169 replies to this topic

[Wizard Steve]

aspect, on 12 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Everybody keeps saying things like this without actually having access to the sales numbers. What exactly makes all of you so sure that it ISN'T a success?

One of the devs said that the YLW was a huge success, and I'm inclined to agree given how many of them were seen in game. I played a match a few days ago where out of the 16 mechs present, THREE of them were muromets.

I know it's fun to pretend that nobody is buying MC or hero mechs, but based on what I actually see in-game that's simply not the case. Arguing that PGI doesn't understand economics and should adjust their pricing downward when you have literally ZERO sales data is absurd...maybe they should be adjusting the price UPWARDS in order to bring in more revenue? Have you conducted a pricing trial to find out? No?

I feel like there's a lot of people on these forums who are starting to figure out basic economics and are desperate to share their new-found realizations with the world...why else would any rational person assume that nobody at PGI has heard of a demand function or a revenue curve? Everyone I know with a computer science or engineering degree has taken at least one economics class, and that sort of thing is covered in like the first week.

This.

One of the best posts I've read on these forums.

[Terror Teddy]

aspect, on 12 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

One of the devs said that the YLW was a huge success, and I'm inclined to agree given how many of them were seen in game. I played a match a few days ago where out of the 16 mechs present, THREE of them were muromets.

The kicker here is from what perspective it is a success.

1. Numerous mechs in play
2. how many are bought by us founders who has extra 'free' cash? Thus essentially not paying 'real' cash (yet)
3. how many have actually shelled out 30 USD for a hero mech, adding revenue to PGI?

Sure, I have in reality paid for my cash but it does not FEEL that way when I have a bucket of credits to spend as opposed to having to shell out an additional 30 USD to get a mech.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Stormfury, on 12 December 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

This also means we're smarter with our money (on average) with years of wisdom. Not to mention some have kids, college tuition, wives, etc. In a down economy am I going to spend $25 on a Ilya or feed the family?

$7 for Xmas lights? Seriously?

$1-2 for items like this tops and you'd sell a lot more.

The worst part of this is the casual/new user's are stuck in trial mechs for 100+ matches before ever being able to utilize this so the ONLY player you're able to sell these to are the founders/hard core fans. The free to play model is all about offering up these types of purchases to the masses not an exclusive club.

PGI has screwed up with their pricing model, not once but twice. Forcing players to pay for premium or initial mechs is killing the new player experience and literally turns MWO into a pay to play game. That was the first mistake and now it appears they have shifted to selling cockpit, skins and cammo items to make money only it's priced like the dreaded monocle.

You said it pal. Even if I wasn't Legendary, I'd probably just buy Premium and that's it. And I bet half the MC would go to bay slots.(Like this Founder bank is.) They're not gouging me for all that extra crap. I was actually looking forward to skins, but I had the false impression it would be like League of Legend skins.(Which I had LOTS OF BTW) But it's nothing like that. They want you to fund 3 sets since you have to grind 3 variants, and if you want to switch any paint on any of them, you have to pay more on top of it, on top of paying for slots just so you can unlock more Mechs. Good grief. Ya, the rich few will buy into all of this, but the 90% won't bother and if they had been nicer, they would have gotten much more. A cheaper product bought by many > an expensive product bought by few. Just saying.

Edited by Bluten, 12 December 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Stormfury, on 12 December 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

This also means we're smarter with our money (on average) with years of wisdom. Not to mention some have kids, college tuition, wives, etc. In a down economy am I going to spend $25 on a Ilya or feed the family?

$7 for Xmas lights? Seriously?

$1-2 for items like this tops and you'd sell a lot more.

The worst part of this is the casual/new user's are stuck in trial mechs for 100+ matches before ever being able to utilize this so the ONLY player you're able to sell these to are the founders/hard core fans. The free to play model is all about offering up these types of purchases to the masses not an exclusive club.

PGI has screwed up with their pricing model, not once but twice. Forcing players to pay for premium or initial mechs is killing the new player experience and literally turns MWO into a pay to play game. That was the first mistake and now it appears they have shifted to selling cockpit, skins and cammo items to make money only it's priced like the dreaded monocle.

As ive said elsewhere I think this pricing model is "if you cant afford it this game aint for you - but you can still PLAY for FREE..."

[Strahl]

I think at present the general issue is that whomever has MC right now, has a metric Fuckton of it. It's not much issue for someone to spend the MC they got from a Founder's Package because the whole article of it is still very, very fresh.

The truth of the matter is that MWO already has it's following simply because the die hard fans have been starved of it for ten years - and now finally have a really, really good, supported alternative to all those Mods or hosted games on Evolve and Gameranger.
I don't think the MC factors are costing them money, as was mentioned previously, we've only seen small portions of this game thus far - with more on the way.

As far as custom decor and paint for the Mech, once the Community Warfare gets into full swing, and the Mech's are mostly accounted for, it's more than likely that people will only have 1 or 2 variants they play with, maybe a few more - I think it keeps things relatively steady.
It feels to me, at least, that they're presently expecting each player to spend a set amount, as opposed to having the hardcores spend on a monthly basis to get what they want.

For me, at least, with my current play style, a Yen Lo would suit me just fine without little need to upgrade.

All things considered, after the full game hits and the library of heroes, items, and in-game mechanics are all on the table - I don't doubt that we'll see either a price drop for MC, or the cost of MC Product go down.

Is it presently a bit of a gouge? Oh yes. But I'd suspect that the vast percentage of players that have MC right now got it from Founders Packages. By the time the influx happens there's going to be a bit more to spend money on with a better idea of worth.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 December 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

As ive said elsewhere I think this pricing model is "if you cant afford it this game aint for you - but you can still PLAY for FREE..."

Ya, this is definitely NOT a good title you would enjoy much for free. Unlocks would take forever, some variants are locked away anyway with very high prices, and you have a 4 bay cap too until you buy more slots. Oh, btw, you start out in crap trials vs real Mechs with lots of talent and upgrade advantages and all around superior builds. The C1 for instance would only be able to fire its lasers maybe twice before shutting down, and now it won't even be able to shoot missiles now without a Tag.(Which it don't got by default) Oh and it's also wasting extra weight on jets. Any trial with jets is wasting extra weight on them because real Mechs can drop to 1JJ for full effect. Until they just drop the extra entirely from Trials, or force full count on everyone for the ability, Trials get the shaft on this.

All this is basically a death sentence for this game. The few of us that pay into it isn't going to make up for the 10x that don't and soon leave after coming.

[MustrumRidcully]

The 4-bay cap may not be that horrible. Actually grinding for 4 mechs takes a while... For MW:O, they are kinda like character slots, and games have been known to be stingy about that.

But it's on the other hand not really comparable, because to advance in the game, you need 3 different mechs. I don't think there are many games that require you to have 3 characters to earn character abilities...

[Kraven Kor]

MC itself is not overpriced, especially in the larger bundles.

Premium Time, as bought with MC, is similarly reasonably priced especially if you buy the larger MC packages.

Mech prices are insane, having to pay MC every time you want to change paint jobs is downright obnoxious, and the price of cosmetic stuff is too high for me to even stupidly buy while drunk...

Literally, I'm drunk, I'm looking at the store, and still thinking "Yeah, that's kind of a rip off."

Your prices. Are so high. That I won't even mistakenly buy things while drunk.

That has to be some kind of noteworthy achievement, if you think about it.

[Imagine Dragons]

*cough*

The MC prices just happen to copy WoT's exactly.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

XenomorphZZ, on 12 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

*cough*

The MC prices just happen to copy WoT's exactly.

ah so that makes it ok then?

[Imagine Dragons]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 December 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

ah so that makes it ok then?

To us; not really.

To PGIGP; its the system that nets Wargaming millions a month. As such, highly desirable.

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 12 December 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

XenomorphZZ, on 12 December 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

To us; not really.

To PGIGP; its the system that nets Wargaming millions a month. As such, highly desirable.

whats good for the goose is a ripoff for the gander it seems

[Lanessar]

I personally don't disagree with mech pricing or hero mech pricing. I have purchased one mech with MC, one xmas lights (which, since my screen goes yellow when I use them and makes a match unplayable, I wish I could sell back). Past that, possibly a Stalker hero mech might be spent.

Note this is "free" MC I still have from Founder's. There are several reasons I haven't blown all the MC I have and purchase more.

1. The pricing scheme for vanity items/skins is simply ********. If I wanted an all black Jenner, I'd pay as much for the paint job as I would for the Jenner itself (if I use MC).

2. There are four existing threads topping 18-20 pages on vanity items and camo spec feedback by players stating the prices are exorbitant. That's approximately 1,500 users (guesstimate, mind you) giving feedback during open beta. One for the camo spec actually has a great idea, great feedback, and a good pricing schema. The OP has gotten over 215 "likes" for the idea. Just as a comparison, the Features roadmap and other Dev posts in the command chair section have about that many "likes".

There has not been one single dev response. I'm not saying they should cave; if they want to keep pricing at this level at this time, that's ok. But talk to your fan base. Tell them. Just say "we've analyzed MC usage on this matter and have decided that lowering the prices will not occur at this time". Or even "Thanks for your feedback, we at PGI will look over this at the next pricing meeting." Whatever. Anything. Even "suck it up, noobs".

Meanwhile, a thread where people are discussing the difference between whether it's really a beta or not sees two dev posts from Garth (snarky responses, but still...). Brian Ekman is about the only person who actually responds to a feedback thread with a measured, intelligent response, or wants more information.

This isn't a good situation, honestly. I'm not saying "respond to every thread with maths or an idea in it", but when you have four feedback threads over 20 pages in length on the same subject, you just might want to talk to your client base.

Edited by Lanessar, 12 December 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[Raidyr]

XenomorphZZ, on 12 December 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

To us; not really.

To PGIGP; its the system that nets Wargaming millions a month. As such, highly desirable.

I get the feeling that MWO is not seeing near the success WoT met when it went open beta and cash purchases were final, especially considering that even at primetime I constantly see the same people in match after match. Lack of a tutorial and horrendous grind must be killing their player retention stats.

[Lightfoot]

I would have to say the Muromets was overpriced. I am not griping, I bought one, just saying I won't buy other Hero 'mechs unless it does something impressive that the others don't and the Muromets does only one thing the other Cataphracts can't. Anyway, if the Hero 'mechs were less they would sell more. Same with cockpit doodads.

Just my opinion, prices are just a bit high.

[Inertiaman]

Wizard Steve, on 12 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

This.

One of the best posts I've read on these forums.

Yes you really can't beat telling people they cannot draw conclusions without data, then telling them that the conclusions they have drawn are categorically wrong.

Personally I think the best post ever on this forum is the one pointing out that the in-game Christmas lights cost more than actual Christmas lights. How's that for data.

[Cerlin]

I am not sure how PGI has done the math but I am sure they have metrics and predictions and If the hero mechs and regular mechs were doing that badly MC wise they would HAVE TO adjust. I know that me and at least one IRL friend have both spend a lot of MC on mechs and skins and such. We are NOT rich, but we are mecha fans. I spent founders MC on regular mechs too because I didnt want to grind in mechs I hate. Is that bad? If more people were not doing this they would reevaluate. Btw, I own both hero mechs and have come to love em both.

[Inertiaman]

I think you're making an assumption that PGI have any long term intentions at all without the data to back it up.

[8CH Trooper]

aspect, on 12 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Everybody keeps saying things like this without actually having access to the sales numbers. What exactly makes all of you so sure that it ISN'T a success?

One of the devs said that the YLW was a huge success, and I'm inclined to agree given how many of them were seen in game. I played a match a few days ago where out of the 16 mechs present, THREE of them were muromets.

I know it's fun to pretend that nobody is buying MC or hero mechs, but based on what I actually see in-game that's simply not the case. Arguing that PGI doesn't understand economics and should adjust their pricing downward when you have literally ZERO sales data is absurd...maybe they should be adjusting the price UPWARDS in order to bring in more revenue? Have you conducted a pricing trial to find out? No?

I feel like there's a lot of people on these forums who are starting to figure out basic economics and are desperate to share their new-found realizations with the world...why else would any rational person assume that nobody at PGI has heard of a demand function or a revenue curve? Everyone I know with a computer science or engineering degree has taken at least one economics class, and that sort of thing is covered in like the first week.

I made a generalized comment based on the amount of negative feed back on the forums concerning pricing, which at this point out weighs the positive feed back by a considerable margin(the conversation about negative and positive feed back is best left for another day), I have no idea what the financial status of PGI is or what their base line for profit is so I did not comment on it, I merely commented on a simple sales formula. Henry Ford made more money selling Model T's then Packard did selling it's cars, that is not to say that Packard wasn't profitable it's that they catered to a small segment of the market and were more susceptible to market fluctuations(Ford is still in business Packard is not). I personally bought the YLW when it came out and did not feel that I got my money's worth and have not purchased the IM or any of the other extras that PGI is offering because I do not feel I am getting full value for my hard earned dollars. There will always be people who are willing to pay for having that special item and if the current pricing and sales is enough for PGI to maintain solvency then I would guess that they wouldn't feel any need to change the pricing hence my comment about people voting with their wallets. Life has taught me that just because someone has some letters after their name doesn't necessarily make them smart. Any company that wants to grow needs to be profitable and for those of us up in the cheap seats only time will tell on just how well PGI is being managed.

[Cerlin]

But the forums really only represents a small percent of players that choose to post. I know many players who dropped money on Mc/founders who NEVER post here and PGI does have that information. They dont just track the forums, they track transactions, which mechs we drive, who spends mc, how much, how many people dont spend any, etc. I am sure they have a long term plan and ANY company wants a successful multiplayer game. IT can make money for YEARs opposed to regular games that are only one time or short term gains. It is in their best interest that this game can make the most money possible. ALong with that they are mechwarrior fans, that gives them two strong motivations to make this work.