211 replies to this topic

[Yu Kigono]

S3dition, on 15 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Since you're not grasping English, let me break it down:


Erase all clan mechs - they aren't doing clan mechs right now, so you won't see them for more than a year.
Erase all mechs post 3049 - Next releases are 3050 and 3055. How frequently they release mechs is still a mystery. We have no clue if it will be on the day or grouped and in intervals.

This leaves mechs prior to 3050, and that's still a lot of mechs. They haven't said you won't see them, thereby invalidating the entire topic. Furthermore, they explicitly said nothing came of the "legal issues," thereby confirming that the unseen are not legally tied down.



From your condescending tone about me "getting over it," I'd say you're rather sore about the preclusion of clans and your anger at me pointing it out, despite I never said they "will never be in the game."

As a note, smugness is a character flaw. I'd advise being either stoic or at least try non-hostile responses.

You seem to be reading far more into my posts than is actually there. My initial response was merely due to the fact that I often see the attitude of, "Nothing after 3025 matters." from "Old School" folks who still think the Clans are the new thing that ruined the game.

I merely assumed that was what you were doing. It seems my assumption was incorrect, and for that I apologize.

Anyway, I agree with you that there are more than enough mechs that are available in this time period, as was the main point of my initial post.

[S3dition]

Black Dragon EnDrakus, on 16 May 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

***? since when could a marauder fly like that?

I'm not sure why FASA began to license so frivolously. I have a feeling it played a part in their later demise. Realistically, they had two extremely successful IP's and a third that made good waves in the PC world.

I can't say for sure, just like nobody here is qualified to say exactly what the legal implications are of using the unseen.

[Black Dragon EnDrakus]

ahh well. unseen/reseen is something for the upper managment to deal with, I do like some of the origional designs, the Marauder being one of my favorites, but having seen a few of the reseen designs, i find myself enjoying them a bit, the new phoenix hawk and warhammer look pretty cool to me, and whatever the devs decide to do with them, I plan to enjoy this game to the utmost that i am able. that enjoyment will not hinge on the inclusion or exclusion of any specific mech or mech design. i just want a solid 65 ton or so chassis that i can pack ten M-Pulse lasers onto so that the Kneecapper can stride the battlefield causing other pilots to fear for the legs of their mechs.

[S3dition]

Yu Kigono, on 16 May 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

You seem to be reading far more into my posts than is actually there. My initial response was merely due to the fact that I often see the attitude of, "Nothing after 3025 matters." from "Old School" folks who still think the Clans are the new thing that ruined the game.

I merely assumed that was what you were doing. It seems my assumption was incorrect, and for that I apologize.

Anyway, I agree with you that there are more than enough mechs that are available in this time period, as was the main point of my initial post.

Apology accepted . And FYI, I started playing around 1997. I'm a fan of both Jade Falcon and Davion, so I don't really have a pull to any specific timeline. I do, however, have a smidge of game design experience and some programming experience, so I understand the stress and workload involved. I try to explain to others that stacking an additional load that may cause legal issues further down the road isn't always the best course of action, but as previously stated, it may not be case for this game.

And to be perfectly on topic and answer the OP, PGI already hired a talented concept artist and their limited budget may very well preclude licensing the existing pheonix artwork. On top of that, that artwork is isometric and does not conform to the current art style in the game. In other words, it makes the work much harder for the 3d modelers and - well just imagine this: There you were, playing Battlefield 3/Modern Warfare 3, Skyrim/whatever. And suddenly - World of Warcraft graphics start appearing. Crazy? Yeah, that's because game designers specifically don't do this. They try to make the entire game one cohesive unit.

As for the butter, it makes LRM's slide of the rack easier.

[Yu Kigono]

S3dition, on 16 May 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

Apology accepted . And FYI, I started playing around 1997. I'm a fan of both Jade Falcon and Davion, so I don't really have a pull to any specific timeline. I do, however, have a smidge of game design experience and some programming experience, so I understand the stress and workload involved. I try to explain to others that stacking an additional load that may cause legal issues further down the road isn't always the best course of action, but as previously stated, it may not be case for this game.

And to be perfectly on topic and answer the OP, PGI already hired a talented concept artist and their limited budget may very well preclude licensing the existing pheonix artwork. On top of that, that artwork is isometric and does not conform to the current art style in the game. In other words, it makes the work much harder for the 3d modelers and - well just imagine this: There you were, playing Battlefield 3/Modern Warfare 3, Skyrim/whatever. And suddenly - World of Warcraft graphics start appearing. Crazy? Yeah, that's because game designers specifically don't do this. They try to make the entire game one cohesive unit.

As for the butter, it makes LRM's slide of the rack easier.

Hmm, well, the art style for the Phoenix designs isn't that much different from most of the other artwork seen in current Battletech books, and Alex Iglesias/Flying Debris, has done plenty of artwork for them as well. I don't really see any difficulty in including them. Mechs like the Warhammer, Marauder and Battlemaster will probably show up in some form eventually. I can wait for that time, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[S3dition]

Yu Kigono, on 16 May 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Hmm, well, the art style for the Phoenix designs isn't that much different from most of the other artwork seen in current Battletech books, and Alex Iglesias/Flying Debris, has done plenty of artwork for them as well. I don't really see any difficulty in including them. Mechs like the Warhammer, Marauder and Battlemaster will probably show up in some form eventually. I can wait for that time, hopefully sooner rather than later.

My baby is a Bushwacker. That's 3055. Believe me, I understand the pain of waiting. There is no difficulty except cost an development time.

Tell me, have you ever produce a 3d model? Textured it? Rigged it? Weighted it? Used matrix and vector programming? I have. Well, to be fair, did a bit of the modeling. Matrix and vector programming are big in 2d games, but only a snuffle when constructing a 3d game (especially with physics).

Let me tell you, it's a pain. You need to use projection to make a perfect copy, otherwise it's pretty much impossible to make a perfect copy. That means you need a front, top, and bottom in perfect proportions speed up the production and accuracy of 3d models.

Then you move into weighting, rigging, and animation In similar models, you can reuse many of the same animations. If those models begin to differ, you need to start from scratch. Animations aren't easy to get right, and key frames can't just be regenerated with the full animation in tow.

I understand people have favorite mechs that they want to see, I really do. I understand many of these are originally drawn by assets currently owned by Harmony Gold. There are many games that feature these models in their full incarnation. We are at a point in battletech where it is unlikely that they will be utilized. It's more an issuing of restructuring.

[Yu Kigono]

S3dition, on 16 May 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

My baby is a Bushwacker. That's 3055. Believe me, I understand the pain of waiting. There is no difficulty except cost an development time.

Tell me, have you ever produce a 3d model? Textured it? Rigged it? Weighted it? Used matrix and vector programming? I have. Well, to be fair, did a bit of the modeling. Matrix and vector programming are big in 2d games, but only a snuffle when constructing a 3d game (especially with physics).

Let me tell you, it's a pain. You need to use projection to make a perfect copy, otherwise it's pretty much impossible to make a perfect copy. That means you need a front, top, and bottom in perfect proportions speed up the production and accuracy of 3d models.

Then you move into weighting, rigging, and animation In similar models, you can reuse many of the same animations. If those models begin to differ, you need to start from scratch. Animations aren't easy to get right, and key frames can't just be regenerated with the full animation in tow.

I understand people have favorite mechs that they want to see, I really do. I understand many of these are originally drawn by assets currently owned by Harmony Gold. There are many games that feature these models in their full incarnation. We are at a point in battletech where it is unlikely that they will be utilized. It's more an issuing of restructuring.

No, I've never done any of those things with 3D models. Art isn't my thing, I don't have any skill. But I do know that it takes a lot of work. Anyway, I know the original Unseen designs will never ever be this game, mostly thanks to Harmony Gold's useless death grip on designs they can't even legally use. I think everyone on this thread, including me, expect to either see those mechs in their Reseen form, or in entirely new forms designed by FD. Now those, those they would be in the free to use.

[autogyro]

The quicker we can accept that there is very, very little chance of seeing an Unseen/Reseen anytime soon, the less of a disappointment it'll be when we see that, yet again, the next set of release mechs isn't an unseen/reseen.

Let's just accept the legal grey area for what it is and look forward to the ones that we'll be getting instead.

[Nav]

S3dition, on 15 May 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I usually don't throw a dog into a fight I didn't start, but...

Erase all clan mechs
Erase all mechs post 3049

For crap's sake, they have 1 concept artist and a limited development team. They might be doing the unseen, but give them time to work. I bet we'll see them when they're ready to be seen.

>_> Yeah, I went there.

What has any of that got to do with the price of tea in China?

The subject of discussion is about the Unseen / Reseen Mechs, pre 3049. Nothing about Clans or Post Invasion designs.

There is no problem waiting, just that it would be good to know if this is a possibility or not?

Anyway... @ Hawkeye 72 - Fully my thoughts about the Re-seen Marauder. I would like to see the Marauder re-born under FD's creative genius, but still resemble that original in spirit. This was posted in another thread while he was talking with the No Guts No Galaxy crew. Gives you a bit of feel for how it could look. The question is, is it different enough to avoid a legal issue of resembling the original too much?

I'm happy for the cockpit to look more like the new Catapult if need be.

Edited by Nav, 16 May 2012 - 02:00 AM.

[XTRMNTR2K]

Nav, on 16 May 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Where can I get one of those?

[S3dition]

Quote

What has any of that got to do with the price of tea in China?

The subject of discussion is about the Unseen / Reseen Mechs, pre 3049. Nothing about Clans or Post Invasion designs.

Sorry, I didn't know we were discussing the price of tea in china. I think you're looking for a different website. XE is good for the currency conversion, if that helps.

If not, you can try reading the follow up conversation. Might give you a bit of perspective on why you just stuck your foot in your mouth.

[Yu Kigono]

autogyro, on 16 May 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

The quicker we can accept that there is very, very little chance of seeing an Unseen/Reseen anytime soon, the less of a disappointment it'll be when we see that, yet again, the next set of release mechs isn't an unseen/reseen.

Let's just accept the legal grey area for what it is and look forward to the ones that we'll be getting instead.

Except there is absolutely zero reason to not see the Reseen in the game. There are no legal barriers preventing it. If Harmony Gold wanted to do something about it, they would have sued Catalyst by now. Those images have been in print for nearly a decade now.

Edited by Yu Kigono, 16 May 2012 - 02:18 AM.

[S3dition]

Yu Kigono, on 16 May 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Except there is absolutely zero reason to not see the Reseen in the game. There are no legal barriers preventing it. If Harmony Gold wanted to do something about it, they would have sued Catalyst by now. Those images have been in print for nearly a decade now.

In fact, I'd wager we will see them. They were in the original teaser, and Paul didn't refute adding them to the game. Only the physical design caused problems, and that was years ago. Still, if the "unseen" will be added, you can bet Alex will be the one designing them.

[Yu Kigono]

S3dition, on 16 May 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

In fact, I'd wager we will see them. They were in the original teaser, and Paul didn't refute adding them to the game. Only the physical design caused problems, and that was years ago. Still, if the "unseen" will be added, you can bet Alex will be the one designing them.

Agreed.

[Nakir]

I advise you to bring this discussion in a question in this topic http://mwomercs.com/...ask-the-devs-3/ .It is probable that the matter is taken into consideration by "high commands".

[Joe Mallad]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 May 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Ok, so are the Project Pheonix designs the ones Wizkidsgames used to make their CMG? If so the Marauder, Warhammer, Loki, THor, Madcat, Vulture..well, just about every single one of them that was Project Phoenix I thought looked retarded....The Loki and THor, well they didnt look to bad but there is just something about the originals that makes WKG models look ugly....

If those arent ProPh mechs...then I guess I will have to go google up some images...

There were no clan mech in the project Phoenix tech read outs. The project Phoenix mech were all inner sphere mech and the only clan involvement in that project was clan dimond shark/sea fox who then went farther and took some of the project Phoenix mech and made them into clan variants and this is how we get mech like the marauder llC or the locust llC and warhammer llC just to name a few. The Thor, madcat, vulture and Loki (clan mech) were never project pheonix mech.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 16 May 2012 - 03:01 AM.

[Joe Mallad]

All the redesigned unseens that you see in the project pheonix tech manual are all legal to use.

[Adridos]

Yes, you have the point of them being able to introduce them, but they look so bad (mostly, not all of them), that putting them in would just screw with the look of the game. Being something that should've made those anime robots into proper mechs, they failed horribly.

Shadow Hawk (imagine this in the game):

[Redshift2k5]

Better safe than sorry,

Lots of mechs they can choose from without resorting to potential legal trouble with any unseen/reseen and someone trying to muscle in on the IP.

[Virgil Caine]

Don't worry, Battletech fans aren't the only fans Harmony Gold has butt raped with their 'intellectual property' (Property that wasn't actually concieved by them I might add)

Thousands of Macross fans have had to pirate most of the shows, including the latest, Macross Frontier because of Harmony Gold's B.S. interfering with American Licensing of their IP.