78 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

I just started playing the game for the first time after many months of only watching vids etc and I shocked at how badly I'm doing.

Even after days of playing I just cant seem to amount to anything.

Granted I am playing from Australia but can this really matter that much or is it mostly something I can do to improve? I am not a gaming noob by any means in fact I was very good in all the past online warrior games.

Here is a typical game for me, I jump in my any mech, usually one of of my founders mechs, say an Atlas, see any enemy, do all I can from a distance with the LRMS, try to stay behind cover as much as possible, for minutes even, some hit, some hit walls, some miss, it seems normal compared to what I see spectating.

Eventually as I run into enemies I start Pummeling. 4 Goddam medium lasers all on target into anything I see, almost every time AC 20 or gauss at the same time any change I get, cant tell if they are registering damage but half the time they seem to hit, repeat, rinse, again again, keep my concentration UP, Pummel all I can. My 4 lasers are usually spot on. Its hard work staying on target and pummeling away but it seems not get me nowhere.

End result is I fire as much as I can into anything I see but Im usually dead in under 20 seconds. Sometimes I go from full health to almost dead in a few shots whereas I need to plough away at mech for 2-3 minutes and still I dont get a kill. I only get this chance because they are often shooting at someone else.

Dont get me wrong Im not running up first and getting killed, I'm usually the last one there so the battle has already started and there are friends about. On top of that the enemies are already weakened, be even easier to kill them, but its not. They take shot after shot from me but wont die. And talking big targets but Ravens, jenners, hunchies whatever.

But I get that Atlas is a big target so I try myself get in a jenner commando etc.

This time I'm dead almost instantly :S


So I try completely hide stay back for a 1 on 1. Eventually someone gets close.

It doesn't matter what it is, Jenner or dragon or catapult I come out dead.

I cant understand it as I'm landing 4 medium lasers, clean shots, plus a gauss in them or anything else I have. All close combat up and personal, but they will be a mech with 1/4 the firepower and just tear me up. My mech goes from full health to red to black in a matter of shots.

In the whole 3 days Ive been playing I've only had 1 kill my KDR is 0.04. Its so rare it was like an eclipse. To be honest it was all but dead when I went up agaisnt it will full health. Still got me to 1/4 health. Then I think someone farted in my direction and I died.

I'm far from a sore looser but it does get frustrating.

Pirahna has decided that fast light mechs with ECM + Streaks have an "I Win Button". If you want to start killing, start looking into them. It does get boring playing those builds after a while because the only thing you have to fear is you getting to aggressive and dying. But basically you can come in, strafe, own a LRM/Streak build immediately, and move across the map unseen.

[Timelordwho]

By the way, here is the rough difficulty of using various weapon systems from easiest to hardest

Streak SRMS
Pulse lasers
brawling lasers(mid/hvy)
LRMS
Gauss
Small lasers (due to engagement range)
SRMS
Autocannons
Long range heavy energy weapons
Streaks & LRMs when ECM is afoot

[Timelordwho]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Kivin. I'll certainly save up and try your build. I'm after a simple weapon grouping, easy aim, up close brawling Atlas build. Preferably the Founders version. But one thing That I have to raise you mentioned. I can barely register a hit on a entire moving mech properly. All the carnage, high ping, warping, low fps, etc that is going on makes hard to land a shot on an atlas let alone pick out a spot on a fast moving mech!

The game certainly is fun though. It doesn't require you to have a KDR above 1 to be so which is a good thing.

I use at atlas for a few reasons. Contrary to what is being said here it seems to be easier to handle for me. If i get in a light mech I have all the above issues in addition to having it all move much much faster in addition to getting killed almost instantly. I do move at full speed non stop and try stay behind big enemies. I still will get plastered from somewhere real quick.

The tips are helping though. I think I killed one more mech haha. Its tough saving up money though. Still tuck under 1 mill. I had a over a mil before but I started experimenting switching back forwarth between the standard and ferro fibrous Armour and I didn't realize it takes money AGAIN to downgrade. I though I was just switching between the two lol.

Will try the TAG thing.


So far aside from case I have only had weapons and heatsinks on my Atlas. I will try AMS too. I seem to get torn apart by missles a fair bit. But I fear adding too much extras will take away from my punch up close which is already low enough.

Don't get ferro, get endosteel, sometimes.

Ferro is bad.

[Elfman]

Can I suggest you get on TeamSpeak such as Comstar listed in http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/ there's lots of people on there willing to help out new players. With this game its a steep learning curve but being able to talk to others and get advice and watch them play helps a lot.

[Arcturious]

I'll reply to this to give you some advice from another Aussie.

As others have said, you will see your "Target Reticule" flash red when the server determines you have hit the target.

This means that you will need to start shooting where the mech will be, and not where it is. On your screen, if an enemy mech is going from left to right you need to shoot a few inches in front of it.

I find that if you take a Medium Laser, or Large Laser and use this by itself to "feel out" where the target is on the server. Shoot the laser on the leading edge of the mech. Then drag it out into thin air where the mech will soon be passing into. The reticule will eventually turn red. You now have a rough estimation of where the mech currently is.

Now to compensate for firing lag if you're using Ballistics twitch your reticule a tiny bit further ahead before firing. This will add the leading distance the ballistics need to hit where the mech will be in the next second.

Over time, you will eventually start getting a feel for how the lag works and compensate faster each time.

Also finally, take into account the direction of travel of the enemy before shooting. Usually it is best to make sure they are committed to a straight line. If they are zig zagging, hedge your bets by shooting down the middle. You won't be able to aim or compensate, it is just not possible as the server and you are too far apart.

Good luck and keep at it. You are already in front of the curve by at least trying to improve and not just giving up and flaming on the forums!

Edited by Arcturious, 09 December 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Timelordwho]

Arcturious, on 09 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

I find that if you take a Medium Laser, or Large Laser and use this by itself to "feel out" where the target is on the server. Shoot the laser on the leading edge of the mech. Then drag it out into thin air where the mech will soon be passing into. The reticule will eventually turn red. You now have a rough estimation of where the mech currently is.

A Tag will do that at 450m, costs no heat, and can be constantly fired and minimal tonnage. It's also not as visible for your opponent, so they won't be as likely to actively dodge your incoming shot. And heck it's a targeting laser.It's even useful with laser since you can find the hitpoint then turn your main lasers on, slicing across at the same velocity as the mech, meaning you get a full hit instead of a 50-75% hit like usual.

[Rhent]

Timelordwho, on 09 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Are you joking?

LRMs are great support weapons to engage with if you are otherwise out of range. Assuming limited ECM.

LRM's are fine with ECM, as long as you are fighting at range, have Jump Jets and an avenue of escape where the ECM lights can't reach you. You need TAG and other team maters countering their ECM.

[Kivin]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Kivin. I'll certainly save up and try your build. I'm after a simple weapon grouping, easy aim, up close brawling Atlas build. Preferably the Founders version. But one thing That I have to raise you mentioned. I can barely register a hit on a entire moving mech properly. All the carnage, high ping, warping, low fps, etc that is going on makes hard to land a shot on an atlas let alone pick out a spot on a fast moving mech!

The game certainly is fun though. It doesn't require you to have a KDR above 1 to be so which is a good thing.

I use at atlas for a few reasons. Contrary to what is being said here it seems to be easier to handle for me. If i get in a light mech I have all the above issues in addition to having it all move much much faster in addition to getting killed almost instantly. I do move at full speed non stop and try stay behind big enemies. I still will get plastered from somewhere real quick.

The tips are helping though. I think I killed one more mech haha. Its tough saving up money though. Still tuck under 1 mill. I had a over a mil before but I started experimenting switching back forwarth between the standard and ferro fibrous Armour and I didn't realize it takes money AGAIN to downgrade. I though I was just switching between the two lol.

Will try the TAG thing.


So far aside from case I have only had weapons and heatsinks on my Atlas. I will try AMS too. I seem to get torn apart by missles a fair bit. But I fear adding too much extras will take away from my punch up close which is already low enough.

The build I posted couldn't be simpler grouping. Put the lasers on 1 and the SRMs on 2. Since you're having so much trouble with performance issues (lag, et al.) I'd concentrate on lasers as much as possible. Which is why I put a pair of larges on that Atlas. You could actually go with four lasers (2 large, 2 med, 4 med, or even 4 large) but the centre torso lasers are more difficult to use, which is why I gave you missiles.

Nothing wrong with the Atlas. It has a good armor buffer so a stray crit wont KO you. And the lower top speed makes it more difficult to get yourself stuck.

[MrPenguin]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Tp whoever said don't use LRMS couldn't be further from what I have found. LRMS get the bulk of my damage. If I go in with no LRMS I do like 30 damage with an atlas as opposed to 130 or so

Stop using LRM's bro 0-o

[Arcturious]

Apologies, I hadn't read whole thread before posting. For the Atlas and using LRM you would be best taking the TAG and using it to get a lock. This is even more relevant when you are getting used to targeting and leading.

You will find your LRM damage increases and your aim with Ballistics and lasers will get (not better) but more damaging.

I myself prefer for most of my builds the laser, as I usually play brawlers with only 1-2 energy slots. In this instance, some damage is better than none from the TAG, and the laser gives you more "feedback" on your hits than the TAG I feel. On my Cat and Cent-D though, it's TAG all the way!

The other thing to mention which is critical when playing from AU is using CHAINFIRE.

I forgot to mention this before, but your damage will go through the roof when using chain fire mode (default is backspace). What this will do is instead of firing all 4 lasers for example, it will cycle through them one by one.

So the first laser will find the target, then the second burns on the entire duration, third picks up where second left off etc. This has an added benefit of reducing overall heat also. The drawback is it takes longer to dish all the damage, with the trade off of a greater percentage of that damage applying.

The best of both worlds is to set your weapon groups up so that you can trigger all of your lasers on say RMB (Right Mouse) and chain fire them on another side button if you have one, or a keyboard etc. I use Mouse 3 which is where my thumb rests. So I can hold down chain fire if needed. Then when they shutdown, run in a straight line etc I hit either Alpha or just all lasers when it's guaranteed to hit.

Edited by Arcturious, 09 December 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[Pr8Dator]

Getting **********? That's what happens when you stomp into a fight in an Atlas... LOL!

[BigJim]

@L33t; Roughneck is a very competent player and has a lot of experience with getting newer players up to speed.

Just because he says that Hunchie is a good "learning" mech doesn't mean it's gimped - it really will improve your play immensely.



Example of using a standard Hunchback build in MWO pugtastic play for demo purposes.
No showing off here - my pug team lost, and no basic tactics either, I just entered the match without even a general idea of what I would do, just trying to show the weapons at work on different targets, and to try & demonstrate the lead-time on some fast movers.

The idea is to show how a basic "beginner build" can be used to decent effect with all the weapons working together, and how this build can help you focus on using the arm/torso reticles in different situations.

Sometimes all the weapons are fired together for a full 35 alpha-strike, and at other times only some are fired.

At other points still, I ****-up and use the wrong weapon in the wrong situation.
Hopefully the vid shows all these situations too.

Build is;
* HBK 4H (could use a 4G)
* AC20
* 4x Tonnes ammo
* 2x Med-Laser (arms)
* 1x Med-Laser (head)
* Std 220 Engine
* Maxed-out armour
* Endo Steel
.* .and the rest of the tonnage used in double heatsinks



Like all the copy/paste tactics threads say, don't use the above Hunchie to take on mechs 1v1 (like I do and fail at in this vid) since you'll likley take so much damage finishing him off it'll leave you as an easy kill for the next enemy that comes along - See the double-trouble Atlases at the end of the vid.

Instead, pair up with an Atlas or another Hunchie or something (explicitly agree with the other pilot in teamchat during the countdown so you both know to stick together), and both of you focus a target - switch - target - repeat.

[KingKalvin]

1.) Team Work. Individual kills will be so rare that you'd die first before you can kill a mech solo.

2.) Focus Fire and always stick with a group. This will lessen the chance of you getting hit or focused on.

3.) Learn what play style suits you best. Do you like to be a tank but have good aim? Do you like to be fast and back stab the enemies? Do you want to do damage from range?

4.) Never play selfish. If you PUG almost all the time then you'll have to give way to other players. Do not do what you think is best only for you.

5.) Be decisive and always be confident in what you are doing. I see a lot of players charging in a battle then turning around and expose their behinds against the enemy. Decide on what you're gonna do and stick with it.

6.) Remove the mindset of "getting a kill" every game. Kills will come when you get comfortable with what you're playing with. Team play, focus firing, confidence will get you kills in the long run.

7.) Have fun!

[LordBraxton]

Just stay as close as possible to as many allies as possible

[Kaspirikay]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

I just started playing the game for the first time after many months of only watching vids etc and I shocked at how badly I'm doing. Even after days of playing I just cant seem to amount to anything. Granted I am playing from Australia but can this really matter that much or is it mostly something I can do to improve? I am not a gaming noob by any means in fact I was very good in all the past online warrior games. Here is a typical game for me, I jump in my any mech, usually one of of my founders mechs, say an Atlas, see any enemy, do all I can from a distance with the LRMS, try to stay behind cover as much as possible, for minutes even, some hit, some hit walls, some miss, it seems normal compared to what I see spectating. Eventually as I run into enemies I start Pummeling. 4 Goddam medium lasers all on target into anything I see, almost every time AC 20 or gauss at the same time any change I get, cant tell if they are registering damage but half the time they seem to hit, repeat, rinse, again again, keep my concentration UP, Pummel all I can. My 4 lasers are usually spot on. Its hard work staying on target and pummeling away but it seems not get me nowhere. End result is I fire as much as I can into anything I see but Im usually dead in under 20 seconds. Sometimes I go from full health to almost dead in a few shots whereas I need to plough away at mech for 2-3 minutes and still I dont get a kill. I only get this chance because they are often shooting at someone else. Dont get me wrong Im not running up first and getting killed, I'm usually the last one there so the battle has already started and there are friends about. On top of that the enemies are already weakened, be even easier to kill them, but its not. They take shot after shot from me but wont die. And talking big targets but Ravens, jenners, hunchies whatever. But I get that Atlas is a big target so I try myself get in a jenner commando etc. This time I'm dead almost instantly :S So I try completely hide stay back for a 1 on 1. Eventually someone gets close. It doesn't matter what it is, Jenner or dragon or catapult I come out dead. I cant understand it as I'm landing 4 medium lasers, clean shots, plus a gauss in them or anything else I have. All close combat up and personal, but they will be a mech with 1/4 the firepower and just tear me up. My mech goes from full health to red to black in a matter of shots. In the whole 3 days Ive been playing I've only had 1 kill my KDR is 0.04. Its so rare it was like an eclipse. To be honest it was all but dead when I went up agaisnt it will full health. Still got me to 1/4 health. Then I think someone farted in my direction and I died. I'm far from a sore looser but it does get frustrating.

Go ECM Commando With 3 streaks and a ML. Its what I'm mostly running now. I'm playing with 300 ping.

[Rex Budman]

WhiteRabbit, on 09 December 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

if your reticule doesn't turn red you arent hitting them--> try to lead them some more, maybe that'll help

just because it looks like you hit them doesnt mean you actually do.. especially with a high ping.

Dude my reticule turns red when I am walking around looking at tree's...

Poor guy doesn't want to aim in front of him to his a mech thats behind him. Surely you can understand that?

[N0MAD]

As an Aussie you have several things you need to understand an counter for atm.
1.. High ping. you goto learn to lead, that is something you can overcome.
2..Bad netcode, cant be overcome.
3..Packet loss, Australia has roughly 20 mill population spread over one of the largest continents on the planet, we have a very good internet with modern equipment and good lines(soon whole country will be optic fiber networked) we have nice clean pipes that bring in data nicely. However our packets are sent to places that are heavily populated and with very ordinary equipment and lines, quite alot of our packets are lost in cyberspace.I find that for me Euros are the worst, i have on many occations and games tested this with a close Euro friend. we both get same equipment stand of at a range and fire at each other, no movement or evading, he outdamages me everytime, the more people and more action happening around us the more difference in the damage comparison. This is understandable the huge Euro population cramed into an area the size of one of our states with conections routed thru some of the oldest equipment and lines.
There are a few things you can do,optamise you connection via packet size sent, and DONT use big Alpha shots, big groups of weapons is not good, but overall theres is not much you can really do about it but test and addapt to a loadout you see works best of a bad lot.

[LarkinOmega]

Here is a shotgun-Brawler setup for your Atlas-D. All you have to do is point in the general direction of moving targets and saturate the area with fire. Note, this is a very low kill setup, but you'll find that once you get used to it 500+ damage matches will be the norm.


Chassis Name: Atlas
Model Name: AS7-D
Variant Name: 2xLB10X

Engine Cost: 1,200,000 C-Bills
Heat Sink Cost: 96,000 C-Bills
Armor Cost: 180,288 C-Bills
Weapons Cost: 2,240,000 C-Bills
Equipment Cost: 56,000 C-Bills
Ammo Cost: 135,980 C-Bills

Engine: 300 Standard Engine
Internal Type: Standard Internals
Armor Type: Standard Armor
Heat Sinks: 18 (12) Double Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 100.00
Speed: 52.2 kph
Armor Total: 560
Alpha Strike Damage: 70.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 41.52%
Firepower: 22.10 dps
Heat Efficiency: 43.98%
Effective Range of Loadout: 270m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 64/84
Right Rear Torso: 20/84
Center Torso: 100/124
Center Rear Torso: 24/124
Left Torso: 64/84
Left Rear Torso: 20/84
Right Arm: 62/68
Left Arm: 62/68
Right Leg: 63/84
Left Leg: 63/84

Weapons Locations
Right Arm:
Medium Laser
Left Arm:
Medium Laser
Right Torso:
(2) LBX10
Left Torso:
(2) SRM6
Center Torso:
(2) Medium Laser

Heat Sink Locations
Right Arm: 2

Left Arm: 2

Left Torso: 2


Equipment Locations
Left Arm:
AMS


Ammo Locations
Left Torso:
(2) SRM Ammo
Head:
AMS Ammo
Right Leg:
(2) LBX10 Ammo
Left Leg:
(2) LBX10 Ammo

File created using MWO Mechbay

[l33tworks]

Ok Thanks for all the feedback guys .

I'm trying to post some videos of playing but the fraps files are really huge to upload and for some reason you tube seems to be stuck on preparing to upload.

I tried the Med laser, LBX10 and SRM6 build posted above I didn't seem to do too well. I don't think I hit much with SRMS and the LBX felt like throwing sand at the enemy. Kept shooting people over and over with but they never fell. I feel like it was worse than my concentrated Laser and gauss build,

I will keep trying suggestions but its hard to save up cash especially since I have wasted so much money trying out various Armour configurations. I realized WAY way too late that switching between ferro firbours and standard Armour charges you c bills each time you swap back and forward. Is this normal? I thought once you own something you can fit it and refit it as many times as you want?? :S

I got a few questions. Whats the point of freeing up weight in a mech via any means if you cant allocate it to more Armour? Same with using a slower engine, why fit it if I cant do anything useful with the trade off like allocate it to more armour or weapons?

This suits my playing style most, slow and tank. But it seems the game allows you to go make optimizations when going for a less armor and faster than standard mech but not slower and more weapons. I thought they already balanced this issue by making slower engine not only means slower top speed but slower moving, aiming accelerating etc and the fact slower engine forces you to use more heatsinks(lol What?). Why make it on top of this you cant do anything with the extra weight you now have spare?

I find myself having tons and tons of free weight left on my builds which I think will suit me, but never enough to do anything I want with it. I spent so much money on slower than standard engines to find there is no good build. In fact they are all worse than a normal variant as your left with all this free weight but nothing to do with.

I understand there is only a certain amount of Total Armour a mech can have regardless of weight but I have not reached that either by the games admission because I can see 70/120 etc and I still cant add more armor to a section I want.

On top of this there is "available" armour, so I have also made plenty of "available" armour slots leftover because I took them out of my legs but I can only put them back in the legs? So I have plenty of overall tons left. Plenty of "available" Armour to spread around I have taken out of the legs, but still I can do nothing with it except add them back to the legs
What gives? I don't want 80 80 in my legs but the game forces me to put do so. Whereas my top is not even close to full and overall weight of the mech even further away from full.

Edited by l33tworks, 11 December 2012 - 04:29 AM.

[Odanan]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

I just started playing the game for the first time after many months of only watching vids etc and I shocked at how badly I'm doing.

Even after days of playing I just cant seem to amount to anything.

Granted I am playing from Australia but can this really matter that much or is it mostly something I can do to improve? I am not a gaming noob by any means in fact I was very good in all the past online warrior games.

Here is a typical game for me, I jump in my any mech, usually one of of my founders mechs, say an Atlas, see any enemy, do all I can from a distance with the LRMS, try to stay behind cover as much as possible, for minutes even, some hit, some hit walls, some miss, it seems normal compared to what I see spectating.

Eventually as I run into enemies I start Pummeling. 4 Goddam medium lasers all on target into anything I see, almost every time AC 20 or gauss at the same time any change I get, cant tell if they are registering damage but half the time they seem to hit, repeat, rinse, again again, keep my concentration UP, Pummel all I can. My 4 lasers are usually spot on. Its hard work staying on target and pummeling away but it seems not get me nowhere.

End result is I fire as much as I can into anything I see but Im usually dead in under 20 seconds. Sometimes I go from full health to almost dead in a few shots whereas I need to plough away at mech for 2-3 minutes and still I dont get a kill. I only get this chance because they are often shooting at someone else.

Dont get me wrong Im not running up first and getting killed, I'm usually the last one there so the battle has already started and there are friends about. On top of that the enemies are already weakened, be even easier to kill them, but its not. They take shot after shot from me but wont die. And talking big targets but Ravens, jenners, hunchies whatever.

But I get that Atlas is a big target so I try myself get in a jenner commando etc.

This time I'm dead almost instantly :S


So I try completely hide stay back for a 1 on 1. Eventually someone gets close.

It doesn't matter what it is, Jenner or dragon or catapult I come out dead.

I cant understand it as I'm landing 4 medium lasers, clean shots, plus a gauss in them or anything else I have. All close combat up and personal, but they will be a mech with 1/4 the firepower and just tear me up. My mech goes from full health to red to black in a matter of shots.

In the whole 3 days Ive been playing I've only had 1 kill my KDR is 0.04. Its so rare it was like an eclipse. To be honest it was all but dead when I went up agaisnt it will full health. Still got me to 1/4 health. Then I think someone farted in my direction and I died.

I'm far from a sore looser but it does get frustrating.

First, customize your mech for heat and range efficiency. In your Atlas, don't have SRMs and LRMs at the same time: choose one and have doubles. If using LRMs in the Atlas (not recommended), you can direct your mech to a more long range fire support role, swapping the AC/20 for a Gauss and (maybe) the Medium Lasers for Large Lasers. I usually prefer a short range Atlas, with dual SRM6 and Medium (Pulse) Lasers. The important is to know your mech and your role.

You also need to stick with your team and find the opportunities to engage.
The Atlas is not a skirmisher. Staying behind a rock all the match will only make you die alone when your team is dead (and yes, they will probably die because they couldn't count on you the whole match).