154 replies to this topic

[Psikez]

Asmudius Heng, on 06 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

So if they put in a vastly OP weapon that was able to target through ECM but cost an extra ton and crit slot say and everyone started using it because it would basically make ECM worthless you would also be cool with that and would just adapt?

If yes, then i actually appreciate that you are the type of gamer who just works with what he has got.

However you think it is perfect which means any change means it is less than perfect ... which means you would not like to adapt to any change making you someone who just loves ECM and should not tell anyone to adapt because if they nerf ECM you will be the first to cry yea? Thought so.

What people like you fail to grasp is that most people who have an argument about balance of weapons DO adapt. They might not like it, but if they are competitive they will find a work around. That doesnt mean they approve of it.

We will all adapt, but put a better argument forward to why you think it is perfect or you just look like an ill informed troll.

Your argument amounts to "you're wrong" so I don't see how this is any better and devolves into the "people like you" non-sense. Trolls trollin trolls is all forums is

Codejack, on 06 December 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I wonder if all of the hostility towards streaks and the implied lack of skill is actually projection; that is, they are complaining because the close range lock-on mechanic actually requires you to keep the reticule on the target box while it locks on, and that was too difficult for them, so they are trying to metagame their way out of their own shortcomings?

I mean, netcode lag aside, keeping the crosshairs in one place while you fire a weapon that is going to go right there is pretty easy in comparison. Note also the complete lack of evidence to support the "ECM is fine" position; it's entirely appeal to emotion and other fallacious rhetorical tricks, interspersed with outright lies.

LMFAO

[One Medic Army]

Asmudius Heng, on 06 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

So if they put in a vastly OP weapon that was able to target through ECM but cost an extra ton and crit slot say and everyone started using it because it would basically make ECM worthless you would also be cool with that and would just adapt?

If yes, then i actually appreciate that you are the type of gamer who just works with what he has got.

I hate to say it, but those weapons are already in the game, they're called "lasers" "ballistics" and "normal SRMs".
They're usually heavier that streaks, sometimes deal more damage, almost always have more range, and just don't auto-target.
They work fine through ECM.

Edited by One Medic Army, 06 December 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[Codejack]

Look, a flat refutal of a wall of reasoning, with absolutely nothing to back it up!

[Asmudius Heng]

Psikez, on 06 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Your argument amounts to "you're wrong" so I don't see how this is any better and devolves into the "people like you" non-sense. Trolls trollin trolls is all forums is


LMFAO

Where did i say you were wrong? I said your post was useless and said nothing ... you have to say SOMETHING to be wrong

[Psikez]

Codejack, on 06 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Look, a flat refutal of a wall of reasoning, with absolutely nothing to back it up!

This thread has gone down to just plain ridiculous. Enjoy yourselves

Asmudius Heng, on 06 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Where did i say you were wrong? I said your post was useless and said nothing ... you have to say SOMETHING to be wrong

You weren't talking to me before. You're mixing up people feller

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

One Medic Army, on 06 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

I hate to say it, but those weapons are already in the game, they're called "lasers" "ballistics" and "normal SRMs".
They're heavier that streaks, deal more damage, have more range, and just don't auto-target.
They work fine through ECM.

This entirely ignores the problem that there are weapons in this game that are entirely worthless to use. If this is your solution, then you may as well remove lock on weapons entirely... along with Machine Guns and Flamers.(Because your solution to those too would be to just not use them) Hey, if it sucks, don' fix it, just remove it. That's game design, right?

[Asmudius Heng]

Psikez, on 06 December 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

This thread has gone down to just plain ridiculous. Enjoy yourselves


You weren't talking to me before. You're mixing up people feller

well you quoted me so you seem to be defending the other guy, unless i missed the meaning of your post. In essence i was not calling him wrong, i was saying his post was unhelpful and he needed to back up what he was saying.

When i tell someone they are wrong i put forth a logical argument to why i believe it to be so fella.

[One Medic Army]

Bluten, on 06 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

This entirely ignores the problem that there are weapons in this game that are entirely worthless to use. If this is your solution, then you may as well remove lock on weapons entirely... along with Machine Guns and Flamers.(Because your solution to those too would be to just not use them) Hey, if it sucks, don' fix it, just remove it. That's game design, right?

I was just pointing out a fallacy in your argument. Personally I would have just cut the fire rate on Streaks by 50%, or required re-locking after every shot. Not rendered them mostly useless.
But hey, I'd rather have them mostly useless than go back to the streakapult FPS annihilating, window smearing, gang**** of a couple weeks back.

[yashmack]

Bluten, on 06 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

This entirely ignores the problem that there are weapons in this game that are entirely worthless to use. If this is your solution, then you may as well remove lock on weapons entirely... along with Machine Guns and Flamers.(Because your solution to those too would be to just not use them) Hey, if it sucks, don' fix it, just remove it. That's game design, right?

machine guns and flamers were almost always used for ant-infantry, not mech warfare... at least in tabletop

lock on weapons are not useless, most, with the exception of SSRM2, can be dumb fired in the direction of your enemy
as ive been saying this whole time, LRM and other lock on weapons are still useful, you just need to have teamwork and have someone with a TAG
in every PUG I dropped in yesterday there was at least one ECM and one TAG in the group
adapt or die

Edited by yashmack, 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

One Medic Army, on 06 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

I hate to say it, but those weapons are already in the game, they're called "lasers" "ballistics" and "normal SRMs".
They're usually heavier that streaks, sometimes deal more damage, almost always have more range, and just don't auto-target.
They work fine through ECM.

Agreed, i mis typed i meant to say a guided weapon like an LRM.

The point is anyone who ever says adapt never takes thier own medicine because those who adapt dont go posting about something that is perfect they just adapt to anything.

You can have issues with something but still adapt basically. I will adapt but i can still say i believe ECM in its current state is bad for the game.

Does that make my analogy more clear? I am combatting the WAY people are arguing not the content.

[Codejack]

One Medic Army, on 06 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I was just pointing out a fallacy in your argument. Personally I would have just cut the fire rate on Streaks by 50%, or required re-locking after every shot. Not rendered them mostly useless.

I think he meant work like streaks/LRMs do now through ECM.

One Medic Army, on 06 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

But hey, I'd rather have them mostly useless than go back to the streakapult FPS annihilating, window smearing, gang**** of a couple weeks back.

Was the chain-firing shake and smoke the big issue? I admit to using against larger mechs, but that's mainly because the damage is so low that I need to distract them so they don't kill me.

I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding about what kind of mechs have what weaknesses.

[One Medic Army]

Nobody likes debuffs that impair their ability to actually play (stunlocks, blindness, paralysis, etc...)
In fact it did almost the same thing to my atlas that the ECM does to streak-cats, rendered me practically unable to fire.
I got used to it, and with the help of my team I could usually outbrawl 1 streakcat, in a brawling atlas, sometimes 2+ if they were bad. Regardless it was just plain not fun to fight them, targeting a red square on my hud through a black window at 10fps or so.

Edited by One Medic Army, 06 December 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[Codejack]

One Medic Army, on 06 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Nobody likes debuffs that impair their ability to actually play (stunlocks, blindness, paralysis, etc...)

Right, but the counter tactic is to torso twist to spread the damage and try to work your way around a corner or building to break lock, then you'll have a couple of seconds of uninterrupted fire as they regain lock. If you get caught in the open in close range of a streakcat, isn't that your own fault?

[One Medic Army]

The issue is being unable to see. Can't get cover if I can't see the terrain. Can't outrun something 50% faster with jumpjets. Can't both torso twist away and return fire. Plus torso twisting away leaves your back vulnerable, and even atlases pop to rear CT damage pretty fast.

[yashmack]

why cant you see the terrain??

[One Medic Army]

yashmack, on 06 December 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

why cant you see the terrain??

Well, when fighting a ripple-fire streak catapult it was due to my cockpit windows being covered in oily smoke and my framerate dropping to near unplayable levels.

[Mavairo]

Narc, certainly needs to be able to defeat TAG.

Narc is absolutely worthless, even without ECM on the field as it stands presently in mechwarrior online.

even after you buff it in such a fashion, I don't know if it would be enough due to the absurdly low ammunition you get per ton, and the pitch blackness of the round leaving the launcher with nary a jet trail to at least see if you've hit the target.

[DesertRat]

I like the NARC idea, but that's about it. As-is, it's pretty much pointless to mount a NARC, they're heavy, slow to refire, don't last long, and get crap for ammo. At least if you could overpower ECM on one enemy, that might make it worthwhile to throw on a scout mech.

[Codejack]

One Medic Army, on 06 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

The issue is being unable to see. Can't get cover if I can't see the terrain. Can't outrun something 50% faster with jumpjets. Can't both torso twist away and return fire. Plus torso twisting away leaves your back vulnerable, and even atlases pop to rear CT damage pretty fast.

Well, situational awareness is key. You should always be looking around and be at least somewhat familiar with the terrain. Proper torso twisting is just back and forth a little, to spread the damage across the whole torso and arms, but your rear armr should be maxed, anyway.

And don't try to return fire under those circumstances, you are only wasting ammo and leaving yourself vulnerable. Like I said, break the lock, then come around on him. It's not easy, but then, if it were, anyone could play.

[One Medic Army]

Actually, the best I usually do is face straight at them and land a couple salvos, makes them re-think brawling with 2x ASRM6s and an AC/20.

Regardless, my point was that how you feel about ECM affecting your mech is similar to how most of those you ripple-fired streaks at felt about your mech affecting them.