69 replies to this topic

[Dawg]

This isnt new to online gaming like this. People used to induce lag in MW: Vengeance and MW: Mercenaries using the same "tactics"

[Clay Pigeon]

Urza Mechwalker, on 08 December 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

You are complainign that they used tactics to deceive you and defeat you using their braisn isntead of pure firepower? OO goid PREPOSTEROUS!!!!

It's not the 1990's anymore. Artificial lagging shouldn't give benefits in multiplayer games.

[Grits N Gravy]

It's a netcode and authentication issue. Hit detection is based on the position of mech on the server. This is done to prevent aim botting. They should though create some exceptions to this rule. Such as if the target's ping is greater than 200 than, the game defaults to client side hit detection only for that mech. You could also apply this rule to mechs moving over 105 kph and put an end to the jenner lag shield. But PGI isn't going to take this route anyway as outlined in command chair. Though they will have to come up with a solution to deal with extreme lag situations at some point.

[RG Notch]

Like a Sir, on 08 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Exactly that, thanks for posting your findings OP. As much as it would suck if more people did it (looking at you d bag steve), it might actually bump up the priority of fixing the damn net code if they do, I mean if you just emailed it to support, you'd probably just get a brush off... Still might be worth emailing the link to this thread their way, just to make sure they don't miss it.

Much better to post it so everyone can do it!

[aspect]

Urza Mechwalker, on 08 December 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

You are complainign that they used tactics to deceive you and defeat you using their braisn isntead of pure firepower? OO goid PREPOSTEROUS!!!!

...I don't think you read the post.

[TruePoindexter]

Soooo you basically introduced additional latency and are then shocked that people can't hit you because you're appearing almost a half second behind on their screen? Sorry but no amount of miracle networking code in the world will make that tenable.

[RockWolf]

Hahaha! nice one Obeast! I guess people can't lead shots.

[Bguk]

Posting this will not get the problem solved any quicker. I could be wrong and I'm ok with that. They have already stated in the Developr's section of the forum they are working on performance issues, bringing them to the forefront of their development. Posting this only gives people ideas and wastes time.

[Blark]

I concur with the op, I've made similar observations:

ECM is not the problem, but it made the problem worse.

ps: I wish we could have knockdowns back, even the old crappy ones; It would not solve the problem, but it would alleviate it.

[Tuhalu]

Yeah. Loads of people not paying attention here. The problem is not lag in general. It's variable lag/bad connections.

If you always have 300ms ping, you are not hard to kill because I just need to aim 0.3 seconds ahead of you. If you sometimes have 100ms ping and sometimes 500 ms ping, then I have to guess where you will be.

I play from Australia and I always wondered what people were complaining about because I was able to compensate for lag against 95% of opponents. People with really bad connections (not bad lag) must be the evil boogiemen that are hard to kill.

[Beo Vulf]

Obeast, on 08 December 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

First off, this is not a rant, brag or b!tch thread. This is merely showing what I believe to be an underlying issue with the game. I've been killed by variable lag lights in the past and it has always gotten to me. I consider myself an above average shooter and for the life of me there would always be some Light that would just be un-hittable for me. I discovered why one match, variable ping. After dying early one match to a Light that I couldn't hit with lasers consistently. I decided to check his ping the entire match. What I discovered was his ping jumped from 55ms up to as much as 400ms quite frequently. This made leading and getting a "bead" on him very very difficult.
Fast forward to ECM, and the Raven. I decided to put my theory to the test, without really having to worry about Streakitties or LRMs. I grabbed a Raven 3l, strapped an XL255, streak and 3xML and of course an ECM. I fired up Netflix, jumped in a PUG with the aforementioned mech and proceeded to test. Well needless to say it was ridiculous, I felt nearly invincible. I was called quite a few bad names, and admittedly I deserved it. I can be a **** sometimes.
Somehow in the match my team 7 mech kills, the enemy team had 5 and we still lost. The enemy team had one Catapult than ran off to hide, So I was forced to guard base until time ran out for fear of it being capped (it was so close to being capped!)
Also a disclaimer, I know not the most dmg done, not saying I am great, not saying they sucked, I am not calling for nerfs. What I am saying is, with a little lag, ECM, 1999 netcode and a fast mech, the game...well it just needs to be addressed.
Here is a screenshot:

Should put this in the suggestions, or command chair forums. The devs may get to the issue sooner, rather than later.

[xDark]

Oh look, it's me.

No, the Catapult did not run off to hide. He only had LRMs left, so he was trying to get behind you so he could actually shoot you since you had your ECM up. I was the one who suggested the strategy to him, since there were no other options. Obviously it didn't work though.

You called him a coward, and I even told you that you had no idea what he was doing, and I was right. He was not hiding.

Honestly, I didn't even know we won. I was really surprised to see this because I was sure we lost that match...

And yes, this is a great example of how ECM is a bit overpowered. Our side had no ECM, so when you guys came through you completely overwhelmed us.

Edited by xDark, 08 December 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[Lin Shai]

SomersetStriker, on 08 December 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

The internet is very complex. Servers in specific locations, players from this side of the world connecting to the same server from that side of the world, with internet pipelines running on the floor of the ocean, with... its amazing that it even works and its a wonder why they haven't been able to fix benefits? It has changed but they are still there.

The cool-aid is strong in this one!

Apparently PGI is using the 1999 internet. Because the modern internet really doesn't have these issues. You'll note that except for players coming across the trans-atlantic link, ping times are generally in the 20ms - 60ms range. Certainly under 100ms.

And aside from that, competent engineers at other gaming companies have figured out predictive algorithms and UDP . You really don't see this type of thing as the norm in any other game released in the last decade (unless it's also horribad). It's only if there's actually a (transient) problem on the internet causing it. If you can't make hit detection and course correction work with < 100ms ping time, you have a real problem.

Edited by Lin Shai, 08 December 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Urza Mechwalker, on 08 December 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

You are complainign that they used tactics to deceive you and defeat you using their braisn isntead of pure firepower? OO goid PREPOSTEROUS!!!!

Your post has really nothing to do with anything the OP wrote. Did you post in the wrong thread? O_o

[SippySips]

This issue is not exclusive to PGI.

If I find the time I will do some proper net testing with some software, just to provide some actually data.

Edited: said something I shouldn't have...

Edited by Shortcircuit42, 08 December 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Zero Neutral]

Obeast, on 08 December 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

First off, this is not a rant, brag or b!tch thread. This is merely showing what I believe to be an underlying issue with the game. I've been killed by variable lag lights in the past and it has always gotten to me. I consider myself an above average shooter and for the life of me there would always be some Light that would just be un-hittable for me. I discovered why one match, variable ping. After dying early one match to a Light that I couldn't hit with lasers consistently. I decided to check his ping the entire match. What I discovered was his ping jumped from 55ms up to as much as 400ms quite frequently. This made leading and getting a "bead" on him very very difficult.
Fast forward to ECM, and the Raven. I decided to put my theory to the test, without really having to worry about Streakitties or LRMs. I grabbed a Raven 3l, strapped an XL255, streak and 3xML and of course an ECM. I fired up Netflix, jumped in a PUG with the aforementioned mech and proceeded to test. Well needless to say it was ridiculous, I felt nearly invincible. I was called quite a few bad names, and admittedly I deserved it. I can be a **** sometimes.
Somehow in the match my team 7 mech kills, the enemy team had 5 and we still lost. The enemy team had one Catapult than ran off to hide, So I was forced to guard base until time ran out for fear of it being capped (it was so close to being capped!)
Also a disclaimer, I know not the most dmg done, not saying I am great, not saying they sucked, I am not calling for nerfs. What I am saying is, with a little lag, ECM, 1999 netcode and a fast mech, the game...well it just needs to be addressed.
Here is a screenshot:

[pic]

Known issues are known.

[xRaeder]

My God people. The solution to these problems is so obvious it hurts me to think about it sometimes.

Nothing that PGI can do to this game as far as netcode goes can fix variable ping and the lagshield. If I am running around with 400ms I will of COURSE be hard to hit. It has been that way since Doom on dialup and will always be that way.

The ONLY thing that PGI can do is kick people with high pings. But this is self defeating because not only does it penalize the person with high ping it also penalizes his team.

Which is precisely why the only way to solve the lagshield, pugs vs premades, high pings, and afkers is to actually make server browsers so people can go where they don't have high ping and those that exploit to get them will be kicked by automated latency thresholds.

[SippySips]

xRaeder, on 08 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

My God people. The solution to these problems is so obvious it hurts me to think about it sometimes.

Nothing that PGI can do to this game as far as netcode goes can fix variable ping and the lagshield. If I am running around with 400ms I will of COURSE be hard to hit. It has been that way since Doom on dialup and will always be that way.

The ONLY thing that PGI can do is kick people with high pings. But this is self defeating because not only does it penalize the person with high ping it also penalizes his team.

Which is precisely why the only way to solve the lagshield, pugs vs premades, high pings, and afkers is to actually make server browsers so people can go where they don't have high ping and those that exploit to get them will be kicked by automated latency thresholds.

Connection matching and localised servers. All very valid points.

[Lin Shai]

xRaeder, on 08 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Which is precisely why the only way to solve the lagshield, pugs vs premades, high pings, and afkers is to actually make server browsers so people can go where they don't have high ping and those that exploit to get them will be kicked by automated latency thresholds.

This isn't a Peer-to-Peer game or one where you can "rent" a server and host it yourself. All the servers are hosted by PGI and are in exactly the same place, and your ping to them will also be exactly the same.

And that's ignoring that, again, their current problems have nothing to do with latency times. Unless you're playing with non-US players everyone's ping is < 100ms (barring a localized problem at someone's ISP or the route).

Edited by Lin Shai, 08 December 2012 - 03:26 PM.

[Obeast]

xDark, on 08 December 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Oh look, it's me.

No, the Catapult did not run off to hide. He only had LRMs left, so he was trying to get behind you so he could actually shoot you since you had your ECM up. I was the one who suggested the strategy to him, since there were no other options. Obviously it didn't work though.

You called him a coward, and I even told you that you had no idea what he was doing, and I was right. He was not hiding.

Honestly, I didn't even know we won. I was really surprised to see this because I was sure we lost that match...

And yes, this is a great example of how ECM is a bit overpowered. Our side had no ECM, so when you guys came through you completely overwhelmed us.

The reason he was called a coward....to rattle his cage into making a foolish mistake. He didn't take the bait, and that was well played. He stayed well out of sight and did what he needed to do survive.