85 replies to this topic

[Sturmbringer]

I know Im venting here but man, since I played in organised groups for a while and won 100 games vs 2 losses (real stat is around 251 wins and 70 losses now) I tried to check out the PUG scene again.. since I thought 8 group matchmaking is in and the ECM introduces new gamplay. I really thought PUGing could be better now.. but boy was I wrong:

My observations... 4 mans are still stomping PUGs like crazy. And while the PUGs slowly started to get better and increase their skill the ECM hit them pretty hard. I guess they dont know what these things do and how to counter them - no idea.

I must say 80% of the PUGs listen to commands. You just can give basic commands like defend here, slowly advance, or retreat.. but it works, creating cool fights with other randomized groups. But against 4 mans.. not a chance in hell. Voice chat is ruling.. and if you have that and ORGANIZED teams with the new ECM toy there is not a chance in hell you can beat them.

I guess Ill go back to organized gaming.. because I feel like I dont want to play at all anymore because its THAT frustrating.

sturm

Edited by Sturmbringer, 10 December 2012 - 04:24 PM.

[Congzilla]

So what is the problem? 8 man premades were breaking the game and now 4 man premades are breaking the game? There are free voice chats available, people need to start using them and stop complaining.

[Trucker]

Actually it seems that sync dropping is ruining the PUG experience. It was great for the first couple of days after patch...not now we have the sync droppers running the same cheese builds they complained about in 8v8.

[Mr 144]

You're amazing 100:2 W/L was played in what time period? And how many on your team? It's probable, YOU were the one doing the 'stomping'. Phase 1 has made pugging insanely better. I Pug a LOT. If and when I group in 2-4 man, I use txt only. In 8-man, TS 'ears' only. Through every single stage of matchmaking, all the way back well into closed beta, I maintain a 45:55 W/L ratio. I was a HUGE proponent of matchmaking and 'puggers right' for a long time, but now I think it's just about right where it should be.

Mr 144

[Gaeb]

Shrug?

I probably win 1/3 to 1/2 my PUG games, and 2/3 to 3/4 my 4man games. I can pug in 10 minutes between meetings or before breakfast or during lunch or whenever I have a 10-30m window - so I do, and I don't worry too much about my W/L. Hell, if I was worried about my W/L, I would never have leveled my lights..... lol. Grow up! W/L is crap and nonsense without ELO and organized play.

[Sturmbringer]

I know both sides ya know. I did a lot of PUG stomping and made millions. I tried to win with PUGs and even if I kill 3 guys, in this game you cant win for your team alone. From my personal experience organized teams (4 and 8 mans) have a 99% win rate. And its so easy that its getting boring pretty fast. Its kill farming.. no challenge at all.

Maybe PUGing got better through the 4 man premades but when Im playing even 4 mans we still win. ALL THE TIME. This imbalance is, in my opinion a danger to this game.

P.S. GAEB: my posts arent about W/L ratings.. you misunderstand me

Edited by Sturmbringer, 10 December 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Gaeb]

Sturmbringer, on 10 December 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I know both sides ya know. I did a lot of PUG stomping and made millions. I tried to win with PUGs and even if I kill 3 guys, in this game you cant win for your team alone. From my personal experience organized teams (4 and 8 mans) have a 99% win rate. And its so easy that its getting boring pretty fast. Its kill farming.. no challenge at all.

Maybe PUGing got better through the 4 man premades but when Im playing even 4 mans we still win. ALL THE TIME. This imbalance is, in my opinion a danger to this game.

So come back when they institute real matchmaking? I play a lot of LOL, and the competition on my main vs my smurfs is hugely different. This game has no such system installed, so its just a crapshoot - and your W/L means nothing. Come back in 6 months.

[Redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 12 December 2012 - 01:14 PM.
Code of Conduct

[Sturmbringer]

GAEB I dont care about W/L I mentioned them to describe my point. Second Im no kid. Third your last sentence doesnt describe me at all.

[Taizan]

There is no "PUG" scene, its the default game mode for most players and yes about 8/10 fights suck out of various reasons (pug stomping, ECM un-awareness, completely new players, CTDs etc.).

I learned to go in with very low expectations and recommend everyone else should as well, sometimes things even work out and you get an interesting match and a nice surprise. Else wise I gave up caring about the other 7 guys and usually simply try to do my best with my wonky pings, test out a new build / mech or just go into a match out of boredom. Once you've played with 3 or more friends, a PUG match as lone wolf can never be as fun.

In very rare cases there is something that resembles a team effort, if I see that people try to work out a plan, follow commands or stick together and play as a team I enjoy falling in as well and only then PUG matches can deliver some fun.

[Gaeb]

Taizan, on 10 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

There is no "PUG" scene, its the default game mode for most players and yes about 8/10 fights suck out of various reasons (pug stomping, ECM un-awareness, completely new players, CTDs etc.).

I learned to go in with very low expectations and recommend everyone else should as well, sometimes things even work out and you get an interesting match and a nice surprise. Else wise I gave up caring about the other 7 guys and usually simply try to do my best with my wonky pings, test out a new build / mech or just go into a match out of boredom. Once you've played with 3 or more friends, a PUG match as lone wolf can never be as fun.

In very rare cases there is something that resembles a team effort, if I see that people try to work out a plan, follow commands or stick together and play as a team I enjoy falling in as well and only then PUG matches can deliver some fun.

Ayup. In short, don't go into a pug caring about your W/L rate, because the matchmaking system doesn't have any elo equivalent yet and you have no idea what you're going to get for a team. Use it to try out builds, develop reflexes, etc... but don't expect to win.

[Hellion]

Sturmbringer, on 10 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I know Im venting here but man, since I played in organised groups for a while and won 100 games vs 2 losses (real stat is around 251 wins and 70 losses now) I tried to check out the PUG scene again.. since I thought 8 group matchmaking is in and the ECM introduces new gamplay. I really thought PUGing could be better now.. but boy was I wrong:

My observations... 4 mans are still stomping PUGs like crazy. And while the PUGs slowly started to get better and increase their skill the ECM hit them pretty hard. I guess they dont know what these things do and how to counter them - no idea.

I must say 80% of the PUGs listen to commands. You just can give basic commands like defend here, slowly advance, or retreat.. but it works, creating cool fights with other randomized groups. But against 4 mans.. not a chance in hell. Voice chat is ruling.. and if you have that and ORGANIZED teams with the new ECM toy there is not a chance in hell you can beat them.

I guess Ill go back to organized gaming.. because I feel like I dont want to play at all anymore because its THAT frustrating.

sturm

Here's what I'm hearing right now sturm. Tell me if I'm wrong. PUG's suck because

A.) They don't always listen to me.
B.) 4 man groups can't be beat.
C.) losing makes my tummy hurt cause my whole life I've been told I'm special and unique and I'm slowing finding out I'm not.

Sturm you have to understand you can't win everyday all the time and be the automatic best no matter what. People don't know you, nor do they have to follow you. If you prove yourself enough times though and actually do have good tactics, maybe in time. People will actually care about your battle field tactics. Until than. Play, have fun, and know that its just a game.

Edited by Hellion, 10 December 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[Pr8Dator]

I play to have fun, not just to win and PUGS ARE A LOT OF FUN! LOL!!!! No need to robotically obey commands and inflate the ego of your "commander" (and get reprimanded over a game), no need to follow a fixed routine just to "win", play however you like and do whatever you want on the battlefield! Who cares about battlefield tactics? Who cares if we gets crushed under organized gangba*g? We play to stomp and we play to fire off as many rounds as we can before dying! That's the spirit of FREEDOM, that's the spirit of PUGGING!!!

PUGS FOREVER!!!!

Edited by Pr8Dator, 10 December 2012 - 05:19 PM.

[Alcatraz968]

There is a of free chatting software, not including the game has it's own (Tho it sucks).

If your dropping alone, then you for go any right to complain about how you lose. You are saying that you don't want to win, but want to play. You are missing a Key point of this game, Tactics ! An thus crippling your self. A come back is possible, but rare.

There will always be inherently good 4 man's that can carry a team.
Alone each player is good, but when put on the same server, they turn the tide. In there superior play, they have learned to play with others of there ability.

And some times you just get the 4 man premade that sucks nearly as much as a regular player. Then its any ones game. (Or who ever has the most cheesy builds on there team. "Shudders From Streak Ravens") .



I understand this is just a Rant "Sturmbringer", and i feel you bro.

I pugged to earn my first mech and hated every moment of it. Some players just are competitive and can't stand crippling them selfs. It's ok. Just stay on Teamspeak (Or what ever software you use) and play. It more fun, and you win more often.

Just learn to control your self alittle more. We all sometime or another get temped to rage on the forums, but just think for 5 seconds and see the pointlessness of it.

[Lefty Lucy]

Sturmbringer, on 10 December 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

I know both sides ya know. I did a lot of PUG stomping and made millions. I tried to win with PUGs and even if I kill 3 guys, in this game you cant win for your team alone. From my personal experience organized teams (4 and 8 mans) have a 99% win rate. And its so easy that its getting boring pretty fast. Its kill farming.. no challenge at all.

Maybe PUGing got better through the 4 man premades but when Im playing even 4 mans we still win. ALL THE TIME. This imbalance is, in my opinion a danger to this game.

P.S. GAEB: my posts arent about W/L ratings.. you misunderstand me

People are going to misinterpret what you're trying to say as "whining" because that's just what people do around here. I get what you're trying to say though. For being a team game, there is remarkably little in-game team-making functionality. In-game tools are what the 70% of players who never, ever even read the forums need to be able to fully experience what the game has to offer. It's pretty broken in general.

I suggest that you try to get your group to do 8 v 8. I've been doing it a *lot* since MMP2 hit, and it's great because when you go up against that team that's just a bit better than you, you learn a lot.

[PANZERBUNNY]

4 man will usually always stomp PUGs.

No magic fix will change this.

[SmoothCriminal]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

People are going to misinterpret what you're trying to say as "whining" because that's just what people do around here. I get what you're trying to say though. For being a team game, there is remarkably little in-game team-making functionality. In-game tools are what the 70% of players who never, ever even read the forums need to be able to fully experience what the game has to offer. It's pretty broken in general.

I suggest that you try to get your group to do 8 v 8. I've been doing it a *lot* since MMP2 hit, and it's great because when you go up against that team that's just a bit better than you, you learn a lot.

+1 to everything you've argued. The attitude around here is a bit premade friendly because hey, casual gamers wont ever visit forums like these.

The premade command tools are good, but they need more authority, and more of a reward strategy. In battlefield 3 you gain increased xp for following an order, so i dont see why such a process shouldnt be implemented/exacerbated here. Say 10xp/200cbills for co-ordinates, focus fire and the rest. Otherwise PUGs won't listen.

The more I play this game the more i feel like im being pushed towards premade groups (which I like the sound of, but not sure if I can endure the rage/ridicule my housemates will enforce should i start talking to my television...)

[Zylo]

I think this game needs the add a group marker so it is clear how many groups are on each side in a random match (yes, like that WoT group marker on the match starting screen).

I suspect the majority of matches probably don't have pre-made groups. I guess that would mean the pug players would need a new excuse for poor performance in a lost match if the match results screen showed there wasn't a pre-made group on the other side.

[Horned Bull]

Allowing synch drops is the cancer that is killing PUGS. 4 mans are hard to beat, yet sometimes you can do it (like if you get dropped with decent players). But when you get dropped against a full premade then there's nothing you can do except alt+f4

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

You do know that there are usually 4 other new guys teamed up with that group of 4 that get to enjoy a relatively free win, along with the fun of getting a few scavenge kills?

But, I think OP needs to wait for phase 3 to be implemented so that the best of the 4 man team will be paired up against higher skilled players and not just new guys in trials.

Likewise, new guys in trials should be almost guaranteed to player other new guys.

[Gaeb]

Korm, on 10 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Allowing synch drops is the cancer that is killing PUGS. 4 mans are hard to beat, yet sometimes you can do it (like if you get dropped with decent players). But when you get dropped against a full premade then there's nothing you can do except alt+f4

I do wish the devs would tweak this. They're just feeding Cbills to cowards. Potential fix; make it so that if you drop as a 4man you get a random 0-60 seconds added to your matchmaker time.