383 replies to this topic

[SteelPaladin]

J4ckInthebox, on 12 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I see where the problem is.

Crits in mwo don't work like in TT. when a shot crits, it does 3 times its normal damage.
a MG bullet deals 0.04 damage, a crit bullet deals 0.12 damage. Even if the MG's crit rate was of 100%, it would take roughly 85 bullets, roughly 8.5 seconds of fire.

Talk about a "crit-seeking" weapon.

No, that is not how crits work. Read the post that the devs made about it.

A crit can either be a x1 crit, a x2 crit, or a x3 crit, depending on the roll. A x1 crit does the weapon's damage to 1 randomly determined slot in that mech section. A x2 crit does the weapon's damage to 2 randomly determined slots in that mech's section (which MAY roll the same piece of equipment, or it may roll a different piece). A x3 crit, well see x2 crit and up the number to 3.

x2 and x3 crits have pretty low percentages, so the majority of crits are only doing the weapon's damage (0.04 in the case of an MG).

[Lonestar1771]

ITT: OP who is too stupid to know that he is stupid and Smart people proving that OP is stupid.

[Red squirrel]

J4ckInthebox, on 12 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I see where the problem is.

Crits in mwo don't work like in TT. when a shot crits, it does 3 times its normal damage.
a MG bullet deals 0.04 damage, a crit bullet deals 0.12 damage. Even if the MG's crit rate was of 100%, it would take roughly 85 bullets, roughly 8.5 seconds of fire to destroy a component.

If we take the critical rate to a theoretical 25% (it is probably not that high) it would take 340 bullets, more than 30 seconds of continuous fire to destroy a component.

Talk about a "crit-seeking" weapon.

Mhh and I was sure they did 0.02 damage. Which is in agreement with the 50 damage I did in this test game where I fired 3000 rounds at an AfK mech and inflicted 59 points of damage.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Lonestar1771, on 12 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

ITT: OP who is too stupid to know that he is stupid and Smart people proving that OP is stupid.

Thankfully you are hear to point that out.

[Lonestar1771]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Thankfully you are hear to point that out.

Yeah I am HERE to point out stupidity.

[shotokan5]

Call it different or not useful, however the noise and the refraction off the metal is a distraction. in battle distraction kills. therefore it is an effective weapon like a flame thrower in most cases makes no sense but try to see the enemy through the flames. Not effective I guess. put a machine gun and a flame thrower together with all the noise and confusion which they can cause it is and very effective weapon. I have seen Assaults turn around and move back because noise and confusion and lack of view. now if that is not effective what is? Also, I love the sound of the machine gun. The glow and sound of a flamer is great. just call me a romantic.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Lonestar1771, on 12 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Yeah I am HERE to point out stupidity.

OMG SOMEONE MISSPELLED A WORD ON THE INTERNET!

[Davers]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

We are going to get dozens of new and differing weapon systems over the next few years in this game, all of which will have unique abilities in their own right. Again, please tell me why we need to inflate the abilities of an anti-infantry weapon.

Oh, and by the way. It's not trolling just because you say it is. If you think not immediately agreeing with someone is trolling, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

It's really neat that in 3-4 years we will have new weapons to play with. But how about we have useful and fun weapons now?

[J4ckInthebox]

Quote

No, that is not how crits work. Read the post that the devs made about it.

A crit can either be a x1 crit, a x2 crit, or a x3 crit, depending on the roll. A x1 crit does the weapon's damage to 1 randomly determined slot in that mech section. A x2 crit does the weapon's damage to 2 randomly determined slots in that mech's section (which MAY roll the same piece of equipment, or it may roll a different piece). A x3 crit, well see x2 crit and up the number to 3.

x2 and x3 crits have pretty low percentages, so the majority of crits are only doing the weapon's damage (0.04 in the case of an MG).

Gee, that is even worse than i thought. the damage isn't even concentrated on a specific location !

The math needed to calculate the chance to destroy a component with a MG with that system is beyond me, but that is not pretty at all.

Edited by J4ckInthebox, 12 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Orkhepaj]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

I think I know what I'm talking about.

rofl
omg this guy is just amazing how egoistic he is

[Lonestar1771]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

OMG SOMEONE MISSPELLED A WORD ON THE INTERNET!

And let that be a lesson to you.

[Skyfaller]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

WHY?

How on earth do you explain a machine gun bullet doing "increased" critical damage over the plethora of weapons that are purpose-built to destroy battlemechs?

Furthermore, why is this needed?

Does a dedicated anti-infantry weapon really need to be given a special ability?

Why can't it be left in the condition it is right now, where logic and common sense dictates it should be: basically useless in armored warfare where we do not see infantry on the battlefield.

Seriously. It's just silly that they are doing to buff an anti-infantry weapon. There is no good reason other than some people think that, because it's there, it needs to be it's own special little flower.

P.S.- If they want to buff the damage a bit, I don't care. It's just silly they they would give it a nonsensical "crit buff."

Use some common sense.

Each mg weighs half a ton.
2000 rounds weigh one ton.

Not even WW2 machine guns mounted on ships or aircraft weigh that much so it's definitely not an anti infantry weapon nor even an anti vehicle weapon. To give you an idea, an m61 vulcan 20mm gatling weighs roughly 250kg.

One ton for 2 thousand bullets? That would roughly put it near the weight of two thousand 20mm cannon rounds.

So, it makes zero sense this being anti personnel nor anti vehicle weapon.

I think the devs should make it to be more like a specialized very high speed, armor piercing 50cal machine gun. Give it 2km range, twice the rate of fire than what it has now and make each gun take up 1/4th of a weapon slot (not crit slot) so you can put four per one ballistic weapon slot.

This would make the weapon quite effective only when used in large quantities and with an insane ammo load.

[Orkhepaj]

Lonestar1771, on 12 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

ITT: OP who is too stupid to know that he is stupid and Smart people proving that OP is stupid.

so true

[Scarlett Avignon]

SteelPaladin, on 12 December 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

No, that is not how crits work. Read the post that the devs made about it.

A crit can either be a x1 crit, a x2 crit, or a x3 crit, depending on the roll. A x1 crit does the weapon's damage to 1 randomly determined slot in that mech section. A x2 crit does the weapon's damage to 2 randomly determined slots in that mech's section (which MAY roll the same piece of equipment, or it may roll a different piece). A x3 crit, well see x2 crit and up the number to 3.

x2 and x3 crits have pretty low percentages, so the majority of crits are only doing the weapon's damage (0.04 in the case of an MG).

And if that's the case, I'm still fine with a damage buff (which will automatically improve it's crit performance.)

There just isn't a reason that a dedicated anti-infantry weapon would cause more damage to criticals than other weapons, which was my gripe.

[Red squirrel]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

And I have no problem with them buffing the damage of the weapon. I just think it flies in the face of all logic to give them some type of crit bonus over other weapons.

As far as the weapon's weight goes, remember that the weight of a gun includes mounting equipment, servo controls for targeting control, and ammunition feed systems. Most of the weapons in BT likely weigh far less by themselves. No, it's not an AK-47. In most BT lore, they state that most mech-mounted MG's are between .50 in to 20mm in caliber.

I guess in the end it all breaks down to - do we want this weapon in game or not.
It will always be a weak weapon only effectiv within 90m.
But why should it be useless. After all this realism talk (me included) I have to say
there is almost nothing about BT that - from a 2012 scientific point of view - is not complete BS.

So realistic or not we have this weapon in game. And I for one would also like to use it (what else to do with the CDA-3C?).
And for those that wont use it, why do you care? I mean firing a PPC is against all logic now noone wants it out of game.

Make MGs usefull - give them a chance - long live the Cicada-3C.




PS: I for one would not like to sit in a tank at which a 500kg gun is pointed....

[Lonestar1771]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

And if that's the case, I'm still fine with a damage buff (which will automatically improve it's crit performance.)

There just isn't a reason that a dedicated anti-infantry weapon would cause more damage to criticals than other weapons, which was my gripe.

Ffs IT IS NOT A DEDICATED INFANTRY WEAPON. Get it through your thick and empty skull already!

[LaserAngel]

shotokan5, on 12 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Call it different or not useful, however the noise and the refraction off the metal is a distraction. in battle distraction kills. therefore it is an effective weapon like a flame thrower in most cases makes no sense but try to see the enemy through the flames. Not effective I guess. put a machine gun and a flame thrower together with all the noise and confusion which they can cause it is and very effective weapon. I have seen Assaults turn around and move back because noise and confusion and lack of view. now if that is not effective what is? Also, I love the sound of the machine gun. The glow and sound of a flamer is great. just call me a romantic.

Oh great the One Man Band build. I was chased by Flamer Commandos for nearly an entire game. We soundly won that match. Then again they were not shooting at my cockpit window.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Skyfaller, on 12 December 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Use some common sense.

Each mg weighs half a ton.
2000 rounds weigh one ton.

Not even WW2 machine guns mounted on ships or aircraft weigh that much so it's definitely not an anti infantry weapon nor even an anti vehicle weapon. To give you an idea, an m61 vulcan 20mm gatling weighs roughly 250kg.

One ton for 2 thousand bullets? That would roughly put it near the weight of two thousand 20mm cannon rounds.

So, it makes zero sense this being anti personnel nor anti vehicle weapon.

I think the devs should make it to be more like a specialized very high speed, armor piercing 50cal machine gun. Give it 2km range, twice the rate of fire than what it has now and make each gun take up 1/4th of a weapon slot (not crit slot) so you can put four per one ballistic weapon slot.

This would make the weapon quite effective only when used in large quantities and with an insane ammo load.

Do you think that ammunition drums and feeds weigh nothing?

[Red squirrel]

Skyfaller, on 12 December 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Use some common sense.

Each mg weighs half a ton.
2000 rounds weigh one ton.

Not even WW2 machine guns mounted on ships or aircraft weigh that much so it's definitely not an anti infantry weapon nor even an anti vehicle weapon. To give you an idea, an m61 vulcan 20mm gatling weighs roughly 250kg.

One ton for 2 thousand bullets? That would roughly put it near the weight of two thousand 20mm cannon rounds.

So, it makes zero sense this being anti personnel nor anti vehicle weapon.

I think the devs should make it to be more like a specialized very high speed, armor piercing 50cal machine gun. Give it 2km range, twice the rate of fire than what it has now and make each gun take up 1/4th of a weapon slot (not crit slot) so you can put four per one ballistic weapon slot.

This would make the weapon quite effective only when used in large quantities and with an insane ammo load.

Just to correct you:

The M61 has a weight of 250 pounds which is roughly half of what you wrote.
Making your argument that it is an anti vcehicle gun even stronger.

But then - no just no. The BT MG has a range of 90m.
We already have long range weapons. Give it the same DPS as an AC2 and we are fine.
Maybe even half of that DPS would be enough. A nice short range weapon.


PS: So lets assume half of the MG is just whatever and the other half is the actual weapon. This would let us with two Vulcans.......just as an example.....but then the Vulcan is more for rapid fire, so we really should use another weapon as a comparison.
The Anzio 20mm rifle for example weights about 50kg. So we can fit 5 of those.

Edited by Red squirrel, 12 December 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[Pyrrho]

Lonestar1771, on 12 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Ffs IT IS NOT A DEDICATED INFANTRY WEAPON. Get it through your thick and empty skull already!

OP may subscribe to the idea that saying things over and over again makes them more truthful.