45 replies to this topic

[Tolkien]

I like to change around my mechs quite a lot, so I was very disappointed to find out that upgraded structure was not a toggle, but something that you had to pay for, then pay to go back to standard structure, then pay to get back again.

Some of these systems (like double heatsinks) cost more than a new mech! Why should we have to pay for them every time we toggle them on/off? It would literally be cheaper to buy a second hunchback than to toggle double heatsinks on/off twice.

[Shalune]

Voted yes. And for the record I'd be okay with paying more them the 1 time if it was permanent.

[One Medic Army]

Ferro:yes, it's no more complicated than replacing the already existing armor on a mech.
Artemis: you are replacing equipment only, same difficulty as changing weapons.
DHS: same difficulty as replacing heatsinks.

Endo is the only one I can see having a cost to remove and re-add repeatedly.
Then again I've never taken Endo off of any of my mechs, and I run it on everything, even the atlas.

[Taryys]

I am not sure where I stand on this issue.
I do like the idea of pay once and then it becomes a toggle.

Or perhaps just a lower price to handle the conversion instead of full price, once you have paid for it.

Edited by Taryys, 07 December 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Scratx]

I'd rather they start by making it possible to fiddle with a configuration such that I can select upgrades AND loadout before committing to paying a single C-Bill to actually apply it.

[verybad]

One Medic Army, on 07 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Ferro:yes, it's no more complicated than replacing the already existing armor on a mech.
Artemis: you are replacing equipment only, same difficulty as changing weapons.
DHS: same difficulty as replacing heatsinks.

Endo is the only one I can see having a cost to remove and re-add repeatedly.
Then again I've never taken Endo off of any of my mechs, and I run it on everything, even the atlas.

Pretty much this.

I can understand the charge for the structure, as you're effectively rebuilding the mech. Armor and heatshinks no however.

For a suggestion however, I reccomend that NOBODY every switch back and forth on a mech with Endo especially. Just buy a new mech of the same class and have one with the endo or other stuff. It only takes a few endo builds to cover the cost of an entire mech, and repairing them costs much more than repairing standard structure mechs.

I am planning on taking endo OUT of my Founder Jenner in fact as the extra 1.75 tons is no where near worth the loss in moneymaking capability in that mech. However that's a speciallized situation. The sweet spot for endo is in mediums and maybe the Dragon, where the extra tonnage is worth the loss in space.

I dont' think Ferro is worth the cost in repairs ever, certainly not on large mechs.

1.4 Heatsinks are the most valuable things, and while they're not MUST haves in most mechs, I can't imagine not taking them in energy prone and or smaller mechs with big engines.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

The system as it is now is just another way that newer players are punished for not being experienced yet. I don't ever switch things around anymore, because I know what I need and what is going to fit ahead of time. How many new players buy FF thinking that an armor upgrade must be a good idea, only to find out that it isn't actually much of an upgrade?

[Tolkien]

Shalune, on 07 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Voted yes. And for the record I'd be okay with paying more them the 1 time if it was permanent.

Agreed, doubling might be fair.

Taryys, on 07 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I am not sure where I stand on this issue.
I do like the idea of pay once and then it becomes a toggle.

Or perhaps just a lower price to handle the conversion instead of full price, once you have paid for it.

This would also work, but even quarter price would be a lot of Cbills if you change often.

Scratx, on 07 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I'd rather they start by making it possible to fiddle with a configuration such that I can select upgrades AND loadout before committing to paying a single C-Bill to actually apply it.

This is another big one. Because of the disjointed mechlab where you have to do your loadout seperate from your 'upgrades' it's hard to tell if what you are working on is viable or a dead end until you have spent a lot of Cbills.

[Cerlin]

I think they should be able to be added BEFORE you buy like the rest of the mech lab. This is critical to see if your build even needs it. Along with this once you upgrade you should be able to DOWNGrade for free. You own both sets, why do you have to pay so much more to get the low tech option AGAIN that you already own?

[Greyfyl]

There are so many things wrong with the mechlab and the associated grind that I don't even know where I would start.

Edited by Greyfyl, 07 December 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[RabbidFerret]

Yes! I was shocked to see that I had to pay to convert back to SHS the first time I tried.

[Team Leader]

Anyone who says no needs to go outside and get some sun... Not everybody has the time to play 3 or more matches to switch back and forth...

If you want REALISM , then you need to go into hardcore mode.
1)If your mech is ever destroyed in battle and you lose, its gone forever because the enemy captured it.
2)If you die and you win, you need to pay almost the full price in millions of cbills to repair your completely wasted fusion reactor, cockpit, targeting systems, etc.
3)Swapping components should take real life days, and cost tens of thousands of cbills.
4)You arent allowed to use trial mechs.
5)If a component gets destroyed you have to replace it with a brand new one.
6) if you die more than 3 times you get fired from your merc corp
7) lose 5 matches in a row and you get kicked out of your house military
8) if youre a lone wolf and you lose once, you have to enlist in the infantry divisions and play an FPS. That way flamers and machine guns will have a purpose.

Now THATS realism!

Edited by Team Leader, 09 December 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[verybad]

Yeah, the disjointed mechlab is the least flexible in the series. It's got some nifty features, but the spread out system makes it difficult to use effectively.

Also, if were paying to rebuild the systems each time, at least they could pay us have for the systems that we seem to be getting rid of then, as with weapons and electronics. (and mechs)

At least give us the option of keeping the structure, Ferrro, etc and just have a cost of labor after the first buy. (say 25% the total first cost, and even that is high, but I'm trying to be nice to Piranha)

[Lanessar]

Honestly, the arguments about a garage and replacing an engine need to go the way of the dodo.

It's pixels. This is a game. In combat, I don't mind it being a Sim. But in the mechbay, I don't see gantries loading up my large lasers I've swapped in, I don't see an installation fee for a PPC, so stop, already, with the broken realistic comparisons.

It's just plain not fun to pay to switch out an upgrade to a downgrade.

[shabowie]

Should be like any other part.

It's really stupid to have to switch out things like endo steel and Artemis to make things work with different builds.

Edited by shabowie, 07 December 2012 - 10:10 AM.

[Ilwrath]

I have wasted millions while drunk by messing with "double" heatsinks on my awesomes. I guess I can blame myself for that. Somewhat. But paying to reset back is just a kick in the balls.

I also just got a Raven for the EMC. I got rather angry when I found out that it had ferrofib and I have to pay to get rid of it. Then I alt F4'ed out of this game and open up the Hawken site so I could download that and forget about this game for a while. Was sure it was released but its still in closed beta. What a ****** day.

[Tolkien]

verybad, on 07 December 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Yeah, the disjointed mechlab is the least flexible in the series. It's got some nifty features, but the spread out system makes it difficult to use effectively.

Also, if were paying to rebuild the systems each time, at least they could pay us have for the systems that we seem to be getting rid of then, as with weapons and electronics. (and mechs)

At least give us the option of keeping the structure, Ferrro, etc and just have a cost of labor after the first buy. (say 25% the total first cost, and even that is high, but I'm trying to be nice to Piranha)

Another big issue is that people are going to be shocked to find out what it costs to repair a mech with ES and/or FF. For the record I am against repair costs being higher for better mechs since it leads to a tragedy of the commons. For the individual player the better outcome (more Cbills) is achieved by running a cheap mech rather than a good mech (sure the team will lose more often, but you make far more even in a loss than you would repairing a good mech with 50/50 win/loss).

[Koreanese]

Heres the thing. Its just my opinion.
You need a motive to keep on playing the game and have fun. If you played for few months and unlocked everysingle thing in the content, you wont have the needs for cbills anymore. After that, whats the point? If options like these upgrade costing cbills everytime you switch. It keeps the economy cycling and the demand for c bill is still present. Personally i think everything should be more expensive then how they are now. That way you constantly have a goal to reach.

Now someone with infinite wisdom just smite me with your intellectual speech about how i am wrong

[Sprouticus]

Koreanese, on 07 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Heres the thing. Its just my opinion.
You need a motive to keep on playing the game and have fun. If you played for few months and unlocked everysingle thing in the content, you wont have the needs for cbills anymore. After that, whats the point? If options like these upgrade costing cbills everytime you switch. It keeps the economy cycling and the demand for c bill is still present. Personally i think everything should be more expensive then how they are now. That way you constantly have a goal to reach.

Now someone with infinite wisdom just smite me with your intellectual speech about how i am wrong

If unlocking stuff is your only reason for playing, or even your primary reason, then you are in the wrong game.

Grinding unlocks should be a secondary goal generation device in the game. Modules, XP trees, new variants, etc ALL of those should be secondary.

The primary reason to play the game MUST be the game itself, not the meta game. It should be fun to play after you get everything unlocked,

It should encourage you to spend money as well. It is a business after all.

But yea, if you are only playing to unlock stuff, there are better metagame models for that kind of achievement thing.


On topic though:

I would have highly preferred Endo/Ferro AND DHS being an unlock per variant. I understand why they modeled it this way (wanted to simiulate the actual cost of changing a mech) but in the end it becomes a bother for the user, not a benifit. Sometimes reality in such things needs to be set aside.

So yea, I think All 3 should have been unlocks (perhaps GXP + CB?) and then freely available to switch.

I also think module costs should be changed

unock = GXP + x million CB
Buying actual modules = 50-100k

Moving modules around is annoying as ****. Especially when you cant remember where you left a module.

[Tolkien]

Koreanese, on 07 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Heres the thing. Its just my opinion.
You need a motive to keep on playing the game and have fun. If you played for few months and unlocked everysingle thing in the content, you wont have the needs for cbills anymore. After that, whats the point? If options like these upgrade costing cbills everytime you switch. It keeps the economy cycling and the demand for c bill is still present. Personally i think everything should be more expensive then how they are now. That way you constantly have a goal to reach.

Now someone with infinite wisdom just smite me with your intellectual speech about how i am wrong

What if I think you're right but want to smite you anyway?

I agree that a long term Cbill sink is desirable, but is it actually needed? In games the currency sinks are needed to prevent player transactions from getting out of hand. E.g. in WOW gold inflation made items on the auction house always get more and more expensive. In MWO there is no player driven economy, so I don't know if money sinks are needed in this game.

For example, two players on the battlefield of equal skill in the same mech... one has 5M cbills in the bank, the other has 500M cbills in the bank... does the money affect the combat?

Just my 0.02 on Cbill sinking.