21 replies to this topic

[HlynkaCG]

Like the title says.

Is there a specific reason 5 - 7 man groups can not drop together against a similar number of players?

Edited by HlynkaCG, 06 December 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Spydattack]

I agree this is so ridiculous that they can't make a decent match making system that implements a system that allows any amount of players for a group. So we have 5 friends on and one gets screwed? It happens all the time after they limited our ability to allow groups of any size.

Come on, stop restricting this game.

Edited by Spydattack, 06 December 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[Azru]

is it so hard to break off and have a group of 3 and a group of 2? There is always the option of seeing a pug you like and inviting him/her to the group

[Domush]

This has to be one of the most irritating parts of this game. Teamwork is actively discouraged in this game. Everything about teamwork is more difficult, if not impossible.

• No voice
  
• Group launch buried in a menu (instead of front and center)
  
• Groups are buggy as hell
  
• No chat outside the match (and barely visible before a match)
  
• No chat after a match
  
• No way to find teammates to squad with
  
• No way to tell who is targeting who (so you can focus/spread fire)
  
• If squad leader leaves a group you must remake the entire group (because squad leader rarely gets moved to a new person)
  
• ..the list goes on and on..

Seeing as teamwork is required to win a match, how about focusing a single freaking brain cell towards making teamwork POSSIBLE, even, *gasp*, encouraged!


Your UI and usability design is pathetic, PGI.

Edited by Domush, 06 December 2012 - 07:18 PM.

[Xenroth]

They restricted to groups of up to 4 people or exact 8 man people of several reasons.
Why up to 4? Because even if you play against 4, with a fully random mixed team on your side, it is really hard to handle an enemy team which is partial a premade team. If there would be more it would be nearly impossible to have at least a chance in public/random games.

The other reason is, they are working on a matchmaking system that fits.
Don't think it's easy to develop a matchmaking algorithm that watches (hope its the right expression ;D) to a lot of different but important things without having the issue, that it takes ages to find some enemies that match to you. So they restrict the grouping in some way to make it more comfortable for us to play and to find games.

I'm sure they keep on working at the matchmaking system, but it takes time to improve this kind of complex algorithm

Edit: I'm sure things will change at some point, if they finally announce the limit of 12 players on each team per map, instead of only 8, which will also increase teamplay and tactics required to crush your enemy

Edited by Xenroth, 07 December 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

Azru, on 06 December 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

is it so hard to break off and have a group of 3 and a group of 2? There is always the option of seeing a pug you like and inviting him/her to the group

Is it wrong that 5 people might want to play together?

Xenroth, on 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

They restricted to groups of up to 4 people or exact 8 man people of several reasons.
Why up to 4? Because even if you play against 4, with a fully random mixed team on your side, it is really hard to handle an enemy team which is partial a premade team. If there would be more it would be nearly impossible to have at least a chance in public/random games.

I remember all the consternation forum-drama over PUG vs Preemies.

None of this explains why a group of 5 should not be allowed to drop against another group of 5. (or any other number for that matter)

how about rather than having "4 man max" and "8 man only" they have "random" and "team"? "Random" would work like "4 man max" does now. "Team" would match you against a premade of equal size. If you only have 3 people in your group you drop 3 v 3, if you have 7 you drop 7 v 7.

What's so difficult or OP about that, it seems to me that PGI is trying to actively discourage social play which in my opinion is Darwin-Award-Level stupid.

[Adrienne Vorton]

HlynkaCG, on 06 December 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

What's so difficult or OP about that, it seems to me that PGI is trying to actively discourage social play which in my opinion is Darwin-Award-Level stupid.

COD behaviour was too punishing in MWO... next thing will most likely be infinite respawn in random matches ... *coughs*

but i gotta admit, that the "barebone" game we have right now lacks of many features that would make coordination and grouping up with random people more comfortable... there are workaround solutions, like public TS, C3 and even the forums, but it´s a gamers law, that lazyness pwns everything^^

so as long as there is no proper lobby, no identifaction of teammates on the field and other stuff like that, people who have more than 3 friends will have to go the way our good old "Lonesome rangers" refuse to go...

[mekabuser]

why? because its a freakin stomp everytime...thats why/
As a poster pointed out though, its pgis fault for not having voice.and a million other things.
the players suffer.
Hopefully phase three is soon and not a disaster.

[Asmosis]

I think the 8 man queue should actually be the "anything goes" team queue meaning if you have 6-7 people, you can still join that queue even though you'll be at a disadvantage.

There are groups of players who could easily field 6+ mechs and beat 8 man teams (they might be piloting 6 atlas but meh).

[Quazil]

The reason there's no lobby system is because "it's beta" and they have prioritized other features and bug fixes first. The 4 & 8 man hack does suck.

Edited by Quazil, 06 December 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Asmosis]

I'm sure they have someone working on it. Its not like all 50 of them work on a single issue at a time.

[Purplefluffybunny]

HlynkaCG, on 06 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Like the title says.

Is there a specific reason 5 - 7 man groups can not drop together against a similar number of players?

If people took the time to read up on this they would find that PGI are testing, as in testing the effects of different sized groups on game play. The current limits are in no way final. PGI are being quite methodical and sensible in their approach here.

[HlynkaCG]

mekabuser, on 06 December 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

why? because its a freakin stomp everytime...thats why/
As a poster pointed out though, its pgis fault for not having voice.and a million other things.
the players suffer.
Hopefully phase three is soon and not a disaster.

You're not making any sense.

A team of 5 dropping against a second team of 5 would be a stomp every time?

For whom?

Purplefluffybunny, on 06 December 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

If people took the time to read up on this they would find that PGI are testing, as in testing the effects of different sized groups on game play. The current limits are in no way final. PGI are being quite methodical and sensible in their approach here.

I've been in since closed Beta so I'm familiar with the history and the stated arguments. I'm just trying to figure out what's so difficult about team sizes other than 8. Do the servers explode if there aren't at least 16 players on the map at the start of a match?

[Kremator1968]

I call for ONE-MAN premades ! That would sort it

[Inertiaman]

The lack of lobby and manual/custom/private match launching is a total shot in the foot for MWO and I can't believe that it's not been rolled out as any kind of priority given the importance placed on NPE recently.

An equally interesting question around lobby matchmaking/custom game - and one that steps around most of the ignorant mockery above - would be why no 2v2/3v3/etc-5v5/6v6/7v7 match options? There is immense value to the community to be able to organise proper matches of any size at any time.

Doing so would have no serious impact on the general random 8v8 pool in terms of player cannibalism - the players that would use it are likely sitting around on TS waiting for 8's. Obviously it reduces the efficency of the server pool a little but honestly - I have no idea why there aren't regional groups of servers yet. Natural Selection 2 managed to work that out prior to launch by approaching Multiplay and paying for them to host a series of dedicated machines in each region.

The only things that can possibly have stopped PGI doing the same are either an unwillingness to spend the relatively small amount of money required, or an inability to redevelop the matchmaking/lobby system to intelligently divide, or offer the option of local servers to players.

[mekabuser]

HlynkaCG, on 06 December 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

You're not making any sense.

A team of 5 dropping against a second team of 5 would be a stomp every time?

For whom?

I must have misunderstood OP.. Then , as you put it, the reason is it would be nigh impossible to find someother 5 man team to drop against.
As another dude said, if you wanna drop against another 8,7,6,or 5 man team , that would be fine I guess. but i think it would be difficult to find a match based on specific numbers, 5,6,7

[Cache]

HlynkaCG, on 06 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Is there a specific reason 5 - 7 man groups can not drop together against a similar number of players?

There is. It is to prevent abuse of the system and PUG-stomping. People went nuts complaining about 8-man PUG-stomps, do you think 7-man PUG-stomps would go over any better? Or would you prefer a 5-man group be set up against an 8-man so the three PUGs that get attached get slaughtered?

[Cache]

Here's a link for you. Also keep in mind that this system is temporary. If they had the resources to make a temporary system perfect, why bother with temporary? Wait for phase 3... you know, the real matchmaking system.

[machinech]

cache, on 07 December 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

There is. It is to prevent abuse of the system and PUG-stomping. People went nuts complaining about 8-man PUG-stomps, do you think 7-man PUG-stomps would go over any better? Or would you prefer a 5-man group be set up against an 8-man so the three PUGs that get attached get slaughtered?

I'm not sure when reading comprehension became so rare, but I blame schools... Anyhow, I'm confused how so many in this thread fail to grasp the point here. No one is crying for 5-7 man premades being turned loose on PUGs. What IS being considered is why there is no option for 5-7 man premades vs 5-7 man premades of the same number. Yes some have stated "but what happens if the system can't find another group of the same size?" Well that's pretty simple actually, they don't fine one! I know then said group with no matchup will likely commit ritual suicide... wait that would be stupid. Exactly, if you que up for a odd size team an one isn't found you'll either wait for another, add more or less to your own, and try again. Patience is a general skill/trait that can be applied to an endless number of things as a solution. God forbid you not find a matchup an have to do exactly what everyone is doing now. Either wait for a full team, reduce to 4, or drop solo. Try the decaff, or lay off the energy drinks, it'll help.

[Cache]

machinech, on 07 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

I'm not sure when reading comprehension became so rare,

Consider working on your own. I answered the OP's question in my first post. Period.

machinech, on 07 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

What IS being considered is why there is no option for 5-7 man premades vs 5-7 man premades of the same number.

Speaking of reading comprehension difficulties, I answered this in my second post. If you hadn't noticed, drops always contain 8 Mechs per team, barring disconnects and bugs. That is the system they have in place at the moment. They don't intend to allow smaller drops at this point. THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE NOW. PHASE 3 IS WHAT WE WILL HAVE SOON. EXPANDED OPTIONS ARE IN WORK. The problem for you instant-gratification/low-reading-comprehension types is that ALL NEW SYSTEMS WILL TAKE CONSIDERABLE TIME TO BE IMPLEMENTED. Understand better now?