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Ecm And Skill


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#61 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:01 AM

View PostPlavis, on 11 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:



Lyrics is from Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall


Originally? Well I only recognized it from Korn, I never heard anything from Pink Floyd. But a lot of bands remake/remix work from other artists. Still, his lines in the video cracked me up. ;)

#62 stjobe

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:23 AM

ECM hasn't impacted my stats in any significant way; I had a positive KDR and WLR before the patch, I still have it post-patch.

And that's with me grinding my Centurions post-patch and running my Commandos pre-patch, PUGging all the way.

Is ECM powerful? Yes, it is. Is it too powerful? That's obviously up for debate. Would I like it gone? Hell no. I love the fact that I now sometimes need to look beyond my minimap/HUD to actually spot and fire on the enemy. I love the fact that I don't always know where the enemy is. I love the fact that it in essence made the maps bigger.

As for LRMs and Streaks, they still work just like they did pre-ECM. You just have to find a target that's outside ECM range to use them, or TAG a target from outside ECM range. There's plenty of such targets in PUG games.

Edited by stjobe, 11 December 2012 - 08:25 AM.


#63 Kobura

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:36 AM

This after only reading Page 1

Vermaxx, I never ever agree with you, but slam dunk. Credit where due.

#64 Lightfoot

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:38 AM

Really doesn't matter. ECM in MWO has nothing to do with Battletech's ECM.

I find that strange since they bend over backwards to make LRMs and other weapons conform to TT and in the case of LRMs they can't without making them either over-powering or worthless. In a MechWarrior interactive game players should want to take some LRMs and some lasers on their 'mech. In MWO they want squads of 'mechs with only LRMs or no LRMs at all, depending on the patch.

#65 Kobura

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:45 AM

View PostF lan Ker, on 11 December 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

How the ECM for example blocks the TAG laser from reflecting at a Mech's surface, thus providing needed feedback to get a target lock, is mildly put strange and not even logical. To do so the ECM would need to shut off TAG completely but this is not the case I believe, just does not provide lock for others within 180m. Increasing it's range is an improvement I guess. But to render laser useless or reduce it's efficiency would require smoke, low reflecting surfaces etc. and none of those are in MWO.


To be fair, the TAG could be only detecting its' own laser at a unique frequency, otherwise laser dazzlers would be 100% standard equipment to permaspoof all laser-guided equipment (tag, artemis [which in my defense canonically requires no indirect fire and also firer's line of sight for the laser lockon], streaks...)

So, there IS that, and if the TAG used the existing intermech communications to transmit its' findings to a firer, it'd be suitably blocked by the current style of ECM effects.

They could house-rule it to be different though. I'd be fine with that. They've house ruled the snot out of everything already ;)

Someone asked me how much heat a large laser generated last night. I'm so steeped in MWO-tech (which is no longer BattleTech, it's something different) that I said seven.

Needless to say, I was wrong.

*EDIT*

View PostLightfoot, on 11 December 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Really doesn't matter. ECM in MWO has nothing to do with Battletech's ECM.

I find that strange since they bend over backwards to make LRMs and other weapons conform to TT and in the case of LRMs they can't without making them either over-powering or worthless. In a MechWarrior interactive game players should want to take some LRMs and some lasers on their 'mech. In MWO they want squads of 'mechs with only LRMs or no LRMs at all, depending on the patch.


Nnnnooooo... LRMS do not go 33.3 hexes... they go 21. And TAG-capable missiles use special warheads which wouldn't exist yet. Same for NARC. They're both as expensive as the (currently correctly represented [YES IN COST TOO]) Artemis warheads. Also, my lasers do all their damage to one place, ammo explodes if I so much as fart on it after a structure-critical, and PPCs are a useful, even terrifying weapon.


Dying at that last one. Hitscan-effect our PPCs, PGI...please. Just do it. Make them a superlaser. They already straight up lose next to LargeLasers. Just try it. Even put their heat back where it belongs and try it.

Also SRMs aren't the most terrifying things on 2- or 4-legs inside a hundred meters (unless we're using the advanced scatter range rules in which case we're using a clusterhell of other rules only some of which I see represented), they only do 2 damage, LRMs do 1 damage (and they're ok there), and I can potentially headnuke someone with a single Gauss rifle... (3% of the time. 3! That's an ok number.)

Heat sinks don't increase the maximum heat you can accomodate, BAP is an enormous paperweight unless you're sniffing ambushes/shutdown mechs (which is unfortunately so useless in this game due to the microscopic maps), and a single ECM doesn't make or break a game for all the light mechs involved (shaking my fist at you, Streaks-as-only-counter-to-lagshield-coupled-with-poor-framerate).

Machineguns actually HAVE a damage number, Flamers are more painful to the firing mech than the victim (but are surprisingly terrifying to encounter), Small Pulse Laser have a point at all, and jumping does more than make you a ***** target at long range.

...they have modified the game beyond being Battletech. It contributes to the series, and puts a very pretty (if equally or moreso buggy) face on an old franchise which needed it, but it's about 60% Battletech and 40% PGI"balance"tech at this point.

Edited by Kobura, 11 December 2012 - 08:57 AM.


#66 Plavis

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

View PostBluten, on 11 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:


Originally? Well I only recognized it from Korn, I never heard anything from Pink Floyd. But a lot of bands remake/remix work from other artists. Still, his lines in the video cracked me up. ;)



#67 Jacmac

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:52 AM

View PostCodejack, on 07 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:


I've been playing around with a TAG on my C4 Catapult, but keeping fast lights painted is about impossible, and keeping Atlases painted is suicide.

I've been waiting for someone to say this. TAG is virtually useless, but I keep hearing people talk about how they are going to load TAG on their LRM boat when the range is boosted up to 750. Are you really? Good luck with that!

#68 shabowie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:59 AM

View PostAceTimberwolf, on 07 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Clan LRMs are Direct Fire Only. Not indirect capable since to the Clans indirect Combat is not honorable


Citation that Clan LRMs are incapable of indirect fire please. Only thing even close I'm aware of is use of artillery or indirect fire is a violation of zellbrigen, but never read anything saying Clan LRMs were technically incapable of it.

#69 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:05 AM

Ironic video. I liked the assembly line clips, makes me think of all the LRM carriers now rolling towards the grinder for metal recycling. The bunny ears will soon be an endangered species and collector's item. Better get yours now before the shop even stops bothering to sell them. I got 3 missile rack variants myself, so it's like a graveyard in my hanger now.

#70 Syllogy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

View PostBluten, on 11 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Ironic video. I liked the assembly line clips, makes me think of all the LRM carriers now rolling towards the grinder for metal recycling. The bunny ears will soon be an endangered species and collector's item. Better get yours now before the shop even stops bothering to sell them. I got 3 missile rack variants myself, so it's like a graveyard in my hanger now.


Maybe you should try to make a build that useful and effective?

Have you tried to TAG your own targets?

#71 Yagyu

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:07 AM

ECM on any Atlas is way too much.
Over the top.
BS.
If you're going to put CloakCM on assault mechs, just put it on every mech and be done with it.
That is all.

#72 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

View PostSyllogy, on 11 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:


Maybe you should try to make a build that useful and effective?

Have you tried to TAG your own targets?


Do I have to repeatedly state how pointless this is? If you're at 450m, you may as well "not" use LRMs. They're going to buff the range on that there laser pointer Tag next patch... but it still won't fix the game as a whole or the problems done by the ECM patch, not really(And GL Tagging a light for this at 500-750m). LRMs will still be largely extinct from the game. This, right here, ->You shouldn't have to waste 1 weapon hardpoint just to enable another to function at all when it is disabled by an AoE automatic device that eats no such hardpoint at all.<-That. They need to read that. The Tag could be an assist and is what it should be, but as a "primary counter" required just to function, it's a joke, and bumping its range won't change enough post-patch. Maybe one day they'll stop catering to brawlers, and make the BAP actually do something. How about that? If it restored you to 500m or something, we'd actually be making progress and some reliability would return in between trying to Tag spot. We would then actually have a reason to use the device for one, then could take it to the field, and also see if that was sufficient making LRMs viable again. But this one Tag change? By itself? It won't change anything. That dinky beam isn't reliable enough nor should it be required just to shoot in the first place. I'll test it out just to reinforce my point and to be able to say, "I tried it. A lot. And it sucks. Whata shock", but in reality LRMs will still be just as extinct as they are now. You need some kind of reliability. A wonder beam you have to channel for a long time for a very delayed lock isn't that. If they buffed the BAP and made it do something on top of the Tag change, then maybe we'd have something. But I doubt they're going to do that. So until such a time comes, enjoy your brawler online everyone.

#73 xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostYagyu, on 11 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

ECM on any Atlas is way too much.
Over the top.
BS.
If you're going to put CloakCM on assault mechs, just put it on every mech and be done with it.
That is all.


The Atlas, from what I understand of battletech, was made for electronics, not just to be a tank. So if the device didn't totally break the game or wasn't super OP, you wouldn't have a problem with them holding true to that and allowing its use on the Mech. But the problem is that the thing is super OP and makes you pretty much missile immune, so now you're just a walking tank totally immune to LRMs. Worse yet is that the AMS serves no function anymore. Why would anyone take a K over a D DC? Please tell me this someone, because if the game is all so perfectly balanced as you say, why would you do that? Why would you take a +1 AMS over the ECM? Why? You can't answer that. Because there's no reason to do it. If you buy a K variant now, you're just an *****. There's 3 others that doesn't handicap themselves for that extra useless AMS, and 1 has the ECM. Why would you sacrifice guns to get another now defunct AMS or "not" take the 1 variant that can use the jesus box, also known as the ECM? This right here is just another example of how horribly designed this device is. The one upside here, I'm predicting, is that the Atlas will be the 1 ECM target that you'll be able reliably use the Tag on once its range bumps.

Edited by Bluten, 11 December 2012 - 10:05 AM.






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