416 replies to this topic

[SpiralRazor]

Mordynak, on 11 December 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

Its not a case of blind leading the blind at all. People who constantly complain generally have little idea of how a problem could be resolved. Your constant moaning doesnt help anything. Negativity gets you nowhere.

Does not account for the most informed and math-able amongst us though.

soarra, on 11 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Broken No its not, does it have problems yes it does.

Lol, you should stop before you go any further here:)

[Penance]

when i read this thread title, i feel like I need to see....



somewhere

[Wolfways]

Garth Erlam, on 11 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Ohh philosophic debate; ok, I have one!

If you walk into a restaurant when it's closed, and give the waiter 2 bucks for a coffee, is the store open?

Except you can't do that because they keep the door locked until they are ready for customers

[Joseph Mallan]

Lonestar1771, on 11 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

So how do you explain people proving that parts of the game are broken with math and science?

Consorting with the Devel?

[skamage]

Penance, on 11 December 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

when i read this thread title, i feel like I need to see....



somewhere

[Joseph Mallan]

Garth Erlam, on 11 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Ohh philosophic debate; ok, I have one!

If you walk into a restaurant when it's closed, and give the waiter 2 bucks for a coffee, is the store open?

If he gives you a coffee, yes it is.

[Lonestar1771]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Consorting with the Devel?

What's a Devel?

[Lin Shai]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

If he gives you a coffee, yes it is.

And am I the only one that thinks a cup coffee should cost about half that?

[nom de guerre]

Lonestar1771, on 11 December 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

What's a Devel?

Paul ?

[Lonestar1771]

nom de guerre, on 11 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Paul ?

Nicely done!!

[mattkachu]

This game is in beta?

I thought it was open Alpha.

Learn something new everyday!

[DivineEvil]

Sensor-opening Epsilon, my a$$...

[Lyteros]

Can somebody please redefine the beta term on wikipedia, so we can help the whiteknights and fanbois with their delusion about the meaning of "beta"?

[Lanessar]

Honestly, if you're so clouded by the rants and raves that you can't see why the rants and raves exist, I don't know what to say. Garth's hugs aside, the bottom line for all the angst is this:

Beta testers are giving good feedback about the existing game systems and bugs, and yet it isn't being addressed.

Let's break this down to the specifics:

1. Bad netcode. Mentioned since closed beta, been a problem since closed beta (at least 3-4 months before Open Beta). Three patches addressed this. Two had to be reverted as the game got borked badly. This was one of the three main reasons I asked in four emails not to go to open beta, and it was one of the main "we're not ready for OB" complaints amongst players. This would not get better with another thousand or five thousand players. The post addressing the handling path for this pretty major issue was posted what, three or four weeks ago?

2. Testing which allows major (not minor, but major playability concerns) to go live, when the issues were discovered within 30-40 minutes of being released on live. This is not a one-time deal. This was the introduction of every major system in the game (DHS, Artemis, LRM tweaks, Streaks, ECM, the list does go on).

3. Player retention and new player experience just awful. And honestly? There was NO excuse for that. Someone in the development staff thought that trial mechs would do it, as well as video tutorials. Closed beta testers for months brought up solutions, possiblities, ways to deal with it. Not one idea was implemented, no feedback was even commented upon. It didn't even appear in the roadmap posts until after a very thorough series of posts were put up.

These aren't things that inspire confidence. I understand why they happen, working in a development environment, but honestly, after a period of people providing useful and insightful posts, and these getting ignored or not posted in by developers or community people, where the "troll" threads or threads with no real useful feedback get attention (hugs or pithy sayings), if you want to get a developer response, what is your path?

The current response model favors empty content, over reasonable posts where someone actually says "thanks for all the time put into this, but have you considered the XYZ build?" This does happen from time to time, but probably not as frequently as it needs to. There's an awesome balancing post (18 pages and counting) that just hasn't had any feedback in it. I finally brought it up in an "Ask the Devs", but I'm not really certain it was reviewed by the design staff. If they were PMing the author, or asking questions in the thread, I'd be more inclined to think that it was addressed.

I don't have an issue with PGI, or the Devs, or even Garth's responses. I don't hate everything they do, I'm not saying the game is going to fail, I'm not anti-PGI. I actually like the game in a general sense. The only two issues I have with the game as it stands are:

1. Bugs need to be fixed so that it's fully playable (mainly netcode for me)
2. Cash shop needs to be monetized for a micro-transaction model rather than the current path.

Do I like or agree with all the balancing actions they are taking? No. And I will speak out against some of the dumber decisions (balancing DHS around 6xML, for example). That won't stop me from playing or even enjoying the game.

However, the people consistently wondering why all the angst exists, etc. - yes, to boil it down, they are afraid this is all there will be. What makes them afraid of that is the points I noted above.

Edited by Lanessar, 11 December 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[Heeden]

People who think this is anything but a beta have incredibly low standards when it comes to games.

[soarra]

Lanessar, on 11 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Honestly, if you're so clouded by the rants and raves that you can't see why the rants and raves exist, I don't know what to say. Garth's hugs aside, the bottom line for all the angst is this:

Beta testers are giving good feedback about the existing game systems and bugs, and yet it isn't being addressed.

Let's break this down to the specifics:

1. Bad netcode. Mentioned since closed beta, been a problem since closed beta (at least 3-4 months before Open Beta). Three patches addressed this. Two had to be reverted as the game got borked badly. This was one of the three main reasons I asked in four emails not to go to open beta, and it was one of the main "we're not ready for OB" complaints amongst players. This would not get better with another thousand or five thousand players. The post addressing the handling path for this pretty major issue was posted what, three or four weeks ago?

2. Testing which allows major (not minor, but major playability concerns) to go live, when the issues were discovered within 30-40 minutes of being released on live. This is not a one-time deal. This was the introduction of every major system in the game (DHS, Artemis, LRM tweaks, Streaks, ECM, the list does go on).

3. Player retention and new player experience just awful. And honestly? There was NO excuse for that. Someone in the development staff thought that trial mechs would do it, as well as video tutorials. Closed beta testers for months brought up solutions, possiblities, ways to deal with it. Not one idea was implemented, no feedback was even commented upon. It didn't even appear in the roadmap posts until after a very thorough series of posts were put up.

These aren't things that inspire confidence. I understand why they happen, working in a development environment, but honestly, after a period of people providing useful and insightful posts, and these getting ignored or not posted in by developers or community people, where the "troll" threads or threads with no real useful feedback get attention (hugs or pithy sayings), if you want to get a developer response, what is your path?

The current response model favors empty content, over reasonable posts where someone actually says "thanks for all the time put into this, but have you considered the XYZ build?" This does happen from time to time, but probably not as frequently as it needs to. There's an awesome balancing post (18 pages and counting) that just hasn't had any feedback in it. I finally brought it up in an "Ask the Devs", but I'm not really certain it was reviewed by the design staff. If they were PMing the author, or asking questions in the thread, I'd be more inclined to think that it was addressed.

I don't have an issue with PGI, or the Devs, or even Garth's responses. I don't hate everything they do, I'm not saying the game is going to fail, I'm not anti-PGI. I actually like the game in a general sense. The only two issues I have with the game as it stands are:

1. Bugs need to be fixed so that it's fully playable (mainly netcode for me)
2. Cash shop needs to be monetized for a micro-transaction model rather than the current path.

Do I like or agree with all the balancing actions they are taking? No. And I will speak out against some of the dumber decisions (balancing DHS around 6xML, for example). That won't stop me from playing or even enjoying the game.

However, the people consistently wondering why all the angst exists, etc. - yes, to boil it down, they are afraid this is all there will be. What makes them afraid of that is the points I noted above.

1: Net-Code Roadmap
and completely redoing the netcode isnt an easy job

Edited by soarra, 11 December 2012 - 10:47 AM.

[Lanessar]

soarra, on 11 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

1: Net-Code Roadmap
and completely redoing the netcode isnt an easy job

I am fully aware of this. Read past the words "netcode".

Edited by Lanessar, 11 December 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Lin Shai]

soarra, on 11 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

1: Net-Code Roadmap
and completely redoing the netcode isnt an easy job

::sigh::

Dear lord the cool-aid is strong in this one.

I'm guessing all those words you just quoted were just waaaaay to difficult to read, so you ignored them?

[soarra]

the shop is fine.. Its all cosmetic stuff you do not need to purchase to play.
yes the netcode needs fixing
heat- double was OP so they adjusted it. Its fine now.
bugs are frustrating and hopefully they get fixed soon.
im tired of the yellow screen and rainbow minimap , but i deal with it and send in a bug report each time something happens.
happy?

Edited by soarra, 11 December 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[Doctor Smiley]

If you dont like what the coffee shop is serving go to a new coffee shop...Or Just Make your own damn Coffee...