86 replies to this topic

[Ricama]

Kobura, on 06 December 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Sure! Forgive me if I don't splat the loadouts right here, but we've got a few main rules we hold ourselves to:
Don't stick Gauss or tank guns in machinegun ports (AKA no K2 with AC10s, Gauss, AC20s)
Don't abuse poor netcoding/client performance/packetloss to our benefit (we self-restrict our mechs to in the 115-120 range, and don't use Flamers at the moment for how spastic they make some minspec computers)
Don't suicide by heat, out of bounds, or friendly fire to cheat the enemy of a kill
Don't be a tard.

Don't do things that'd make the game ferociously unfun not only for your team, but for the other team. It's largely subjective, if we find something that some other side is doing is 'wrong', by general decision, we usually don't do it. And what's more, it's not something that we impose on our group, it's something the group was founded on. Fair play, fun, victory by skill and ability...instead of flowchart.

Not to say we don't optimize builds, but for instance, we've had PPC-main Atlas. Triple LargePulse Cat-C1. We have an Awesome that moves in the upper 80s. It's not about "what's best", it's about "what's fun", and then we make it the best we can.

Hopefully what's both fun and not ludicrous will stand a chance when piloted competently in the future. I really ought to say, generally speaking, we have done spectacularly well, this being the Sharks' first cohesive foray into 8v8 (even with the extreme technical problems after about 9pm EST resulting in many 7-6v8s or other handicaps), totalling around 11W/3L give or take one on either number, for the ones I participated in or spectated or watched on one member's Livestream.

Those three losses were, one to Blazing Aces with spectacular coordination of a highly mobile hammer/anvil team, one to a Steiner Recon Company of D-DC ECM AC20-SRM18 baserush clump, and one to the team I described originally.

Yes, we did well. We probably deserved the W/L we have currently running. But I'd really have liked it to be more to good teams, instead of good spreadsheets.

It is most important to have fun. We have a 'run what you brung' philosophy, we don't shun people who bring a gausskitty but if you bring a fun or silly mech that's fine too. As I said the meta is in it's infancy with DHS, ECM and the likes so people are running the obvious first and eventually counters will be developed, and then counters to counters ect. Hopefully one of us finds the counters to the first round of cheese so we can start on the second.

[random51]

Dealing with sniper teams requires a lot of coordination. Your team has to be smart enough, controlled enough to determine you're facing a sniper team before you're already down a mech or two because they stuck their head out of cover. The sniper team, on the other hand, coordinates automatically as targets present themselves.

[Wingbreaker]

Funny, just today I was told gauss were worthless and I should feel bad.

Was there a patch I didn't notice?

[Daekar]

Yep... teams full of high alpha builds clumped together so that the first thing that pokes its cockpit up gets a ride via the ejection system. No thank you. I don't care if it's optimized, allowed, the best build, totally legit, within or against canon... nope, none of that matters, because that's not fun. I'm SO sticking to pugging until the 8v8 groups get tired of smashing each other with the same oversized hammers...

Devs take note: yet another complaint about extremely quick TTK. You'll continue seeing them.

[Quazil]

Kobura, on 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

<snip>
What is someone supposed to do? Yes, it was 8v8. No, our team doesn't want to resort to this sort of un-funnery
<snip>

If you are not going to min-max you are not going to be competitive - not an excuse to leave things broken, but you will never perform in 8v8 matches with that mentality.

Edited by Quazil, 06 December 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Kobura]

Quazil, on 06 December 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you are not going to min-max you are not going to be competitive - not an excuse to leave things broken, but you will never perform in 8v8 matches with that mentality.

You might've failed to notice our end K/D *edit* W/L was 11/3.

But like I said, 2 of those 3 felt... sour. Scattershot, not spreadsheets. Kill me softly.

Edited by Kobura, 07 December 2012 - 06:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kobura, on 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

So, Gausscats. AC20cats, Gauss-Illyas, Gauss/ECM/SRM18 D-DCs. Focus-fire them, right?...so, focus-fire the entire team?

Just had a match with an AC20cat, one aforementioned D-DC, no less than two Gausscats, a dual-Gauss Illyas... a smattering of other ECM mechs.

Yes one at a time you do an 8 man firing squad. 8 on 1 should have a Mech dead in seconds.

[KuruptU4Fun]

So realistically what are we asking of the devs in the future? 8v8 match options that include open weight, weight restriction, possibly even stock build only matches? There are obvioulsy things that would have to be updated in the Mechlab inorder to make that last one happen. But I wouldn't believe having a button that reverts any mech back to a stock build would be difficult to code. Do you believe that these options should be in a Solaris type arena or playable in in CW?

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 07 December 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[KinLuu]

There will always be a meta. People always will whine at it.

[Solom Rembert]

Dear Op,

i may advice you to view the latest NGNG Podcast and have a bucket at hand.
Those PGI sponsored wowers point out that cheese is the only way to go in competitive gameplay.

HF

[Dukov Nook]

Dreadp1r4te, on 06 December 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...i/Hunchback_IIC

...and it's Clan Tech, which obviously hasn't been encountered by Inner Sphere forces just yet... therefore your arguement is null and void, because we would also have Clan ER PPCs which do as much damage as a Gauss Rifle, weigh 2 tons less, and generate less heat. =\

Oh, and we'd have a Mad Cat too. <3

you didn't specify a 'time sphere', you just said 'in battletech'.

[Sir Trent Howell]

The Blazing Aces really don't use "cheese" designs. On a rare occassion we might field a Gaussapult or two, but our tactical doctrine does not emphasize those sorts of builds. We don't really run into them much either, a rare Gaussapult or Streakapult, mostly ECM Atlases. Not sure if we've been missing these "cheese" drops or their prevelence is overstated.

[Greyfyl]

The hardcore players are going to ALWAYS min/max. ALWAYS.

And then tell you that you suck and need to l2p.

[FluffyCats]

I will put my 2 bits in this topic, I am a clanner of Clan Widowmaker, and I was put into a worse situation than the OP and we came out on top. Playing Frozen City Dark and I was DCing (drop-commanding) and our D-DC ECM atlas get black screen and doesnt drop with us....that leaves us with our one ECM cicada, we have 1 brawler atlas left, im in a 3 U/AC-5 ilya, we have a hunchback, a catapult, a cataphract, and a missle atlas. We go against a 3 atlas team (all of them have ECM) and they have 2 commandos (both with ECM) and they have a gausscat and a cataphract or 2. You know what happens? we set up a firing line, have our cicada draw them in, and (while using heat vision so we can see their team) focus fire each of their mechs one-by-one and we beat them.

So, what does that all mean besides me just enjoying a good game? Teamwork and communication can make almost any situation a winnable one. Does that mean it is easy? NOOOO! Focus fire the right targets. In a competative game such as Mechwarrior Online Min/Maxing is part of the game, if you dont like it then go play 4-mans, 8-mans are going to be very competitive, and ECM is still being figured out, so a lot of people will be running them.

[Sir Trent Howell]

Good playing against you last night Widowmakers, close games each time. Looking forward to our next encounter.

[a rabid chihuahua]

It's my 2 cents worth ,but I also agree it is the platforms. I honestly think the mechs should have more of a restriction as light to heavy Hardpoints as well as ballisitic,laser,missle so you don't have that much of an omni build and more reason for the various chassis designs. but overall I've run into all of the metas and died and won with Pugs and premades. just comes down to the communication and working the field.

[Codejack]

I think that it should be as free-form as possible; unusual mech builds have always been a part of BT/MW, and for those of us whose favorite part of the game is the mechlab, it is the best part.

The part where you go out and shoot at people is just there to see how well your mech build does

Well, and to get money to build more mechs!

[PANZERBUNNY]

Since when was a Dual AC 20 cat considered cheese?

I really do hate most of you people. I really do. Luckily for my enjoyment the few non mongrel miscreants who play this game, make it worthwhile and don't pander to this kind of peer pressure labeling of certain rigs.

I've been riding in a Dual AC 20 cat when everyone hung ballistics out to dry and the AC 20 even more so. It would appear in my 2 months absence that something has changed or have more inbred gamers flocked to MWO's banner?

Tell you what. Create a list of what is "acceptable" to play so that we may all submit to your fascist view of how to play the game in a non "cheese" manner.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 07 December 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[Parnage Winters]

Oh we're using the "I've heard this word in other games so it must fit here" definition of cheese play? Yeah.. stop that. Judging by your dislike of non Canon builds your use of the word is akin to me calling Canon cannon.

Here's how it is. This is temporary. Unmatched, no limit drops are TEMPORARY. It's like you guys never read the Command chair section of the Dev's corner. Seriously half of your concerns could be solved by a few clicks and a moment of reading.

An ELO based system is in the works, this system will presumably have a kind of mech value system akin to what non 8v8 games have now. Keep calm and try to have some fun. Yeesh.

[Harrison Kelly]

Mechwarrior games and Battletech itself have long included the power to extensively customize your Mech. Now, if YOU want to go all LARP and pilot stock Mechs because it's honorable or it's "how Battletech should be played," be my guest. Nothing stopping you.

But when you come over to me and say "Everyone should play like I play," that's stupid. You're bad for saying that and you should feel bad. You don't like customized or specialized builds, don't run them, but don't deprive people of the freedom to build Mechs how they want because it doesn't fit your personal Mechwarrior paradigm.

I have the same problem with people who want entire weapons systems (e.g. a lot of the current ECM apologists and LRMs/Streaks) nerfed to non-usefulness. The game should provide plenty of options for you to choose, and customization/diverse array of viable weapons/gear is a big part of that.

That said, I've never met a stock Mech I've liked and I can always build it better to suit MY playstyle. If you don't feel that way, fine, don't run a specialized/customized Mech, but don't dare to preach to the rest of the playerbase how they should play.

Edited by Harrison Kelly, 07 December 2012 - 03:30 PM.