211 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I agree that they should be brought back into the game for continuity's sake. They (the non-Clan Unseen Mechs) all exist in the Inner Sphere, they are canon, they fill many roles in the Lore, they have great battlefield worth, and they can be modeled after the ReSeen imagery with absolutely no Legal consequences.

Please, Staff, can you consider generating some Flying Debris ReSeen Mechs in the future?

[Trevnor]

You guys all realized that the devs are all under NDA? If the head honcho says don't talk about it, they can't talk about it. Sure, it would be nice, but they can't do anything about it as much as we can.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Storm McIntyre, on 16 May 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

I can sympathise with your frustration, Vex. Conjecture can be fun, but after a while can turn from fun to frustrating. I'm thinking the only reason we haven't had a definite answer on this subject is because the powers that be at PGI have yet to come to a decision themselves. Granted, I could be wrong, but it would explain why the Devs have not stepped up and and layed it out in plain terms for us. If they haven't, some of the Devs could be feeling the same frustration you are, and until a decision is made there's nothing they can do but read our posts and suffer silently along with us. Remember, these guys are Battletech/Mechwarrior players themselves. I'm sure a few of them have a few of the unseen/reseen close to their hearts as well. Along with a few clan mechs, a few Jihad designs, etc, etc...

All I can say is, "I feel your pain, brother" but all we can do is be patient and wait.

Storm,

I get the sense the decision was made long ago, I cannot fathom a legal issue that would prevent PGI from generating an announcement to stave off the prolific guess-work of the boards. If such an announcement were made, that indeed, they were bound by some legal context, I would endeavor to say, even more ignorant jaw- slacked posts (esoterically mine included) would result.

My interest is informational more so than anything else. i am terrible about facts, I hate illusion and allusiveness, its just my nature.

[Mason Grimm]

Merging the Unseen threads since they are starting to become, infectious.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Lt Trevnor, on 16 May 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

You guys all realized that the devs are all under NDA? If the head honcho says don't talk about it, they can't talk about it. Sure, it would be nice, but they can't do anything about it as much as we can.

And they have a legal department for a reason. Agreed, however if so bound they could at least use that legal department to give up some information to parlay the facts of the situation across to their potentially paying clientele. Is the silence worth the risk of upsetting the players twice in two months?

thanks Mason

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 16 May 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[Gigaton]

DirePhoenix, on 16 May 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

Does no one read?

How many times does this need to be reposted?!?

And again, "There is no legal battle." does not mean that there won't be a legal battle if we get an unseen in the actual game. And by unseen, I mean the original artwork (mostly from the original versions of 3025/50 TROs) not the Project Phoenix reseen. The Warhammer in the early trailer was the illegal unseen, not the legal reseen.

List of non-legal artwork from Herb:

Quote

Hello,

Yes, all of the previously-identified Unseen are, once again, Unseen. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The affected units are:

The original (3025/3050) versions of the following:
Locust
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Ostscout
Phoenix Hawk
Shadow Hawk
Griffin
Scorpion
Wolverine
Ostroc
Ostsol
Rifleman
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
Battlemaster
Stinger LAM
Wasp LAM
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Longbow
Marauder II
Behemoth (BattleDroids)
Samurai Aerospace Fighter
Galleon Light Tank


And the original (3055) versions of the following:
Nexus
Raijin
Grand Crusader
Baboon
Locust IIC
Vixen
Jenner IIC
Peregrine
Griffin IIC
Shadow Hawk IIC
Hellhound
Goshawk
Galahad
Rifleman IIC
Viper
Warhammer IIC
Phoenix Hawk IIC
Marauder IIC
Behemoth (Original Clan)
Kraken

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
BattleTech
Catalyst Game Labs

http://bg.battletech...hp?topic=9479.0

Edited by Gigaton, 16 May 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Trevnor]

Vexgrave Lars, on 16 May 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

And they have a legal department for a reason. Agreed, however if so bound they could at least use that legal department to give up some information to parlay the facts of the situation across to their potentially paying clientele. Is the silence worth the risk of upsetting the players twice in two months?

thanks Mason

Sure, they have a legal department. But then again, a NDA's terms are rarely re-negotiated after signing. If, for example, the NDA states that the staff cannot talk about art assets('mechs and associated imagery) unless already reveled to the general public, then they simply cannot talk about them. Even if it's to confirm weather or not Unseen's can be used in-game. That would still be a breach of NDA. Also, see Gigaton's post above this.

[Dalfsson]

how many times does this have to be said??

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1


http://bg.battletech...ic,17454.0.html


https://twitter.com/...116058501885952
the devs have clearly stated that there are NO i repeat NO legal blocks to them useing the mechs formerly known as the "unseen".


harmony gold is NOT i repeat NOT sueing them.

AdamBaines, on 16 May 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm always hoping when the Devs say they have a "Big" Announcement, that it will be in regards to this point :-) That they, some how, are able to do reboots of the Unseens without any legal troubles. Its my little dream I know won't come true....but its still my dream to stalk the Battlefield in a Unseen Battlemaster :-)

Either way this game will rock with or without them.

Edited by Dalfsson, 16 May 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[Gigaton]

Dalfsson, on 16 May 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

the devs have clearly stated that there are NO i repeat NO legal blocks to them useing the mechs formerly known as the "unseen".

Please reduce your font size. And give me your source. And no, "Just a small update. Harmony Gold has nothing to do with any delays. There is no legal battle." is not source for that claim. It just means that the trailer video with the illegal Warhammer wasn't enough yet to cause a legal clash.

As far as Catalyst Game Labs is concerned, the unseen (the original artwork) are not usable. Only the reseen (the revised artwork) are.

Wouldn't PGI securing legal rights to use the unseen all by themselves actually entitle a legal battle? Something that, as Bryan tells us, has not happened.

(Edit) I guess this might be a clash of terminology here. Just to clarify, there are no 'mechs "formerly known as unseen", there are only unseen and reseen. The difference between the two is artwork, one is legal and one is not. A 'mech "formerly known as unseen" would be one whose original artwork (say, from TRO 3025) was made legal again.

Edited by Gigaton, 16 May 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Major Tom]

I have seen the reseen mechs and what has been reseen cannot be reunseen... The goggles, they do NOTHING!

Please PGI, do not molest my inner child with the reseen mechs, let the great artwork that drew me to this game 25 years ago remain a fond nostalgic memory. There are so many mechs not embroiled in a legal quagmire that could use a facelift, and who know in the future we may be able to resee the unseen mechs in their original glory.

Edited by Major Tom, 16 May 2012 - 09:16 AM.

[Vexgrave Lars]

So here, I'll change the question

PGI, will weapons and load out characteristics for these mechs be available on chassis designs, in-house or otherwise provisioned and diverse from those mechs by that are affectionately known by the names on the list below? Simply will some form of chassis of said below named mechs be available under separate visual effects but contain the same canon configurations and weight class performance expectations?

Locust
Wasp
Stinger
Valkyrie
Ostscout
Phoenix Hawk
Shadow Hawk
Griffin
Scorpion
Wolverine
Ostroc
Ostsol
Rifleman
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
Battlemaster
Stinger LAM
Wasp LAM
Phoenix Hawk LAM
Longbow
Marauder II

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 16 May 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[Kaemon]

Shimmering Sword artwork - http://shimmering-sw...deviantart.com/

Just gonna leave this here...cause it's nice and needs a home.

(I think his warhammer belongs in MW:Tactics , it's more their style of art).

[Vexgrave Lars]

Kaemon, on 16 May 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Shimmering Sword artwork - http://shimmering-sw...deviantart.com/

Just gonna leave this here...cause it's nice and needs a home.

(I think his warhammer belongs in MW:Tactics , it's more their style of art).

Tragically, someone would press a suit, far to close to the original. But you are right, it is beautiful!

[Major Tom]

Vexgrave Lars, on 16 May 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

So here, I'll change the question
Can I build these mechs in mechlab [sic]

md laser, 2 mg - yes
md laser, srm2 - yes
md laser, 2 mg - see above
md laser, lrm10 - yes
md laser - yes
lg laser, 2 md laser, 2 mg - yes
AC5, md laser, srm2, lrm5 - yes
PPC, lrm10 - yes
PPC, srm6 - yes
AC5, md laser, srm6 - see above
2 lg laser, 2 md laser, lrm5 - yes
2 lg laser, 4 md laser - yes
2 lg laser, 2 ac, 2 md - yes
2 lrm15, 2 srm6, 2 md laser, 2mg - yes
lg laser, lrm15, srm2, 3 md laser, 2 mg - yes
2 lrm20, 4 md laser, - yes
2 ppc, 2 md laser, 2 sm laser, 2 mg, 1 srm6 - yes
2 ppc, 2 md laser, ac5 - yes
1 ppc, 2 lrm10, 2 mg - yes
1 pcc, 1 srm6, 6 md laser, 2 mg - yes
air units - no
air units - see above
air units - see above
2 lrm20, 2 lrm5, sm laser - yes
2 ppc, lg laser, 2 md laser - yes

fixed it for you. pretty much everything but the LAMs. There will be no aerial units at release, and no transformers ever.
If anything I said was incorrect I will buy you and internet cookie and a wetnap.

[Paradat]

PLease please! I want all of them! Those are the Mechs we should start with and move up from there.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Major Tom, on 16 May 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

fixed it for you. pretty much everything but the LAMs. There will be no aerial units at release, and no transformers ever.
If anything I said was incorrect I will buy you and internet cookie and a wetnap.

Don't worry Tom, I'm sure your inner child is safe.. if I need a wetnap or a cookie, I won't take yours. Being right about "can't be done" usually means that the question hasn't been properly posed, or heard. I'll take the blame for that.

The point is, Will the name "Marauder" can be given to a different visual design, created by PGI, however PGI gets there, with the same configuration.
I KNOW I can build it in the lab somehow, some way. LAMs and Aero..meh.

I hadn't seen the ,message about the unseen from Beas (above) until today, while a tragic event, certainly something which can be worked around, unless your emotionally attached childhood perspective can't let go of the past and clings to it like a mama's teat.

Whatever PGI comes up with would be perfectly fine by me, as long as we can get an answer as to whats in and whats out. Once again, art aside, will the configurations exist on chassis created by PGI?

[DirePhoenix]

I believe these mechs are an important part of the history of BattleTech and should be included in all the upcoming MechWarrior games. I'm also confident from seeing the art here that the MWO guys can come up with a design that looks unique enough to stand on its own yet still be recognizable to veterans as the 'Mechs they're supposed to be.

[WraithTR1]

Kaemon, on 16 May 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Shimmering Sword artwork - http://shimmering-sw...deviantart.com/

Just gonna leave this here...cause it's nice and needs a home.

(I think his warhammer belongs in MW:Tactics , it's more their style of art).

http://www.sarna.net...25_marauder.jpg

I really do like this. Comparing this to the original Marauder art work, if a design like this was used then I don't think they would have any grounds to stand on. If I remember right there has to be at least a 30% design change to avoid issues with copyright. The legs are completely different, it's lost the pods on either side of the torso, no weird antennas sticking out, it's moved the secondary gun from the center to the right torso, etc. Other then the general overall shape I think the closest portion to the Unseen version is the arm weapon pods. It retains enough of the Unseen look to make me think Marauder when I see it, but enough difference to not be the Unseen version, in my opinion.

Edited by WraithTR1, 16 May 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[Major Tom]

Vexgrave Lars, on 16 May 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

I am glad we are seeing eye-to-eye.
I do not want the old mechs bastardized with new artwork.
As long as you are changing the images of the unseen mechs, just keep on going and change the name as too.

the differences between us: I'm attached to the image of the original mechs, you are attached to the loadout.
I have no complaint against PGI making a Kriegstein70 ton with 2 ppc, srm6, 2 md, 2 sm, 2 mg. using new artwork, but don't polish a **** and call it a Warhammer, I know what a warhammer looks like.

Edited by Major Tom, 16 May 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[Cifu]

Dalfsson, on 16 May 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

how many times does this have to be said??

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1


http://bg.battletech...ic,17454.0.html


https://twitter.com/...116058501885952
the devs have clearly stated that there are NO i repeat NO legal blocks to them useing the mechs formerly known as the "unseen".


harmony gold is NOT i repeat NOT sueing them.

Even if you use bigger font size, dear troll-mechwarrior, your argument not any better than anyone else's. So try to become a usefull forum member, and not a Troll-forum member.

About the sueing: check why the Mechwarrior 3025 are failed. Yea, the HG not sueing you... until you won't try to put an old Warhammer, Marauder, etc. into the game.

Edited by Cifu, 16 May 2012 - 10:06 AM.