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Frustrating Patch - Player Starting To Leave


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#1 GoriKarafong

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

I feared it before and finally it started to come true, that most of the 8vs8 matches are gamed by extrem tactics. After playing against lots of teams with 4-6 ECM Atlas or 4-6 ECM Scouts going for extrem Def oder extrem basecap, it seems that our team sees the need to go for those tactis as well to have a chance. Even so we win with those extrem tactis.

I get bored and frustrated. This is not Mechwarrior anymore this is unbalanced and the worst possible patch by far yet. Even the LRM disaster with introducing Artemis wasnt that bad. It just needed a couple of days for most player to see how to unblance the game.

Finally you got at least me to a point where I stop playing it and regreting to spend money in it.

So if you want you can call me lame, a bad player, or whatever you want. I dont care about all you clever players who know everything better and are better than the rest. This game just got worse from my perspective and I dont see PGI doing anything about it or accepting the fact that they did some very bad judgment.

Gori

EDIT:

If I see this feedback of PGI to ECM in PC Gamer:

Quote

I also asked Inouye if Piranha is happy with the recent implementation of the ECM (electronic counter-measures) system to MWO, which allows some mechs to equip radar and lock-on jamming equipment. "The effect [of ECM] is working as intended and forces players to play a lot smarter," he said. "Specialized Mechs still have their place on the battlefield but they are going to need the assistance of their teammates to succeed. If you plan on taking specialized Mech into a match, plan wisely and have alternate weapon systems that will help you with mid to long-range combat. People are thinking we need to severely 'nerf' the ECM. This is not the case at all. There is already 1 counter-ECM item in the game (TAG), and likely there will be a couple more involving modules and weapon effects.


I feel PGI does not understand the problem.

Sadly if I try to explain it. See here

Edited by GoriKarafong, 16 December 2012 - 01:40 PM.


#2 Konner Duko

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

i agree with you on this. the ecm has just made the game useless unless you are playing a alpha sticking build that is ment to run up close and blow the enemy out. there is to much of that right now and it doesn't even feel like a tactict based game. no strat other than hide under ecm and charge their base is being used at this point.

i am seriously comteplating leaving myself out of frustration.

#3 Cola

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

The devs have been blinded by all the cool toys in the BT universe and don't seam to care that most of them are broken off the table. ECM is an advanced item that didn't need to be pushed into the game this early or in its curent form.

#4 sycocys

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:22 PM

I remember reading "Bring back 8v8" sooooo much, even though most of the players knew that this is exactly what was going to happen ECM or not. Makes me laugh a bit - you wanted it before matchmaking was fully sorted, complained enough they put it in before matchmaking was completely sorted, just going to have to deal with it now until matchmaking is sorted. Sorry mates, this is just what the "I want it NOW" attitude gets you. I understand your frustration, but don't really feel bad about it at the same time.

As far as ecm goes as far as I've seen it really does very little to unseat anything but pure boat builds, if you practice even okay levels of teamwork, it's easily defeated and puts the team now without ecm in a scramble. If anything I've seen quite improved tactical play overall with the inclusion of ecm, granted I wasn't one of the ones shouting for 8v8, but pug play has significantly improved from my perspective. I've also seen a lot more tag players, and as soon as you get guys to split off, lock away to your hearts content.

The new game mode should be out in the next patch for everyone to play about in at least. Should be pretty cool to test that out and see how it goes I think!

#5 Redoxin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

View Postsycocys, on 09 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

I remember reading "Bring back 8v8" sooooo much, even though most of the players knew that this is exactly what was going to happen ECM or not. Makes me laugh a bit - you wanted it before matchmaking was fully sorted, complained enough they put it in before matchmaking was completely sorted, just going to have to deal with it now until matchmaking is sorted. Sorry mates, this is just what the "I want it NOW" attitude gets you. I understand your frustration, but don't really feel bad about it at the same time.

You and the OP make it sound as if one was forced to play 8v8 now.

We did only get an additional OPTION with the 8v8. Apart from that nothing changed. Dont like 8v8? Well dont play it. Check the right box when making a group and everything will be like before.
Guess this is the perfect example showing that people will always whine, no matter what.

#6 sycocys

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

First off I have no problems with where the game is at or going. I do have some problem with the "I want it now" base of players that shout, fit, and cry their way into something being implemented halfway so they can shout, fit, and cry about how broken it is though.

To me - 8v8 essentially forces you to be on teamchat, which isn't fully operational in the game, and I don't care to go searching for teams elsewhere so I straight pug drop unless I catch a few friends online to semi organize drop with. When more of these things are patched into the game (chat/team building/voice) then I'll start to play around with them, until then I have little interest in it.

#7 Tesunie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

I have to agree. ECM changed the game for the better, but now everyone has jumped onto the ECM wagon and it's all "stay as a group and cap!" Or some such stuff.

I don't know about others, but I still tend to play scout in my Cicada (without ECM), as it's intended. I've been known to even call out targets and where the enemy is heading. What path they are taking and where on the grid they are through that wonderful team chat. The ECM blob moving around tends to ignore me, crash into the enemy ECMed blob, and I'm left alone to try and fend for myself on the outskirt or rushing into the blob to try and help.

ECM is nice, but I'm really hating how much it's being used. In the books, it was so hard and expensive to come by/maintain, it was almost never used. The fact that so many is being used is just... sad.

And for those people who whine and complain that ECM is too strong because it blocks target sharing (besides the LRM users, whom I feel their pain and understand), use the heat sensors on your mech (pressing H). It wont work on a map like Causic, but I tend to see and snipe the enemy long before they even susspect I am there. They are all "I'm ECMed. No one can OH MY GOSH! SOMEONES SHOOTING ME! WHERE ARE THEY!" Though, I have seen some people find me and yes, my snipping would be better with ECM as then they can't just look in my direction and "detect me", but it should be used as a helpful aid, not as a tactic for the whole team to live or die by.

ECM's role on the field should run more like this:
An Atlas would have it to help hide it's presence on the field till it's in possition to attack. Maybe have a couple escorts to create a heavy hitting surprise ambush.
On lights as an advance scouting force, useful for scouting enemy positions with lower risk of being detected. It's also suppose to be useful in permitting said scouts to take down lone senteries by cutting their communications so word about their precense doesn't go out.

ECM was never intended to be:
Having a light escorting a whole team of heavies to the enemy base, making it so no combat happens.
Heavies using the ECM to give themselves and their team complete immunity to missile attacks. (It should hinder missiles, not make them almost useless.)

I feel that ECM disrupting missile locks as they currently do is a tad too much. I like ECM (even though I don't field it) and feel it has it's place. However, I started this game as a Hunchback 4J. I lived off support while I learned the game. Now I run all direct line of sight weapons, thankfully before the ECM release. If I was to try starting now, I'd be very frustrated.

It isn't that ECM is too strong, but rather it has no counters but itself. That makes it a match on who has the most ECM.

To be fair though, I was playing last night and got dropped in several matches where my team had no ECM. I personally didn't feel it's presence on the field when our opponents had it, as I use a lot of different detection methodes. The rest of my team usually felt it though. I did have a few times where my no ECM random team did manage to win against a team with several ECM units. It's just not easy.

In the end, I guess I agree with you, but don't? I like ECM. Should it be tweeked? Sure. Should it have more counters? Sure. Would I quit the game because of it? Nope. It's bata. Give them some time and I'm sure it will be better. It just came out and it's going to take a while to fine tune the delecate game play balance. Just give them your open, honest feed back and be nice about it. No need to bash or yell at them. Just be honest on why you don't like something, what you think could use to be changed, and maybe suggest a few fixes yourself. Be helpful, not a hindrance. Tell them you are frustrated with how ECM is being played. Players will always use things whenever possible in ways never intended to get results that are better than average. It's a matter of how to change an item so players can only use it as intended, without making it near useless in the end. It's a lot of work.

#8 Tesunie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

View PostRedoxin, on 09 December 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

You and the OP make it sound as if one was forced to play 8v8 now. We did only get an additional OPTION with the 8v8. Apart from that nothing changed. Dont like 8v8? Well dont play it. Check the right box when making a group and everything will be like before. Guess this is the perfect example showing that people will always whine, no matter what.


Wait... we are suppose to be able to pick team size when going for launch? I only have a launch button and that's it. Is this a feature for those who pay for time? Just wondering here.

#9 Volume

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

ECM isn't really entirely the problem.

ECM + capture the red square game mode is the problem.

#10 Tesunie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:08 PM

View PostVolume, on 09 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

ECM isn't really entirely the problem.

ECM + capture the red square game mode is the problem.


Agreed. More game modes would probably help releive the ECM "problem", as well as make everything just more interesting to play. Having only one game mode right now is... repetative. But, as I said, give them time. It's all in the works.

#11 sycocys

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:09 PM

I believe the selector for 8v8 only is in the social/team prep section.

#12 Tesunie

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:10 PM

View Postsycocys, on 09 December 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

I believe the selector for 8v8 only is in the social/team prep section.


When I get home, I'll have to check that out. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there...

#13 Tex Arcana

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostVolume, on 09 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

ECM isn't really entirely the problem.

ECM + capture the red square game mode is the problem.

Actually it's not the capture option; it's the ECM, plus map design, plus number of units available in a match that's the problem.
It's ridiculous how much ninja capping is occuring now: It was only a minor annoyance Pre-ECM. Now it's every couple of matches.
Eg. WoT has 15 units on large maps: It's VERY hard to ninja cap.

#14 Redoxin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

View PostTesunie, on 09 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:


Wait... we are suppose to be able to pick team size when going for launch? I only have a launch button and that's it. Is this a feature for those who pay for time? Just wondering here.

When creating a group, you have the option to make a 2-4 man group (like before the patch) or a 8 man group (new). If you just launch solo without making a group nothing has changed.

#15 GoDsiZeSnakEyes

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

I'm about done with MWO. Performance going downhill with each patch ruined it for me. Can't brawl with single digit fps and ecm killed lrm boats, my only effective load out in this slide show. .

#16 Redoxin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:01 PM

View PostGoDsiZeSnakEyes, on 09 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm about done with MWO. Performance going downhill with each patch ruined it for me. Can't brawl with single digit fps and ecm killed lrm boats, my only effective load out in this slide show. .

Thats at least a legit reason for quitting.

#17 White Bear 84

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

Love ECM in its current form.. ..hell yeah i get frustrated as hell when i have a team that is just running trial mechs and were up against 3/4 mechs with ECM and i am only one with ECM on our team, but then i have already suggested in a previous thread a suggestion for tackling that issue..

..ECM is great ;)

View PostGoDsiZeSnakEyes, on 09 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm about done with MWO. Performance going downhill with each patch ruined it for me. Can't brawl with single digit fps and ecm killed lrm boats, my only effective load out in this slide show. .


I LRM boat all the time still... ...in my ECM atlas :ph34r:

#18 knight-of-ni

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

Just like with all the other changes made to this game, give the dev's some time to iron out the latest changes.

As long as the game has a status of beta, things like this are not going to stop. This is by design. Personally, I'm glad they release new widgets the way they do. This gives us, the players, the ability to shape the game the way we want.

Hate to see you quit, but if you do can I have your stuff?

#19 Alphascrub

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

View Postknnniggett, on 09 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:


As long as the game has a status of beta, things like this are not going to stop. This is by design. Personally, I'm glad they release new widgets the way they do. This gives us, the players, the ability to shape the game the way we want.



I'm glad you made this comment. Its much kinder the what I would have said. That being said, I just want to stress one more thing. We as a player base on a beta are here to give constructive feedback about the game and whats going on in it. Not OMG THIS IS OP THIS IS OP. If you think something is overpowered or unbalanced then you need to state it in a polite manner, and quite frankly you need to be able to back it up better than, THIS GUY JUST HAD THIS LAST MATCH AND IT KILLED ME WHEN I WAS HALF DEAD ALREADY!

View PostWhite Bear 84, on 09 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:



I LRM boat all the time still... ...in my ECM atlas :ph34r:


Mark my words, that beast's days are numbered. ;)

#20 Grugore

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

The problem is that there's no limit to what you can bring to the fight. When both sides have to select their mechs within a set tonnage for the whole group, things will improve. Plus bigger maps and different game modes. I like this game and where it's going. All you crybabies, who rage quit, will come back at a later date and be shocked at how the game turned out.





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