211 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Mechs called "The Unseen" were originally drawn illegally, a copy of someone else's work, and so you're not allowsd to sell their original images anymore.

However, they have all been redrawn in the BattleTech product called Project Phoenix, and Flying Debris can design Concept Art for any Unseen Mech he wants to as long as he bases the concept art on the Project Phoenix redrawn images. So, therefore, there is no Legal reason to keep the redrawn Unseen Mechs out of MW:O since you can just use the new Project Phoenix imagery.

The following Mechs are allowed, assuming we can rally some support and overwhelm the detractors:

Locust
Stinger
Wasp
Valkyrie
Ostscout
Phoenix Hawk
Griffin
Scorpion
Shadow Hawk
Wolverine
Ostroc
Ostsol
Rifleman
Crusader
Thunderbolt
Archer
Warhammer
Marauder
Goliath
Battlemaster
Longbow
Marauder II

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 May 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[Fresh Meat]

Well I very much hope this is so... I have been secretly hoping they would reveal one when beta launches

Edited by Fresh_Meat, 15 May 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[Major Tom]

I don't understand the need to resurrect those mechs. The reason they hold a special place for me (and I suspect anyone else old enough to remember the original box set) is the original artwork. Having a redrawn design doesn't make make MWO better, it just sullies the nostalgia of the old mechs. I for one would rather they be left behind than be radically altered to circumvent litigation. Besides there are so many other mechs that could really use a facelift, have you seen the Vulcan.

[Opus]

Warhammer? quit teasing me....

[William Petersen]

Prosperity Park, on 15 May 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

The Mechs called "The Unseen" were originally drawn illegally, a copy of someone else's work, and so you're not allowsd to sell their original images anymore.

However, they have all been redrawn in the BattleTech product called Project Phoenix, and Flying Debris can design Concept Art for any Unseen Mech he wants to as long as he bases the concept art on the Project Phoenix redrawn images.

So, therefore, there is no Legal reason to keep the Unseen Mechs out of MW:O since you can just use the new Project Phoenix imagery.

Your problem is one of terminology. There is every legal reason to exclude the unseen. There is no reason to exclude the reseen.

[Zakatak]

I would still kind of like the Marauder with the centerline AC/5. Just me?

[Gigaton]

As William Petersen said, the original artwork (the unseen) are not legal, but the reseen are. The problem is that these things can change if Harmony and Catalyst do another round, which would affect MW:O too. So while they are legal now, I'm not sure I'd consider them entirely safe territory.

But barring that, I rather like some of the reseen. Like the Phoenix Hawk and the Marauder.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ok, so are the Project Pheonix designs the ones Wizkidsgames used to make their CMG? If so the Marauder, Warhammer, Loki, THor, Madcat, Vulture..well, just about every single one of them that was Project Phoenix I thought looked retarded....The Loki and THor, well they didnt look to bad but there is just something about the originals that makes WKG models look ugly....

If those arent ProPh mechs...then I guess I will have to go google up some images...

[Belial]

Suggest merger with a thread on the same topic:

http://mwomercs.com/...ssed-something/

Also, concerning the Unseen/Reseen:

Edited by Belial, 15 May 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Im not a fan of wikipedia, since I've seen some things on there that weren't true. (like someone editing when Stalin was born to 1990 at one point)

but here

http://en.wikipedia....#Legal_troubles

[Ramien]

I'm inclined to agree with letting the Unseen lie. I liked the original designs since I was a fan of the original shows they showed up in. The Reseen are okay, but they're not what I associate the names with, and thus I have no attachment or overwhelming desire to see them. There's plenty of other mechs that can be put in before worrying about adding the Reseen to the mix, after all.

[Gigaton]

That's what has been said here on the forums as well Harlequin. Of course, even if there was no legal squabbling over the preview-video, that doesn't mean there won't be any if the original artwork seeps into the game itself.

IIRC, there was a possibility that the ban on the original artwork might have lifted few years back, but that possibility is gone. The original artwork for the unseen is currently firmly on Catalyst's "ban list". Though, again, the reseen artwork is quite safe for now.

Edited by Gigaton, 15 May 2012 - 08:21 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Well as I've tried to point out to people before, Go through the artwork, and take notice that the mechs dont look Identical to their original artwork designs.

I mean yes they're like 90-99% the same, but not identical. the devs put their own twist on it.

one example I like using is the MW:O design for the Centurion and the Classic Picture.

Classic CN9-D variant.




Mechwarrior Online design.






My point being, that they could probably put in any of the unseen and alter them with their own "Piranha Games" twist.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 15 May 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[Spider]

Of course there is a "legal" reasOn to exclude designs that may cause potential legal challenge.

The cost of defending yourself against said legal challenge .... regardless of whether you are sure to win or not. Not including the "unseen" at this stage prevents costly legal defence early on. Later as the product matures (and you have tons of money in the bank) you can decide if you want to incur the cost and challenge those leafy ******** for the right to use "their" designs.

Case In point: do you think everytime your awesome YouTube video's incredible soundtrack was changed from "Preliator" to "bunny hop rag Muzak edition" that YouTube is enforcing a law? They are just saving thr potential cost of litigation.

[Atlai]

well then by all means i hope they put them in game I want a Warhammer!

[Kudzu]

I'd think I'd rather see FD do them completely from the ground up-- no legal worries about his original art and many of the unseen's designs are perfect for roles that would be awesome to see filled.

[Gedeon Kane]

Mason West, on 15 May 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

well then by all means i hope they put them in game I want a Warhammer!

2nd this. I want to see the warhammer in some incarnation implemented.

[Felicitatem Parco]

William Petersen, on 15 May 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Your problem is one of terminology. There is every legal reason to exclude the unseen. There is no reason to exclude the reseen.

Unseen, Reseen, we all scream for Mech Scenes! If Flying Debris can make such a snazzy Jenner, I'm sure he can work magic with the ReSeen Phoenix images that people hate so much...

And this is only beating a dead horse if the executive personnel at the companies involved with making this game have already made binding decisions to ban/accept the Reseen designs. If the decision has not been made yet, or is subject to change, then the topic is very much alive.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 May 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

I guess I'll post this here since people seem to be unaware:

https://twitter.com/...116058501885952

Quote

Just a small update. Harmony Gold has nothing to do with any delays. There is no legal battle.

-From @Bryanekman; 07 Jun, 2011

Edited by DirePhoenix, 15 May 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Spider, on 15 May 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Of course there is a "legal" reasOn to exclude designs that may cause potential legal challenge.

The cost of defending yourself against said legal challenge .... regardless of whether you are sure to win or not. Not including the "unseen" at this stage prevents costly legal defence early on. Later as the product matures (and you have tons of money in the bank) you can decide if you want to incur the cost and challenge those leafy ******** for the right to use "their" designs.

Case In point: do you think everytime your awesome YouTube video's incredible soundtrack was changed from "Preliator" to "bunny hop rag Muzak edition" that YouTube is enforcing a law? They are just saving thr potential cost of litigation.

Did you know that Project Phoenix was created specifically to reintroduce those Mechs into the BattleTech Universe in a legal way that satisfied the owners of the orginal artwork? That's why they did it: it allowed the legal reintroduction of all those Mechs. There is no legal challenge against using Project Phoenix Mech designs because they are already green-lit.