52 replies to this topic

[HC Harlequin]

What is ECM...
ECM works against 2 seperate objects.. Enemy Sensors and Enemy communications.
ECM works offensively by Jamming enemy radio transmissions
ECM works defensively by enhancing the radio wave transmission and/or reflection of a friendly unit and by interfering with missile homing transmissions
Radio wave jamming works both mechanically and electronically.
Mechanical jamming works by reflecting or re-reflecting radio wave energy back to the reciever to produce false target returns to enemy sensors
Electronic jamming works by transmitting radio waveforms that interfere with signals being recieved by enemy sensors, saturating the enemy reciever with highly concentrated electromagnetic field generation/signals.
Electronic jamming includes the production of higher wattage noise transmission than the enemy active radio transmissions.
Noise transmissions can include spot, sweep and barrage transmissions
Spot jamming occurs when a jamming transmission is concentrated on a single frequency
Sweep jamming occurs when a jamming transmission is shifted across multiple frequencies
Barrage Jamming occurs across multiple frequencies consequently. The noise generated is much less per frequency based on the total wattage transmission capabilities of the jamming unit
Jamming of radio frequencies can easily be prevented by using pre-set frequency hopping capability of radio waveform transmission and radio wavelength echo/reflection by the recieving unit
passive radar absorbent materials can be used to reduce the radio wavelength reflection of a friendly target
a HOJ (home on jamming) missile is a type of RF homing missile that tracks and kills the jamming transmitter
a ARM (Anti radar missile) is a type of RF homing missile that tracks and kills radio waveform transmitters
Jamming tactics include Self screening jammers (SSJ)that carry jamming equipment for it's own protection, Stand-off Jammers (SOJ) that remain outside enemy weapon ranges to screen friendly unit movements, and Stand forward jammers (SFJ) that are placed between enemy sensors and the attacking units. A SFJ is the most dangerous tactic for the jamming unit because the unit is the prime target for all enemy weapon systems and well within the capabilities of HOJ and ARM weapons.
Another form of ECM is besides white noise generation and frequency saturation is deception.
Deception tries to mimic a radio wavelength echo that misrepresents target range and coordinates either by rapidly repeated a recieved radio waveform to bring the target closer, delaying a radio wavelength echo to push the target further away, or enhancing the signal to make the target appear bigger (blip enhancement).
ECCM: Broadcast Power is the fundamental ECCM parameter. ECM vs ECCM is a power battle with the outcome going to the more powerful transmitter
Electrification of the air: The production of high power radio wavelengths produces an effect called a self limited electromagnetic field. All radio wavelenth transmitters produce electromagnetic fields based on how much power is being transmitted. Additionally, an electromagnetic field generator can produce an electromagnetic field of varying geometric properties (radial,spiral,polarized horizontal/vertical/angled) that can be projected from the electromagnetic field generator with a density/size based on the amount of wattage being used in the electromagnetic field.

[Vermaxx]

Are you asking a question or running a college disseration?

Thank you for a rundown on real ECM. MWO ECM is a 1.5 ton piece of equipment that makes affected mechs invisible to electronic sensors and lock on technologies.

[Vlad Ward]

If that was a college dissertation, he'd be thrown out of the department.

[Nonsense]

Did we really need a giant wall of unreadable text that has nothing to do with this game?

[HC Harlequin]

I dunno. do we?

[The Cheese]

Formatting, dude. Formatting.

[HC Harlequin]

I dunno. Something just doesn't seem right about an object that is producing a 180 meter radius omnidirectional electromagnetic field (boggle) also being somehow unsensible to any radio broadband/multifrequency receiver with additional telemetry designed to specifically track and coordinate radio wavelength transmission and echolocation.

[Vermaxx]

Weaponized lasers exist in battletech. Yes, the Star Wars project had some, but they work nothing like this.

Cannons in battletech get WORSE the bigger they are, in direct violation of the laws of ballistics.

Missiles in battletech do not home, cannot be counted on for anything LIKE realistic ranges, and are subpar damage.

The gauss is small enough to fit in a battle machine, and runs off a fusion engine the size of a car's power train.

For that matter, FUSION ENGINES THE SIZE OF A CAR'S POWER TRAIN EXIST.

This is some of the things about battletech that are wonky, and we haven't even gotten to their construction abilities or space faring technologies. Or even their lack of realistic communications devices. Nothing in BT is realistic. The ECM is a bubble of 'fk the other team.' That is not what it did in tabletop, but a lot of things in tabletop don't work here. Like hiding in the trees.

[HC Harlequin]

That would be roughly equivalent to whales not being able to hear someone banging 2 pieces of metal together underwater loud enough to produce a 100 decibal noise level at 1000 yards, or you not being able to see a 1000 watt halogen floodlight in the dark at 200 meters

[Psikez]

HC Harlequin, on 07 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

That would be roughly equivalent to whales not being able to hear someone banging 2 pieces of metal together underwater loud enough to produce a 100 decibal noise level at 1000 yards, or you not being able to see a 1000 watt halogen floodlight in the dark at 200 meters

Welcome to battletech I hope you enjoy your stay.

PS we got giant stompy robots with gauss rifles

[Vermaxx]

We have giant stompy robots with plasma/lightning guns and FRIKKIN AXES.
(well the axes probably won't show up but they're still here!)

Edited by Vermaxx, 07 December 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[HC Harlequin]

Well. a T3 fusion reacter capable of producing 20-25kWps isn't mind boggling to me. We would have the same thing now if we could figure out the magnetic bottle arrangement and the refinement of heavy water pure enough to maintain a T3 fusion reaction. The ballistic situation is also not that off for me if you make the assumption that the reduction in recoil is accomplished by adjusting the weapon to more of a recoilless operation and use of HESH or HEP rounds in the larger weapons and KEP rounds in the smaller ones. When you do have a device capable of producing 20kWps then adding a high freq unit to a rail gun with added capacitance and electromagnetic field generation capable of pushing a penetrator fast enough to blow through hardened ceramic is also not that big of a leap. Lazures.. I dunno. if you put enough power through a device capable of molecular and atomical excitement to the levels necessary to project a waveform hot enough to bake away layers of metal/ceramic at range.. I think you would still have to hold it on one spot better than it's exemplified in the current game.
hmm

Vermaxx, on 07 December 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

We have giant stompy robots with plasma/lightning guns and FRIKKIN AXES.
(well the axes probably won't show up but they're still here!)

Sad day... I too dream of crushing someones head

[Nightcrept]

HC Harlequin, on 07 December 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Well. a T3 fusion reacter capable of producing 20-25kWps isn't mind boggling to me. We would have the same thing now if we could figure out the magnetic bottle arrangement and the refinement of heavy water pure enough to maintain a T3 fusion reaction. The ballistic situation is also not that off for me if you make the assumption that the reduction in recoil is accomplished by adjusting the weapon to more of a recoilless operation and use of HESH or HEP rounds in the larger weapons and KEP rounds in the smaller ones. When you do have a device capable of producing 20kWps then adding a high freq unit to a rail gun with added capacitance and electromagnetic field generation capable of pushing a penetrator fast enough to blow through hardened ceramic is also not that big of a leap. Lazures.. I dunno. if you put enough power through a device capable of molecular and atomical excitement to the levels necessary to project a waveform hot enough to bake away layers of metal/ceramic at range.. I think you would still have to hold it on one spot better than it's exemplified in the current game.
hmm


Sad day... I too dream of crushing someones head

lol....most people are not going to understand what you are saying. Though I think you enjoy that.

It's easier to just say that our in game ecm does the job of a dozen or more types of real life ecm and is unrealistic. I.E the combinations would fry each other.

And yes the lazers would probably need to be held on target longer then we currently do in game to be effective at those power levels.

[Vlad Ward]

Pretty much. There are plenty of physicists on these boards. We generally don't feel the need to say "molecular and atomic excitement" when we talk about heating things up.

[HC Harlequin]

http://www.wired.com...military-laser/
http://www.nationald...litaryTest.aspx

OBTW... we finally broke 100kW lasers, electronically too.

We have the Small Lazure... now all we need is the sharks.

I was born polysyllabic. It's not my fault.. really.

[Jalak Bali]

Next will you be telling us that putting legs on tanks is an impractical and silly real world application?

[HC Harlequin]

And.. obtw.. if you have ever fired one of these...




You would not speak ill of any missile system again..

Single worst missile system evah... of all time

[Nightcrept]

HC Harlequin, on 07 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

And.. obtw.. if you have ever fired one of these...




You would not speak ill of any missile system again..

Single worst missile system evah... of all time

I've fired the iranian versions. They could be worse. Just rememeber not to fire one in a closed building or with a wall behind you.

[Cerlin]

Vermaxx, on 07 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Are you asking a question or running a college disseration?

Cant be a dissertation, was not formatted correctly at all. Where is the enter key my brother. I couldn't read more than 4 lines.

[Tempered]

I have to agree that putting out any type of em radiation kind of defeats the whole stealth thing. ECM really should be broken down into different equipment and roles.