.

[ReD3y3]

My group uses 3-4 ecm per drop.

We do not use LRMs.

However the groups we have had the hardest time with are the ones that use LRMs effectively in direct fire with TAG.

LRMs are still very very good.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Icebound, on 06 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Macros are against the TOS. If they catch on you can be banned.

I find this a dubious statement. The devs previously encouraged the use of a 3rd party macro to unjam the UAC5, and they have stated that 3rd party macro software was ok to use. Unless you were using it to create a "bot" to run your mech while you were not at the keyboard.